I think dd needs to be evaluated, today she was told the devil is in her

[GooeyRN]

I always knew something was "off" about dd. She is 27 months old now. She is extremely high needs, was colicy, has eating issues (she still doesn't really eat solid food) she refused to nurse so I EP'd for her, sleeping issues, (still far from sleeping through the night) seems hyperactive, does not listen for squat, and is an overall "difficult" child. We used to have to hold and walk her all day long until she was 15 months old or she would just scream. She is physically perfectly healthy. She has issues where she can't stand to be dirty at all, her socks have to be on just so when it comes to the seams, and stuff like that.

She is very sensitive, she tells me to pick up the baby as soon as he cries, gets upset when someone gets a boo-boo, and is very caring and lovable towards others. She will get very upset if she see's someone wearing a band-aid. If I am not smiling and happy and look sad, she gets upset and asks me whats wrong. She likes to interact with all people. She is not violent on purpose, but she accidently gets a little rough with the baby, but its not intended.

She does not "behave" at all. She is extremely difficult, loud and can't stay in the pew in church. People always joke about her behavior. But today someone jokingly said the devil is in her and she can see the devil coming out.

I know I need to get her evaluated, but I can't bring myself to do it. Does anyone here know what possible diagnosis she may be given?

[sbgrace]

You mention things which sound sensory in nature. You might do looking into sensory integration. But the being still in church thing....sounds like a little girl with energy to me. Some kids with lots of energy might have hyperactivity issues but most are just young kids. I've got a kiddo who is so quite and still in church. Another who certainly isn't. No other kids their age are well behaved in church either. I think my quiet one is the more unusual though really it is just that every kid is different.

If someone said that about my son (I get it was meant as a joke) it would bother me a great deal. Particularly if he knew what the devil meant and might absorb that information in a way different than intended. I can't imagine that as a joke in any situation at all let alone in front of a child.

But a lot of what you mention may just be temperment and age. Outside of that maybe sensory issues. My son until very recently really didn't get the concept of not being loud. He still blurts things out in church. Does she behave at home? If you find her to be difficult to manage in discipline I'd want to look into finding things that work with her. But diagnosis wise...sensory and being a kid.

[GooeyRN]

no, she doesn't behave at home, at all. Its very rare she does what she is asked to do/not do. She understands everything we say and is quite verbal, so its not that. She just chooses not to listen, ever. We have to put her on one of those backpack leashes out of the house, wear her, or put her in a stroller. She wont stay anywhere near us or hold our hand. She just takes off. I do think she has a lot of sensory issues. She just got very upset b/c dh just drug in a bit of snow and mud in the house.

[GooeyRN]

About the church issue...

I do see a lot of toddlers misbehave. But never have I saw one misbehave as bad as my dd in church. I get comments about her behavior (or lack there of) every week, even sometimes from the priest. The priest is one of 8 kids, so he is familiar with normal kid behavior. he is never nasty about her behavior, but does make jokes about it. Even when she is fully rested she is like this. People tell me they feel sorry for me. Other moms at play groups say they feel sorry for me. There is no "controlling" her whatsoever.

[LynnS6]

I agree with looking into sensory stuff. A lot of what you've posted is a hallmark for sensory processing issues -- not eating solids, can't stand to be dirty, issues with socks, sitting still, and sleeping can all be part of sensory issues.

The question that no one here can answer is whether those sensory issues are part of larger issues, or whether they're isolated.

I would recommend the books:
Sensational Kids
The Out of Sync Child
Raising A Sensory Smart Child

This website is a good place to start too:
http://www.sinetwork.org/home.html

[FancyD]

What about allergies? A friend told me that when she was little, her whole body 'itched', and she was very active. Not to the degree you're describing, with your daughter, though. Turned out she had multiple allergies/celiac/gut issues.

Have you talked to her pede about your concerns?

[mariaz]

My son has Sensory Integration disorderand he acts a lot like your dd. He has issues on both sides of the spectrum--he is hypersensitive to noise and lights but but understimulated with the proprioceptive (pressure) and vestibular (balance).

I would definitely check out The Out Of Sync Child.

[sbgrace]

What types of discipline methods do you use with her? I've got a kiddo who doesn't have a strong need to please just for the sake of pleasing so he isn't going to behave just because we said so. He also acts out more if attention is called to misbehavior--he loves any reaction from us. But he does "get" consequences and we are trying to help him learn to think through what will happen if he continues what he's doing. He's impulsive (sounds like your daughter is too) and just does without thinking through. Which is dangerous as well as frustrating. If she does understand but just doesn't follow through that's easier. I'm trying to think of examples but having trouble right now...

