Would getting student loans be ok on DR?

[zersha]

Or would I be kicked off the program.

I would like to go back to school - both for my own sanity, sense of accomplishment, and to eventually start working after my kids are older. I don't say 'back to work' because I've never actually had a real career, just some jobs before I got married.

I currently have almost enough credits to finish my associates degree. I would like to either get a 2 year engineering technician degree, or go all the way and get my 4 yr engineering degree.

Would this go completely against Dave Ramsey? We are currently on bs1. Since I am a sahm, and dh doesn't make a huge amount, there would be no money in our budget to pay for childcare for my youngest while I attend school. I would probably get enough grants to cover most of tuition & books, but I would need to borrow some for childcare.

Would that be ok? If I don't finish my degree, I would most likely be trapped in very low wage jobs since I've been at home so long.

[Purple*Lotus]

That is a good question!

I don't know how he feels about it, honestly. However, I am the one who adds people to the list and keeps track of the DR thread, and I wouldn't boot you out So you should be safe

I do think the first step would be to see what you qualify for in terms of aid and grants. If you have children, you might get some financial aid that you don't have to pay back.

A big thing I learned from my own years of student loans is not to borrow more than you need. I have fond memories of getting the rest of the SL money and going on huge shopping sprees. Now that is not something Dave would be down with. :

I think education is important. It is something no one can take away from you.

[zersha]

I know I would get at at least a pell grant, and maybe another one if funds are available. Since finishing my assoc. degree would be at a community college, I know it would cover tuition & maybe most of the books. We have 3 children, and I actually filled out a fafsa last year and this year, (but I didn't go last year obviously ). Our expected family contribution is $0, so I can get all the aid available.

I could try to cram all my classes into the morning, but if I'm going for engineering, I know I'll also need study time. I tried to take one calculus class last year that we just paid for ourselves. Luckily it was an audit because I had already taken it 10 yrs ago, and just needed the review. I would almost cry when trying to do homework because no one would help take care of my (then) 1 yo. My mom would watch her during the class, but if I said I needed an hour to study afterwards, she would get really mad. So I would sit at the kitchen table trying to get homework done with my dd crying and wanting attention. It was just too much, so I never even finished the course. But since it was an audit it didn't hurt me.

So I know I defintaly need someone reliable to watch my dd. Paid childcare somewhere, not my mom. Dh can't take care of her at night while I study because, well, he's not good with kids, and he just got a promotion and will more than likely need to be putting in more overtime.

I know I definately need to do something for myself, and not have this 'trapped' feeling. But I don't want to replace it with being trapped by debt either.

[zersha]

Originally Posted by ~*Jaime

That is a good question!



A big thing I learned from my own years of student loans is not to borrow more than you need. I have fond memories of getting the rest of the SL money and going on huge shopping sprees. Now that is not something Dave would be down with. :

Ha Ha... I just wanted to add that I also have these memories of spending sprees with extra SL money. A TV is sitting in my bedroom that I bought. With interest, that is probably one expensive TV.

[Purple*Lotus]

My University has a early childhood developent degree, so they actually have a day care center on campus for staff and students to take advantage of at a low cost. The students in the classes are supervised by professionals. It works well because the students are learning and earning their degree and the childcare is cheaper for students and staff. So you might see if your college has anything like that as an option.

[phathui5]

My guess, after listening to the radio show for a while and reading his books, is that Dave would say not to take on more college expenses than you could pay for or get aid to cover.

[Purple*Lotus]

That sounds right. It might take longer, but you wouldn't be in debt, at least.

[JackieR]

I don't know whether or not DR would be down with investing in your own education - my sneaking suspicion is that he'd say save up for the classes and then take them when you can pay for them out of pocket...but that's just a guess! I know DR considers large student loans in a different league of consumer debt than credit cards, but I don't know how he views it overall.

That said, DR is not the be-all-end-all of wise financial decision-making. If you need more education to put yourself in a well-paying job, investing in your education through small student loans on top of the grants you receive is a wise choice. My advice: 1) don't borrow more than you need (a.k.a. heed Jaime's advice) and 2) commit to finishing the degree you're borrowing for so that you actually can get the better paying job to pay off the loan when you're finished.

Best wishes, whatever you decide.

[zersha]

I'm already 34, so I wouldn't really want to wait a whole lot longer to get started on my degree.

So I guess I'll just take out what I need for childcare. It would be worth it for more than just having income potential. I've been at home for a long time. And while I love it, I also sometimes feel that I haven't done all that I can. When I was preparing for the tests to be able to get into calculus again last year, I really felt great. I love math, and I love that I was able to pass all the tests even after all that time. Laundry, dishes, and cleaning up puke just isn't doing it for me (my kids have been sick the past week). And even though I love them, and value the time I've been home with them, I am starting to feel like I am shortchanging myself.

