Question about Hib shot - Page 2

[carriebft]

The vaccine does NOTHING to lower your chances of getting Hib.

HIb is an acronym for the term: Hemophilus Influenza - B.

The vaccine reduces the rates of Hemophilus Influenza - B.

My chances of getting Hemophilus Influenza - B are lower because of the vaccine.


Note I am talking about Hemophilus Influenza - B.




So, I have said nothing about over all Hemophilus Influenzae infections of different serotypes. I am simply saying that the vaccine has brought the B numbers down (what HIB stands for), and i got this vaccine for them...or will...to protect against Hemophilus Influenza - B.

[cloak]

My bad, you are correct. Take the "b" off the "Hib" in my posts. The logic is still the same. Hib has gone down. HI has stayed the same. No point in getting this vax.

[carriebft]

Originally Posted by cloak

My bad, you are correct. Take the "b" off the "Hib" in my posts. The logic is still the same. Hib has gone down. HI has stayed the same. No point in getting this vax.

Type B is different than the other types and causes different symptoms and issues. Thus, we can't conclude it is illogical just from saying tpye A is ont he rise because we have ousted B.

What are the effects of A? what is its virulence? What problems does it cause?

Is it better to have less B and risk having more A? (or C, d, e or f?-- i think they end at F)

that's a whole 'nother debate in and of itself. (IMO)


(and, obviously, it is an issue for the OP to look into- serotype replacement)

[attachedmamaof3]

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/en...indexed=google

The incidence of Hib meningitis decreased 69% during the 1-year period after initiation of Hib immunization (from 2.62 to 0.81 cases/100,000 person-years; P<.001). In contrast, the incidence for H. influenzae type a meningitis increased 8-fold.

Therefore, Hib immunization contributed to an increased risk for H. influenzae type a meningitis through selection of circulating H. influenzae type a clones

Just one example.

[delphiniumpansy]

Carrie did a good job of outlining information on the vaccine. VAERS is self reported and I don't give that much time. I mean, anyone could report anything so who knows how true or false it really is.

My babies got this one as I think it is an important one to get.

If I were only going to one at 6 mos I would do dtap as pertussis is common and on the rise whereas Hib is not so common anymore. Dtap would be the one I would choose over all the rest for that reason.

[carriebft]

Originally Posted by delphiniumpansy

Carrie did a good job of outlining information on the vaccine. VAERS is self reported and I don't give that much time. I mean, anyone could report anything so who knows how true or false it really is.

My babies got this one as I think it is an important one to get.

If I were only going to one at 6 mos I would do dtap as pertussis is common and on the rise whereas Hib is not so common anymore. Dtap would be the one I would choose over all the rest for that reason.

I do agree with this. If you are ONLY looking to get one vaccine at 6 months and only one (and do want the DTaP at some point) that would probably be a better bet (as in, there's more of a chance your babe would be exposed to the disease the vaccine is meant to help prevent/lessen severity of- in the case of DTaP)


BUt, of course, it would also depend on your risk assessment between Hib and pertussis as well as how you feel about those diseases.

[mamakay]

Originally Posted by carriebft

Type B is different than the other types and causes different symptoms and issues. Thus, we can't conclude it is illogical just from saying tpye A is ont he rise because we have ousted B.

What are the effects of A? what is its virulence? What problems does it cause?

Is it better to have less B and risk having more A? (or C, d, e or f?-- i think they end at F)

that's a whole 'nother debate in and of itself. (IMO)


(and, obviously, it is an issue for the OP to look into- serotype replacement)

Just in case anyone cares...

HiA is almost identicle to HiB, except it doesn't do epiglotittis. HiF is a lot more rare, but it does cause epiglotittis. (but not often, because of it's rareness...it doesn't appear to be a good colonizer, I guess).

Most of the increase in "invasive Hi disease" has been with the nontypeable strains. They cause pneumonia and meningitis (and the "lesser" forms of disease not considered "invasive", like ear infections).

What it's looking like to me is that there will always be a dominant colonizer, and the factors that make a bacteria a great colonizer also has the "side effect" of things going too far sometimes, resulting in invasive disease.
For example, in our nose and throat, there's a constant turn-over of cells, and a "good colonizer" has the ability to dig in deep into that tissue to keep from getting shed off .
BUT...while 99.9% of the time that's not a problem, that .1% of the time "being able to dig in deep into the local mucosa" results in bacteremia when everything goes just wrong, which will sometimes turn into meningitis.
Causing invasive disease doesn't benefit the bacteria at all...it's just a side effect of being THE great colonizer.
But any time you remove one dominant species, the selective pressure is on for something else to learn all the same old tricks.

Net benefit to snipering them off one serotype at a time via vaccines = zero.

It's evolution in action and it happens amazingly fast for these little boogers.

