not sure where to post -- question about speech delays

[Momma Aimee]

my son is 27 months now

My son was assessed last summer by the local Early Intervention group -- trough the school district / state.

He qual for services only because his voc is 25% or more behind ... it is more or less 100% behind as he has NO words. I read he should have like 250

He is being seen once a month -- basically to follow him. Later this month we meet to reassess paper work, goals and so forth -- our visiting speech person is considering suggeting he be moved to 'active therpay" rather than simply just a once a month meeting to follow his progress -- that will be talked about later this month.

he has no words and this seems to both people.

However all the rest of his communication skills and devlopmental skills are on track and GREAT -- eye contect, taking turns in conservations, following 2 part directions, when babbleing a question his voice raises at the end and everything ......

He does have signs and can combo 3 and 4 signs together just liekt he check list for his age asks if he can do with words -- so he is on track with the developement.

DS1 doesn't jargon either -- no made up words or signs.

He does babble , but a lot of the time when he talks to you he doesn't open his mouth -- talks with his lips shut.

he will mimic the number of syiables in a word (misspelled i know).

Every so often you think you hear him say something ... but he never repeates it.

if he makes a sound when you say "brother" and you say "yes brother" he won't repeat after you or repeat the sound

--- he seems to be shy or embarssed at these times.

he commmunicates well and we have little fustration or fits over it (no fits, little fustration). He is not bothered.

his hearing is good and he has seen an ENT.

I was a late talked -- not a word till after 3.

so all in all we re not worried , but are taking adgantave of services offered.

that was a looooong intro for a question

I hear talk of and Einstein syndrome -- is this somethign REAL ie that he can recieve and Dx for -- or is it jsut a general idea that talking late doesn't mean he is going to be limited mentally???

Can anyone tell me anything about it.

Aimee

[chann96]

That sounds like textbook apraxia to me. I could have listed many of the same things with my daughter. I would highly recommend getting an eval by an slp experienced and trained with apraxia and phonological issues. Many slps unfortunately don't recognize it especially in very young children.

Great website for it: http://www.apraxia-kids.org/

[Rowan Tree]

I could have written the same post about my 29 month old son. He, too, communicates very well, just with very, very limited speech (he has only just started to try to mimic us). He also usually keeps his mouth fairly closed when trying to speak. His speech therapist says he most likely has a weak jaw and is tounge tied. His doctor, however, wants us to go get an autism evaluation at the children's hospital (though the speech therapist believes it is only a communication issue, not autism, since he has great eye contact and social skills).

I also felt that he might be embarrassed at times to talk, like he is thinking too much to form his ideas into words. In my opinion, he is very smart, has an incredible memory and is also extremely artistic (started drawing circles at 14 months, now draws all shapes, people, animals, cars).

I read the book Einstein Syndrome (I believe the author is Thomas Sowell) about late talkers who are merely extremely bright children. His theory was that these late talking children, like Einstein, have a overly developed part of the brain which makes them very intelligent/genius level, but that kind of takes over the part of the brain where speech develops, hence causing that skill to arrive later. Apparently, this theory was observed during Einstein's autopsy when his brain was studied.

The book also says that if there are late talkers in the child's family (like you say you were) and a family history of musicians and engineers, the late talking child may have this Einstein Syndrome (I don't think it is an actual syndrome until further research can be done though). I also was a late talker, as were other members of my family and my husbands family, and my grandfather was a genius with a photographic memory.

[Momma Aimee]

hummmmmm

I will read more about apraxia -- thanks.

I am trrying not to worry -- but then there is a a part of me thinking ....what if i don't worry, i am usally a worry wort, adn then THIS time there really IS a problem and i miss it and we find out later that if i had taken more note when he was 2 ..... yadda yadda yadda.....

I will look for that book too -- right now, on line -- I spoke late, dad spoke late, my dad has a photographic totally and mine is good -- as in can tellyou that this topice is covereing on a right hand page of my high school histopry book under a picture of this ... bottem of the page and i and quote sound bites, not the whole thing ... hummmmmmmmmmm

I don't want to say he is gifted, but i know he is not behind as far as mental ablity (save his colors) and he puts things to to gether -- ideas well -- he problem solves too well and he remembers and applies what we did late time to this time and he follows all Dh and my conservations ..... so I am not worried -- at this point -- about a IQ or mental delay ....

Aimee

[LynnS6]

If his hearing has been tested and he can hear well enough, then I would definitely look into apraxia. If he's combining 3-4 signs then you know it's not a general problem with language or comprehension. The saying words once and not again, the refusal to repeat, the not jargoning/babbling all speak to something that's going on with his ability to get the sounds out.

I would also make sure that you continue to work on sign with him so that his vocabulary can grow -- kids are learning a lot of new words at this age. If you have access to someone who can sign grammatically (so who's been trained in sign language and knows more than individual signs, or someone who is Deaf and signs), you might see if they can work with him two. No reason he can't continue to develop in that.