My income potential would be either equal to dh's, or about double, depending on which way I go. (no, dh could never be a sahd, like I said, he's very bad with the kids for anything other than the good times or short periods).

And I don't think we could save up the cost of daycare or extra expenses we need for awhile. Like I said, I'm getting old, and don't want to start an engineering career when I'm 43 or older.

I guess this is both a financial question, and a personal growth question.

[mightymoo]

Well, I'm not a DR person, but I think you shouldn't make your decision on whether DR would approve but rather whether it would be right for you.

You would be borrowing money to acquire education. If you are doing this in order to earn more income and get a better salary later, this is an investment, and it needs to be looked at in terms of an investment. So you need to look at how much you are going to borrow, then when are you going to get a return on that investment. So, if you borrow $10K, but after graduating will get a job that will be $20K a year better htan you make now, you'll pay back the loan quickly, etc. If you borrow $10K and make only a little more, it will take a lot longer.

If on the other hand, you mostly are doing it for yourself, for your desire to learn or a much more ambiguous and unsure to work sometime, I would put it more in the category of entertainment and extras, like a new TV or a vacation. More wholesome perhaps, but not with any expectation of future return.

If its the former, I could definitely see borrowing to make it happen. I would only borrow money for an education I had determined was going to be used to earn more money later. If you are sure you will return to work and are sure of when and what you'll be doing if you get this associate's degree and roughly how much you'll make as opposed to getting a job without one, and that the job market for this profession is reasonable. I'm not talking clairvoyance, just that if I'd done my homework and had a plan was reasonable, I could see borrowing for it. Certainly something could happen later to change the plan, which we'd deal with, but I would want a plan in place.

If its the latter, not sure of when or if you'll return to work, not really doing it because it will advance you in a career and make more money, I would not borrow for it. I would hate to find myself in a position where I had borrowed money for something I didn't even know I was going to use. I'm guessing DR wouldn't approve in this case for sure.

Just my thoughts! Good luck! I've really enjoyed going back to school myself.

[MommyErin]

Originally Posted by mightymoo

Well, I'm not a DR person, but I think you shouldn't make your decision on whether DR would approve but rather whether it would be right for you.

:

I'm all for getting out of debt and spending wisely and all that but Moo is right!

[zersha]

Originally Posted by mightymoo

Well, I'm not a DR person, but I think you shouldn't make your decision on whether DR would approve but rather whether it would be right for you.

You would be borrowing money to acquire education. If you are doing this in order to earn more income and get a better salary later, this is an investment, and it needs to be looked at in terms of an investment. So you need to look at how much you are going to borrow, then when are you going to get a return on that investment. So, if you borrow $10K, but after graduating will get a job that will be $20K a year better htan you make now, you'll pay back the loan quickly, etc. If you borrow $10K and make only a little more, it will take a lot longer.

If on the other hand, you mostly are doing it for yourself, for your desire to learn or a much more ambiguous and unsure to work sometime, I would put it more in the category of entertainment and extras, like a new TV or a vacation. More wholesome perhaps, but not with any expectation of future return.

If its the former, I could definitely see borrowing to make it happen. I would only borrow money for an education I had determined was going to be used to earn more money later. If you are sure you will return to work and are sure of when and what you'll be doing if you get this associate's degree and roughly how much you'll make as opposed to getting a job without one, and that the job market for this profession is reasonable. I'm not talking clairvoyance, just that if I'd done my homework and had a plan was reasonable, I could see borrowing for it. Certainly something could happen later to change the plan, which we'd deal with, but I would want a plan in place.

If its the latter, not sure of when or if you'll return to work, not really doing it because it will advance you in a career and make more money, I would not borrow for it. I would hate to find myself in a position where I had borrowed money for something I didn't even know I was going to use. I'm guessing DR wouldn't approve in this case for sure.

Just my thoughts! Good luck! I've really enjoyed going back to school myself.

Well, I would be going from $0 since I'm currently a sahm with no real previous job experience, to a potential salary of $25K-$50K starting wage. I doubt I would have very good job prospects without a degree.

So I guess I am starting to see it as more of an investment, not a huge debt.

[krisnic]

Actually I know he isn't okay with it. I listened to his book on tape and got really mad when he said not to take out student loans. I agree with most of what he says, but when it comes to education I'm not going to put it off to save the money for it. I also see it as an investment.

[JackieR]

Student loans are cheap debt, too. If you've got to go into debt, SL's really aren't a big deal. Have you thought of just starting out with the Associate's degree, working for a while, and seeing how much you like the work before going on to the Bachelor's? It'd be a less expensive option at first and perhaps you could pay for going back to get your B.S.E. out of pocket after working for a while...or perhaps your employer would have education benefits where they'd pay for some or all of your classes.

