Sharing

[lobster]

My son is 17 months old and recently has decided that he does not like to share. We were waiting for this day : and I know it's totally age-appropriate.

However, we often have play dates and spend time at an early childhood drop-in centre, and sharing issues make it a little difficult. Typically, when a child has something my son wants/owns/was playing with earlier, and he decides he should have it, he will screech and grab the thing from the other child. This inevitably causes crying and/or screaming on the part of the other child, a big fuss from any onlooking parents, and the situation quickly becomes a "mean boy, you need to share" kind of thing.

Now, I do not expect my son to share his toys when he doesn't want to. I think everyone needs to have things that are just for them, that they can choose to keep to themselves or share with others as they see fit. I don't share everything I own with everyone who wants it, and I don't expect my son to either.

But I also do NOT like him grabbing things from other children, screeching to get his point across, and assuming he can take what he wants. He is only just starting to talk, and I know he comprehends most of what I'm saying, but the talks we've had about sharing seem to go over his head.

Any advice on sharing & dealing with very different parenting styles (ie the parents of the other child) would be appreciated.

[angela&avery]

well I think that it is perfectly acceptable to bring a couple of things for just him that he does not have to share, and I think its also very important that you do not allow him to grab from other kids. Because he does to this, you really need to be constantly on guard for a while and shadow him. When you shadow kids at this age you are able to intercept BEFORE it happens and you start making connections this way as to what is expected behavior, rather than always having to correct it after it happens. So when he goes to grab, you say " we don't grab, this isn't yours (or he/she is playing with that right now), this is your toy" and leave it at that. If he flips out and starts lunging and such, just remove him from the situation until he calms down. When he is older and has more words, you can get into asking for a turn, etc.. but right now its important that he learn "we don't grab". If this is too much to ask, then maybe you avoid playdates for a few weeks to diffuse the situation and then try it again. It really isnt fair to other children if this is happening constantly.

[Bellejar]

We jhad a lot of this with my eldest. She liked to grab from others. I ended up doing exactly what the previous poster says. I shadowed her and prevented the problems before they happened. Turns started at about 2 and she has been a great sharer ever since. She even asks to get things for her little sister when we are out and about and her sister isn't there. We also have a rule that if we are out and we bring something with us if they don't want to share it needs to stay in the car. I find especially at parks and drop ins being unwilling to share will always cause a problem.

[lobster]

Originally Posted by angela&avery

well I think that it is perfectly acceptable to bring a couple of things for just him that he does not have to share, and I think its also very important that you do not allow him to grab from other kids. Because he does to this, you really need to be constantly on guard for a while and shadow him. When you shadow kids at this age you are able to intercept BEFORE it happens and you start making connections this way as to what is expected behavior, rather than always having to correct it after it happens. So when he goes to grab, you say " we don't grab, this isn't yours (or he/she is playing with that right now), this is your toy" and leave it at that. If he flips out and starts lunging and such, just remove him from the situation until he calms down. When he is older and has more words, you can get into asking for a turn, etc.. but right now its important that he learn "we don't grab". If this is too much to ask, then maybe you avoid playdates for a few weeks to diffuse the situation and then try it again. It really isnt fair to other children if this is happening constantly.

Thanks for your input. I do think removing him from the situation entirely will work well - don't know why I didn't think of that!

I really hate to see this behaviour and it pushes my buttons so bad. My instinct is to grab the toy right back from him and give it to the other child, but obviously I don't do that as I'd only be reinforcing grabbing behaviour.

You're right, it isn't fair to other children, and the sooner we get it sorter out, the better.

[Limabean1975]

I'm not sure if it will work at his age...but something that has worked really well with my DS and others his age (at our playgroups & such) is "It's Tommy's turn with that right now, you can play with it when he's done." Or something like that - I think that the under-2 set has trouble with the concept of your "no" not being permanent -they think that if they can't have that toy now, they can never ever have it.
A few weeks ago, I was at a friend's house (with whom I have a mutual agreement that we can "discipline" each others' kids). Her 2yo DS has a great deal of trouble with sharing and was very tense about *his* toys and my DS. I said to him "You know Matthew, John is not going to take your toys home. He is just going to play with some of them here, then leave them here when we go!" . It had an amazing effect - it was like a switch flipped in his brain, and he realized he did not have to panic about his toys. His mother tells me that that one statement I made has had a lasting effect in the last few weeks.