[chann96]

Originally Posted by Rowan Tree

I read the book Einstein Syndrome (I believe the author is Thomas Sowell) about late talkers who are merely extremely bright children. His theory was that these late talking children, like Einstein, have a overly developed part of the brain which makes them very intelligent/genius level, but that kind of takes over the part of the brain where speech develops, hence causing that skill to arrive later. Apparently, this theory was observed during Einstein's autopsy when his brain was studied.

nak

I have to respond here as this is a pet peeve of mine. It is a myth that Einstein was a late talker. There is evidence of him speaking in a full sentence before he was 3. http://www.apraxia-kids.org/site/app...8451&ct=464411

His family largely perpetuated the myth and Sowell's book continues to do so.

Also, in general age of language and speech acquisition are not indicative of intelligence. Most kids with any kind of speech issue are going to be average/typical intelligence.

[Momma Aimee]

i am e-mailing his caseworker with early intervention today.

---- oh and my 3 month old is coughing again, like when we were int eh hsptial 3 weeks ago with RSV he was fine yesterday morning and now he is not -----

I am asking her in general if apraxia has been considered and if it was ruled out -- why.

I am asking her if more assessment is possible.

and i am asking "where we go from here" and "so when do we worry"

It is so tough -- i talked very late -- past 3 before i used any words and never did jargon ..... Scott WAS in speech therpay in school and apperantly, he is youngest of 5, was very diffcult for anyone but his brother to understand for a long time -- up to school age?

sooooooooooo a big part of me says HE IS FINE and i feel in my heart he is fine ... but then i worry that i am missing something that needs to be address NOW so later we are not behind the 8 ball ("well if we had started treating this at 2 years of age ....but NOW ....").

Not sure ... guess we will wait and see ... i don't know if i should worry or not, and if i don't worry i am worried that late NOT worrying will bite me in the butt.

Aimee

[Rowan Tree]

Originally Posted by chann96

nak

I have to respond here as this is a pet peeve of mine. It is a myth that Einstein was a late talker. There is evidence of him speaking in a full sentence before he was 3. http://www.apraxia-kids.org/site/app...8451&ct=464411

His family largely perpetuated the myth and Sowell's book continues to do so.

I feel so tricked! Well, the research was interesting anyway...

[feebeeglee]

Originally Posted by chann96

Also, in general age of language and speech acquisition are not indicative of intelligence. Most kids with any kind of speech issue are going to be average/typical intelligence.

After all, most kids period are of average/typical intelligence - that's the whole meaning of average and typical!

[ShaggyDaddy]

Einstein had different brain anatomy from typical people (I mean physically) he was missing (or rather had an extremly truncated) Sylvian fissure, making some of the logic and Mathmatic centers of the brain physically closer together. The proximity allows the brain to use less energy to allow neurons in those centers to interact faster. Electrochemically Einstein could solve math problems more efficiently than he could solve language problems, and much more efficiently than the average person.

Additionally Einstein's speech center (Broca's area), was physically smaller than average, and in the space left over, his visual/spatial center was up to 15% bigger than average.

Einstein did not have above average intellegence in spite of his language difficulties... he had above average spatial and logical processing abilities BECAUSE of his language difficulties.

He was not greater, not worse, he was more specialized.

[Momma Aimee]

thanks everyone

I got an e-mail back from our Early Childhood Social Worker and she has been meeting iwth our Early Childhood Home Interventionist who comes to the house each month.

As of now we are set to / they plan to have a Speech and Language Pathologist assess
Theo's speech this Spring as he approaches age 2 1/2. Up
to age 2.5 Home Intervention Teachers have the training in
language development to work with little ones. The theory
behind this is that cognitive and language development go
hand-in-hand until children get older.

So she didn't really address the Apraxia question -- but i feel it is something we can discuss later this month and will be more formally assessed when he hits 2.5 if he still is not speaking.

She seems to feel we are being proactive and attentive ...

You are a perfect model of an
attentive mother so I don't want you to second guess
yourself. You've done so much with Theo to enhance his overall
development and his communication skills! 3 and 4 signs
put together in a sentence is fabulous!

Ok I don't know that I am a perfect modle of anything -- but at least the feeling is that we are making a good balance between concern and accepting that all childern, boys espcailly, are differnt.

What else can you learned momma and pappas tell me about speech delays that aren't just normal?

I am still unclear on where the breaking point is between normal late talker who just doesnt want to and a real concern.

AImee

[ShaggyDaddy]

Originally Posted by Momma Aimee

What else can you learned momma and pappas tell me about speech delays that aren't just normal?

I am still unclear on where the breaking point is between normal late talker who just doesnt want to and a real concern.

Some of us would say: All speech delays that aren't a result of physical injury are "normal".

The only speech delay that needs "intervention" imo is one that is frustrating the child, in which case you are just helping him be more comfortable with education.. Everyone else can deal with it... especially if he signs.

Like you already said he is not having any problems cognativly, your family history includes this kind of development, so it IS normal speech development, just not normal to the EI specialists. I have a "speech delayed" son, but it is not suprising that I also have a speech delayed father, brother, cousin, brother-in-law, etc etc.

[kati6110]

Aimee,

My motto is that I'd rather look back and think that we did *too much* instead of regretting that we didn't do enough. Does that make sense? I recommend getting your ds evaluated by an SLP experienced with oral-motor issues in young children. The worst that could happen is that you spend some money and gain some peace of mind. I've also found that reports by independent professionals help me get better services from EI.

There is a gray area between accepting your child as they are and proactively getting them the help that they need. It's a fine line and a lot of of us on this board have been walking it for a long time.


Cathy