[rredhead]

This is really interesting. The Hib is the only shot we've done. We started at 7 months, and spaced them 2-3 months apart (so 7, 9, 12). I chose it because of the information in the book What Your Doctor May Not Tell You About Children's Vaccines" and because it was the only disease that we felt was a real threat to children under 2 years.
I wouldn't do DTaP because it's a multi-vax, it's highly reactive, and the pertussis part is only 59-80% effective. (I recently researched this for a friend. If you want the link to the %, I'll find that.)

[jamamo]

Originally Posted by attachedmamaof3

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/en...indexed=google

The incidence of Hib meningitis decreased 69% during the 1-year period after initiation of Hib immunization (from 2.62 to 0.81 cases/100,000 person-years; P<.001). In contrast, the incidence for H. influenzae type a meningitis increased 8-fold.

Therefore, Hib immunization contributed to an increased risk for H. influenzae type a meningitis through selection of circulating H. influenzae type a clones

Just one example.

But, it's important to look at some of the fine print also. This is the part you left out of your quote: "In contrast, the incidence for H. influenzae type a meningitis increased 8-fold (from 0.02 to 0.16 cases/100,000 person-years; P=.008). ....The risk attributable to serotype replacement is small in comparison to the large reduction in Hib meningitis due to immunization."

You have to look at the statistics. Hib meningitis decreased from 2.62 to 0.81 per 100,000. Hia meningitis increased from 0.02 to 0.16 per 100,000. So, yes, Hia increased, but it's still 5 times less common than Hib. And, even after the 8 fold increase, it's still 16 times less common than Hib was before vaccination began. Adding it all together, there was still a net reduction in Hi meningitis from these 2 strains.

I think it is something to keep an eye on, and serotype replacement is important. But, IMO, it's not a reason to say the vaccine is worthless.

It's kind of like smoking. Quitting smoking will greatly reduce your risk of lung cancer, but it might cause you to gain weight which increases risk for diabetes. Should we say quitting smoking is worthless then? I think most people would say no.

[mamakay]

Adding it all together, there was still a net reduction in Hi meningitis from these 2 strains.

That's just Hia, though. It's NTHi that's really exploded. When you looks at all Hi, we're back to where we were in 1991, basically. No real net reduction.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17516405

In addition to the proportional increase in cases of non-type b Haemophilus influenzae disease in the post-H. influenzae type b vaccine era, the incidence of invasive H. influenzae disease was found to be approaching the rates of H. influenzae type b disease that were documented in the prevaccine period. Fifty-six percent of invasive disease now occurs in individuals aged >10 years.

And then there are inter-species competitions, as well...s. pneumo and h. influenzae compete for space,for example. So to see the whole picture of what all has happened, you need to follow specific health-realted endpoints, like "bacterial meningitis".

[attachedmamaof3]

Like here:

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science...939e4d28a79c81

Acute bacterial meningitis remains a significant cause of morbidity and mortality in the United States. It now appears that the microbiologic epidemiology of this potentially devastating disease is changing. We have seen a decrease in the incidence of Haemophilus influenzae meningitis and the emergence of high-level penicillin resistance in Streptococcus pneumoniae –related disease.

[AnyMama]

for what it's worth, epiglotitis, while scary, is not a-symptomatic. I know from experience. My oldest daughter was making this wheezing/whistling sound one day whenever she took a breath. It seemed to get worse over the course of a few hours. I called her doctor about it because I thought maybe it was asthma. He told me to bring her right over and he listened to her and said it was coming from her upper airway not her lungs. He then called the ER and spoke to the doctor on duty explained what was happening, that we were non-vax, that he was not to give us a hard time about it and that we would be coming right over.

It was not epiglotitis in the end. Turned out just to be croup, but that whistling/wheezing sound is symptom you can watch for. I informed myself about the symptoms of the vax preventable illnesses, because they're treatable. If you see a symptom, bring the child in. The fact that I did this was one of the major trust building factors with our doctor over the non/delayed vax issue.

The risk for SIDS is not gone at 6 months, and SIDS is associated with this vax. Not to mention that you only need 1 shot if given after age 15 months (or if you had it at 2 months, you'll only need the 2nd booster). I'd wait. We gave it at age 3, it was not high priority for me. We might let it be the first shot at age 2 for dd2. Not sure, I generally consult with our ped about which one to give based on what's going around and how the girls are doing. Neither of my children had a vax before age 2.

[parkermgg]

I thought HIB was a problem for mostly the under 2 crowd? My ped won't even give it after age 2 regardless of whether they've had it before.

[EviesMom]

I wanted to point out that the schedule usually includes 4 shots if started at 2 months old, but just 1 if done at 15 months old or later.

Also, HiB used to be more common, which I think is why its talked about in the Cave book. However, its quite rare now.

[sheilajolene]

DS' reaction to Hib.