[MamaZoZo]

I totally agree with removing him from the situation when you're at a drop-in centre. Having been there from both perspectives (mum to the grabber and the grabee), it's difficult to see your child take things (it's a behaviour in DD I very much dislike) or have their things taken. If your child is a drama queen like my little angel, the tears start as soon as someone looks at her toys. The anger starts when she wants something that someone else has.
The time that we spend alone while she's throwing her fit over the toy is getting shorter and shorter every time. She's starting to get it! Sometimes I can even just look at her and say "Would you like to leave? Because if you keep screaming we'll have to go home." Sometimes 'home' just means a quiet time in the hallway before we 'renegotiate' going back in.

Warning: may take many many many many times before he full understands.

I'm going to try the Matthew and John example on my daughter! Here's hoping her switch will flip!

[lobster]

Today at the drop-in centre, I was ready and waiting for the grabbing and screeching to begin, and was all set & prepared to remove him to the hallway. And guess what? He was an angel all morning. He played beautifully with the other kids and never once had an issue with sharing. Go figure!

[ryleeee]

i often warn my son (who is considerably older - 28 months old) that if he insists on bringing his FAVOURITE TOY IN THE WORLD to playgroup, then someone else might want to play with it, and he'd have to decide whether or not to share it. more often than not (like 96% of the time) he decides he'd rather leave it at home.

i think sharing is different to kids than taking turns. you know those egg timers? what if you brought one with you and timed minutes to share? that might sound weird, but i think it would help him visually understand that sharing does not mean giving it away forever, but that it would be fair and equal.

i don't know if you are anti-tv, but sesame street has a good program about elmo and zoe fighting over a train set of elmo's, and eventually they work it out to play with big bird too. anyways, i realize your son is too young for this show, but it has really helped us explain to haye that yes he still needs to share toys etc, just like elmo did with zoe.

oh, and i always make sure to remove him from the immediate situation, get down on his level or bring him up to mine, and explain that we need to share toys, that the toys aren't his to begin with and that even if they were ours we would share them. we have also begun "trading"...especially handy if your kid is addicted to the thomas train table at chapters. ...often haye wants daisy or harold or whoever, and someone else will have it...we talk to the kid and ask them if they would mind trading for a train we have etc. the parents sometimes look at me like i'm crazy, but then again i'm always the one on the floor making sound effects and interacting with the kids while the yuppy parents sit around sipping their lattes and chatting with each other. the trade method works wonders for us...also making sure there are equal parts helps too...like if haye has 8 trains at the table and a kid comes, i make sure he knows ahead of time that if someone comes he will have to give up 4 trains...and when i see them heading our way we are already choosing the 4 favourite trains to keep. etc.etc.etc. it's a battle, but it's mostly downhill.

[ryleeee]

oh, and i have definitely been the parent removing a screaming/throwing/biting/hitting/kicking 40 lb ball of terror from a situation, but i now (DUH.) realize that it is totally my fault for setting my child up for disastrous behaviour.
why has it taken me sooooo long to realize this? i don't know. but at last i have.

here is an example:

one fine day, i decided to take my kid to the train table at chapters. it was around 11:00 i guess, and he naps by 1 usually. it's a 20 minute drive there, but i thought that would be plenty of time. NOT. he actually threw a train at a sweet little kids head and ran away screaming INTO THE MALL. that was really bad...i explained (on the way to the car) that he was NOT allowed to run away from mama, and that we were going home for a nap because he was obviously too tired to play.

the next day i took him to play at the same place early in the morning, probably around 9:15. he was an ANGEL. completely different. he had breakfast, nursed, had a good sleep etc...and was so much "better". he spent a good hour and a half lining up trains and handing out trains and playing gently.

so yeah. that's my big advice. don't set your kid up for disaster. we now know that our best time to grocery shop/playgroup/do anything semi-productive starts at 9, and we should be in the car headed home by 11:30 at the latest. he's alright again after naps and milk and snacks too, probably around 2:30-5.

[GuildJenn]

One thing I wanted to add that someone said here recently is that "sharing" is a very complex activity and concept.