[Kodama]

I guess it just rubs me the wrong way, but I would be quite upset if someone told me the devil was in my child or if they made fun of her behavior like that. I just do not see that as appropriate or funny or respectful of her.

Honestly, I can't dx her because I have never met her. But from what you are saying, she sounds like a high spirited little girl who is feisty for her age. It is quite possible she has sensory issues as well. I second talking to her pediatrician.

However, I would be quite concerned about how people at your church and play group are treating her and you. Again thou, she is 2. 2 year olds are supposed to act up, be rambunctious, and have fun. You do not need to be outcasted, talked down to, pittied, or ridiculed because she is high spirited and has sensory issues. She is a very sweet little girl. Don't let them treat you like dirt.

[williamsmommy2002]

I agree the treatment and comments are not respectful. That is one of the reasons we didn't leave the house much except to the park when ds1 was that age. Ds1 was very much like that. He didn't follow directions partially because he didn't understand the language and partially because he didn't understand why. Now he understands but doesn't see the importance. He is clearly on the spectrum and reacts to sensory issues with hyperactivity. He runs as a coping mechanism so that is one of the reasons he would run away when we were out.

Your dd is 2. She has plenty of time to grow up and behave in public. I think she might have sensory issues going on and she might do better when those are handled correctly. Some childrem are just different and that is ok.

[cchrissyy]

it sounds like your gut says something's wrong. what you describe, with a healthy kid who is a constant screamer, not sleeping, never still, that is what we've lived through. We actually had 2 parents home with DS1 because he was so totally unmanageable from birth to... well... anyway, lots of therapy, labels, and meds later, my husband did go back to work and my boy is mainstreamed at school. he's 5.

possible diagnoses, just so you can get familiar with the terms while you wait for a developmental and psychological assessment:

Sensory processing disorder
regulatory disorder
autism / PDD
bipolar
ADHD

I know I said my boy was like that at 2. He also was at 3 and 4. She has time to mature before you should worry.

But I really believe in informing yourself and getting things checked out, espeically since you sound like your mama gut says something's up. The wait can be very long so schedule the visits now. You can always cancel later if things smooth out for her.

there is a recent book that covers all the usual suspects in decent depth and distinguishing each condition from the others. It's called "kids in the syndrome mix". for sensory, "the out of sync child" is very good.

even though DS has had tons of assessments now, many labels, many specialists on his case, many eductaional services, when he was 2 and we saw Early Intervention, there wasn't enough to give him one of the big labels yet. we came away from some free in-home occupational therapy for sensory integration and some speech therpay for intelligibility issues I hadn't even noticed yet. With a couple years more development, certain behaviors and delays grew more pronounced and diagnosable.
So nothing against those EI guys, but people shouldn't take them as the final word.

[krissi]

DS is a lot like that (and is the exact same age). He is a very, very spirited toddler and has several nicknames ranging from the goblin to The Destructor. He is very sweet sometimes but usually can wear me down very fast on a bad day to when I just want to hide in a dark closet for a few hours. But we kind of think it is a mixture of personality (apparently DH was exactly like this when younger) and some level of sensory issues. He is not really delayed except maybe a few gross motor things like not jumping yet...but otherwise just extremely energetic, never stops moving, and extremely disruptive and incompatible with any type of adult-oriented social setting. He does have allergies though and this does appear to exacerbate his behavior at times. I would consider that angle and also look into the out of sync child books.

You may or may not need to get a formal evaluation at some point if the issues do not improve, but I do not know if I would worry about it quite yet if there are no language or physical delays.

[GooeyRN]

There are no language or motor delays. She has been pretty much ahead or right on time with all milestones. She does understand what we ask her to do/ask not to do, but she doesn't always understand the "why's". She does understand "hot", "fall/get hurt", etc but she still can't seem to control herself.

She seems like she is a bit above average intelligence wise. She has nicknames, too. As a baby we called her (never to her, just between ourselves) "the beast" and now she is " the tornado". We do not hit/spank. We try not to yell, but sometimes it happens unfortunately. Only on the really bad days, like when she is really bad, the baby is fussy, and then dh has to work late so I don't get a break at all. That sets her off more. We try to use natural consequences. Doing that just pisses her off even more. I haven't tried time outs, I don't think they would work with her. I think they would upset her too much, since she has always been so high touch and can't sit still. It would be torture to her at this age.

I don't think people mean to be disrespectful about the comments. My co-workers say things too. I think its mostly them just observing that I have it rough (especially with a new baby) and want to say something, but things usually come out wrong.

I always felt something was wrong, other just said she was a difficult baby. Now that I have a "normal" baby, I KNOW something isn't right with her. I will get some books that were mentioned in a few weeks when I have the money.

Thanks everyone!