Ds got one dose of Hib at 9 months and he is now 12 months (that was the first, and so far, last, vax he's had ever). Obviously I was doing it later so he didn't have to get as many doses. The reaction he had was really horrible. He got the vax around 2pm. At approximately, 5pm, the screaming started. Not just crying, but hysterical screeching as though someone was really hurting him. It was absolutely horrible. I did everything I could to soothe him. He wouldn't nurse, he didn't want a warm bath, tylenol didn't help, and he threw up repeatedly from being so upset. That went on for about 36 hours. He would only sleep if he was so exhausted that he couldn't stay awake screaming. I have never experienced anything so horrible in my life. I called the doc several times during that, and they all just kept saying that this was odd because they've never heard of such a reaction.

[momtokev]

Thought I would add that, our DS had Hib and Prevnar at the same visit the other day, around 3.5 months, and his reaction was horrible. Can't really say if it was the Hib or Prevnar, or the combination of both, but I am seriously doubting giving either of them again. Similar reactions as described above - SCREAMING until falling asleep from the exhaustion of all that screaming, threw up at the doctor's office right after the shots, inconsolable for the day and then the next day slept like all day. Now he is also experiencing some hard-to-describe arm weakness. I am very afraid of meningitis but don't know how I could give these shots again considering his reaction.

[NewMom0208]

My question is, besides what is the risk of getting HiB, what is the prognosis if a child gets it, how risky it it, how is it treated.
Does it require hospitalization? Are there alternative treatment such as herbal and homeopathics
Also, how is it contracted, does the virus exists in the air?

I ask because I learned how to take care of a child with whooping cough (not nice) since I am willing to do it for the three weeks it lasts, I am not vaccinating my child against it. If he gets it, I'll help him get thorugh it.

But how about HiB?

My child is three months old, under the care of a nanny at her home. Not vaccines yet.

[mamakay]

Ok...here are the basics:

1) Hib is a bacteria that pre-vaccine, people often were colonized with asymptomatically, just like the stuff we're colonized with right now.
2)every once in a while, something goes "wrong" and the bacteria we're colonized with turns into a "bacterial infection", like an ear infection or a sinus infection, etc
3) even more rarely, people get a really really BAD bacterial infection that needs antibiotics.
4) and very very rarely, someone gets a bacterial infection that kills them before there's time to seek medical care.

That goes for Hib, pneumomococcus (the bacteria Prevnar are for) and a bunch of other bacteria we don't have vaccines for. The bacteria are all a little different in how they "act" depending on the species, but that's the nuts and bolts for most of them.

[NewMom0208]

I am still having such a hard time making a decision. while my son didn't have to start day care after all, I had to put him under the care of a nany at her home. so he is exposed to that family germs, she has kids in school that could bring a decease.

Also, I am having a terrible time producing milk, so he drinks 28 oz per day out of which only 2-3 oz are breast milk, the rest is formula. (I am under the care of a lactation consultant but nothing so far)

I lean towards non vaccinating, but I am terrified of him getting HIB.
Can any of you share your experience with a non vax kid that got it?
I see it is not very commom, but should he get it, how bad can it be and what happens from the long term perspective?

The mom of a friend of mine got meningitis and almost died!

IF I get the vaccine I think it will be after he is at least 6mo, he is 3mo right now and I would need one that doesn't have aluminum, mercury and such.
I'll pray I make the right decision.

This really sucks!

[hollytheteacher]

Originally Posted by NewMom0208

I am still having such a hard time making a decision. while my son didn't have to start day care after all, I had to put him under the care of a nany at her home. so he is exposed to that family germs, she has kids in school that could bring a decease.

Also, I am having a terrible time producing milk, so he drinks 28 oz per day out of which only 2-3 oz are breast milk, the rest is formula. (I am under the care of a lactation consultant but nothing so far)

I lean towards non vaccinating, but I am terrified of him getting HIB.
Can any of you share your experience with a non vax kid that got it?
I see it is not very commom, but should he get it, how bad can it be and what happens from the long term perspective?

The mom of a friend of mine got meningitis and almost died!

IF I get the vaccine I think it will be after he is at least 6mo, he is 3mo right now and I would need one that doesn't have aluminum, mercury and such.
I'll pray I make the right decision.

This really sucks!

Hi : I'm the OP. I asked that question a while back and actually my DS just got his second dose of the HIB vaccine today! He is 9 months old...so he got his first dose at 2 months (he got all the first round of shots before i had time to research and his first ped guilted me into doing all of them) and just got his second dose today (and the prevnar vax but that was it). Just wanted to let you know that he is doing great! He cried for all of 3 minutes, started nursing and smiled like 2 seconds after that and has been his normal self all day. Not trying to say you SHOULD get the vax or SHOULD NOT, but just wanted to give you my experience so you don't only hear the negative stories.

We decided to go ahead and finish doing the HIB and Prevnar (so one more Hib shot at 18 mo i think and 2 more prevnars) and that is all we are doing for vaxes so far.

We'll let him get hep B when he's a teen if interested and will consider MMR but not til he's much older. We decided against dtap, polio, and varicella completely (oh and we don't do flu shots either). Nice to meet you