Quick practical advice: ask your son not to grab, 'cause that is really the issue. "We don't grab toys out of people's hands. It will be your turn with that toy later/soon."

On sharing, what I read here was that if we think about it... kids are expected to share their toys at the playground, but mum and dad don't share their cars with random strangers. We share a box of cookies but we don't share each other's cups. At playgroup we say "the toys are for everyone" but then we say "don't take that one Bob is playing with it."

Calling all these things sharing can be really confusing! Sharing is a very complicated societal expectation and for the little ones sometimes it's better to focus on the behaviours around sharing - grabbing, turns, asking for a turn, asking for another cracker, offering another grape, etc.

[Limabean1975]

Originally Posted by ryleeee

:

we have also begun "trading"...especially handy if your kid is addicted to the thomas train table at chapters. ...often haye wants daisy or harold or whoever, and someone else will have it...we talk to the kid and ask them if they would mind trading for a train we have etc. the parents sometimes look at me like i'm crazy, but then again i'm always the one on the floor making sound effects and interacting with the kids while the yuppy parents sit around sipping their lattes and chatting with each other. the trade method works wonders for us....

I could have written this almost word for word...train table at chapters...me being the "crazy" parent down on the floor...the only thing is, I'm down there WITH my latte.

eta: Excellent, excellent post GuildJenn!

[lobster]

Originally Posted by GuildJenn

One thing I wanted to add that someone said here recently is that "sharing" is a very complex activity and concept.

Quick practical advice: ask your son not to grab, 'cause that is really the issue. "We don't grab toys out of people's hands. It will be your turn with that toy later/soon."

On sharing, what I read here was that if we think about it... kids are expected to share their toys at the playground, but mum and dad don't share their cars with random strangers. We share a box of cookies but we don't share each other's cups. At playgroup we say "the toys are for everyone" but then we say "don't take that one Bob is playing with it."

Calling all these things sharing can be really confusing! Sharing is a very complicated societal expectation and for the little ones sometimes it's better to focus on the behaviours around sharing - grabbing, turns, asking for a turn, asking for another cracker, offering another grape, etc.

That makes a lot of sense to me - to address the very specific action (grabbing) instead of a vague, confusing thing like "sharing". Thanks for pointing that out!

[ryleeee]

hey now, i never said i don't have the latte.


*ahem* actually i drink a venti caramel frap. while my toddler sucks on a tall half-full cup of ice cold H20.
hehehehe.

[Jade's Mom]

What do you do, though when as you're removing your child he/she refuses to let go of the toy to give back to the child he/she took it from without reinforcing the grabbing? My daughter is 19 months and will hold on tight, and try to run away. Or if I get ahold of her, she'll hold on tight and scream.

[ryleeee]

if that happens to me i get down on his level and clearly say "haye, you can not take toys away from other children. do you want to give it back or do you want mommy to give it back?"

usually he will give it back, sometimes i have to pry it out of his death-grip.

[Limabean1975]

Distract distract distract (redirect redirect redirect!). I too have resorted to prying his tight fingers off something, but I really try to avoid that - it only teaches that it's okay to use your physical power over someone to get something, right?

"You can have a turn with this when Sam is done with it, HEY! How about that water table & boats while you are waiting! Look at that, there's fish too!". I know, it does not always work, but sometimes...

[BonMaman]

Originally Posted by Jade's Mom

What do you do, though when as you're removing your child he/she refuses to let go of the toy to give back to the child he/she took it from without reinforcing the grabbing? My daughter is 19 months and will hold on tight, and try to run away. Or if I get ahold of her, she'll hold on tight and scream.

Originally Posted by ryleeee

if that happens to me i get down on his level and clearly say "haye, you can not take toys away from other children. do you want to give it back or do you want mommy to give it back?"

usually he will give it back, sometimes i have to pry it out of his death-grip.

We are struggling with this, too. My older lad will have no interest in something until the younger lad picks it up, then the older one runs over and snatches it. : I am hung up in the whole issue of prying it out of his hands to return it to DS2 because I don't want to just overpower DS1, but if DS1 refuses to relinquish it (which he usually does ), what then? He's pretty good about saying "DS2 can play with *this* toy" (in lieu of the toy he just snatched), and while DS2 might be okay with that (sometimes) now, he won't always (and shouldn't have to) be.