[zersha]

It looks like I may be able to get started with school with no or very low loans.

I just heard the senate has passed the rebate bill, so it looks like we'll get $1200. That should cover childcare for the fall semester. Assuming we get it by then. And this summer I think I am going to just take one fairly easy required online class so I won't need childcare.

Then I just have to figure out the spring semester. Our tax return would more than cover it, but we probably wouldn't get it until February. So I would either have to figure out someway to pay for it for that first month, or take out a little bit of either a perkins loan or sub. stafford.

So maybe I CAN go to school and still follow the DR plan.

[cdahlgrd]

You could also find another mom at school that you could trade a little childcare with. There were always lots of single moms trying to get their degree and needed some help with childcare.

[PrettyBird]

Originally Posted by mightymoo

Well, I'm not a DR person, but I think you shouldn't make your decision on whether DR would approve but rather whether it would be right for you.

Exactly. No one person is the end all be all of financial advice. Student loans can be a great tool if used wisely. In your case, it sounds like you wouldn't have to take out much but it would greatly increase your earning potential.

[Piglet68]

ITA with mommymoo.

It's easy to sit on the "I don't have a degree" side of the fence and think the grass is going to be much greener when you get one. But many, many students think that, borrow tons of money, and find out at the end of it all that life isn't as easy as they thought, even with a degree.

Honestly, I would save first and use all the free grants you can get. Do it a bit at a time. Haven't so many of us found that when you do things that way unexpected bonuses come along? You yourself mentioned the $1200 you got. Others in the many threads here find the same thing. You could sell things on eBay or Craigslist, you could work a part time job in the evenings. Save up and do your credits a bit at a time.

34 is not that old, lol. If you have to wait another two years to start but can pay your own way through school you'd be much better off.

JMHO.

[Ellien C]

Originally Posted by zersha

Dh can't take care of her at night while I study because, well, he's not good with kids, and he just got a promotion and will more than likely need to be putting in more overtime.

you know what? I wasn't good with kids before I had mine and to honest, I'm still not great. But you learn to be "good with kids" simply by being around children. If you are going back to school, I think you deserve the support of your family, especially DH. He's just going to have to step up to the plate here. He is the child's father. It works well for many people to leave the house to study and let DH find his own way with his child. Don't try to advise him what to do or how to do.

Students loans are there for a reason. To provide you with money NOW that you will earn back later. If you wait until later, you've lost all those years of earning potential. I think you'll be fine to use them responsibly. That's what they are there for.

[zersha]

Originally Posted by Piglet68

ITA with mommymoo.

It's easy to sit on the "I don't have a degree" side of the fence and think the grass is going to be much greener when you get one. But many, many students think that, borrow tons of money, and find out at the end of it all that life isn't as easy as they thought, even with a degree.

Honestly, I would save first and use all the free grants you can get. Do it a bit at a time. Haven't so many of us found that when you do things that way unexpected bonuses come along? You yourself mentioned the $1200 you got. Others in the many threads here find the same thing. You could sell things on eBay or Craigslist, you could work a part time job in the evenings. Save up and do your credits a bit at a time.

34 is not that old, lol. If you have to wait another two years to start but can pay your own way through school you'd be much better off.

JMHO.

Selling things isn't an option. We live very simply, and don't really have anything extra that isn't used or loved. Hand me down furniture and electronic, only the clothes that we wear regularily (my section of the closet takes up no more than 18", and that's hung with space in between), no fancy gadgets, knick knacks, movies, etc.

And working in the evenings is DEFINATELY not an option. Dh could not take care of the kids. The stress of how that would go would not be worth a degree.

Anyway, I think I have pretty much decided on the 2 yr degree. It would give me the education & earning potential I would like, without having to pay for so many years of college. I never planned on borrowing TONS of money- just enough to pay for childcare. I don't even know how much that would cost. I could try to cram all my classes together so I only need pt childcare.

And I do honestly think I need a degree, or I won't even consider entering the workforce. If it's not something I enjoy and that challenges me, it's not worth it. I'm not wanting to start working because we can't afford to live otherwise, it's mostly just to make our situation even better. When I used to do childcare, I had all these parents that worked at lousy jobs for these big businesses. They didn't need degrees, but got paid fairly well. They were treated like crap though. They couldn't even leave to pick up their sick child without getting a 'mark' against them. They'd get a few and be fired. I know this field would be more family friendly. Both my uncles work an engineering firm, and one of the former parents I used to provide childcare for works for them also. If the mom had to work late, dad would come get their son and take him back with him to work. I need the type of job where I'm treated with respect and they value their employee's families.