[jillmamma]

My DS has some sensory issues too, that I did not really pick up on till he was more like 4 and started preschool. He was (still does sometimes) constantly leaving the classroom, climbing things, wandering around, and not participating among other things because he was overwhelmed by all the noise and activity in his classroom and did not know how else to cope. Maybe that is why she runs off? He has started occupational therapy, and it is helping a lot! They work with gross motor, fine motor, and sensory issues. We go to one that specializes in children, so for him it is lots of fun to get to play with all the cool toys and things they have. Good luck in everything!

[AuntLavender]

People say the dumbest things don't they?

Originally Posted by GooeyRN

I know I need to get her evaluated, but I can't bring myself to do it. Does anyone here know what possible diagnosis she may be given?

My youngest is 4 years 8 mos and we are seeing a psychologist for an evaluation on the 20th of this month. It takes time to digest things and figure out whom to see.

I stopped going to church because my youngest could not handle 90 minutes away from me. I then tried to bring him into the sanctuary with me. He was good for the singing but when it was time to be quiet well he could not be quiet.

The first person you should see is your child's pediatrician. He or She is the first person you see. Mine has given me many good recommendations but my child has other issues like urology, orthopedic, and speech and occupational therapy issues.

People have said dumb things that were hurtful to me in a joking way. I too sometimes think of my child as a "beast" or "tornado"!

Sincerely,
Debra, homeschooling mom of 4 ages 11, 10, 8, and 4 1/2

[angelamclamb]

My daughter is now 17 1/2yrs old and when she was born I was completely ignorant to how different kids can be. My first was quiet, content and happy all the time. My daughter cried all the time from day 1 and even at 2yrs old woke at least one time a night with night terrors. She had two nicknames, one being "fingers" since her hands had to be into something all the time. She was so dang curious about everything. Took everything apart, cut her dolls hair off, cut her hair, colored all over everything, was never content like my oldest. She wouldn't sit still when I would try to read to them, she was always on the go. The other nickname was "Tazmanian Devil" as she was always running somewhere out of control. By the time she was 8 she was dx with ADHD. We later found she had a dairy allergy and removed all dairy and this helped tons as we removed artificial dyes from the foods that helped even more. She also had sensory issues as well.

My 5yr old has sensory issues currently. We took the microwave out of the house for the first 4 yrs due to his screaming when we used it. He hates to get dirty, he lines his cars up in a row and dares anyone to touch them. He doesn't like loud noises either, like lawn mowers, big trucks or sirens. Other than that he seems alright.

I would give your dd some time to mature. Get an eval. done though for the sensory issues so they can be worked on now, but later consider ADHD as a culprit. Try eliminating diary from her foods and see if there is a difference. Try ordering DMG Behavorial Balance. It is just a multi-vitamin/multimineral that some kids seem to lack.

Allergies to foods in kids can really mess them up. I think most medical diagnoses like ADD or ADHD can be controlled with diet alone. My daughter is doing well now and in 11th grade, her career path is to be a NICU nurse. She has a great deal of compassion which is a huge positive factor in nursing or in the medical field in general.

Edited to add that my daughter was so bad as a toddler that I placed bells on her shoes...when I didn't hear the bells, she was into trouble!

[Kodama]

I still would be very careful about what people say around her like that. I would not put up with those comments from people. Although she may not speak as well as an adult, she still understands.

And if she does have special needs, it makes it even that much worse for them to say it even if they did not intend it to be mean. She may not be able to control some of her behaviors through no fault of her own, and people are already ridiculing her for that. That makes me a bit heartbroken.

If she has special needs, she is different. She is not wrong, broken, or defective. She just processes the world differently and needs a bit of help. There is nothing you did wrong with her. She is just different. That does not make her bad or defective.

[wonderwahine]

If me and dh had been in your position we both would have put the person making the comment in their place.

#1 there is no biblical evidence of a demon ever entering an innocent childs body, and it has always entered someone who has welcomed it or opened a door (eg a oijui board).

#2 the devil must be in that person to make them say such a mean spirited comment in front of an innocent child and about an innocent child.

[mariaz]

Getting rid of dairy has made a big difference in ds's behavior as well. It's amazing how a dairy allergy can affect a child!

[LynnS6]

Originally Posted by GooeyRN

I always felt something was wrong, other just said she was a difficult baby. Now that I have a "normal" baby, I KNOW something isn't right with her. I will get some books that were mentioned in a few weeks when I have the money.

Thanks everyone!

Don't forget your local public library! Even if they don't have them, you can get them for free from Interlibrary Loan. Just ask your librarian (you can call so you don't have to bring your high energy toddler and baby to the library).

I always take books out from the library first. I've only bought 2-3 parenting books and one on sensory issues.

Oh, and you can also try http://www.bookmooch.com/