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Measles spreading in San Diego - Page 9

post #161 of 267
Quote:
Originally Posted by carriebft View Post
SO, it seems when it comes to SSPE, it was blissful ignorance and not joyful celebration of the disease?




Quote:
Yes, but don't you see, living in a developed country does not guarantee good health; you could still be exposed to industrial toxins, or have poor eating habits, or whatever. The "simple logic" you're up against here does not take the standard approach of attempting to define "poor health" a priori and then predicting outcomes based on that. It defines "in poor health" post hoc as "anyone who gets sick". It's airtight. If you got sick (or had complications) you were by definition in poor health to begin with. It's like defining "fittest" as "those who survive".
OMG I almost busted a gut and dropped a nursing baby. I love this!!! You are so right on.
post #162 of 267
Quote:
Originally Posted by delphiniumpansy View Post
Subacute Sclerosing Panencephalitis: More Cases of This Fatal Disease Are Prevented by Measles Immunization than Was Previously Recognized

Also, when a live attenuated measles virus vaccine was first licensed in the United States in 1963 [2], the etiology of SSPE was unknown. It was not until 1967–1969 that measles viruses were demonstrated to be the etiologic agents of this rare but almost uniformly fatal disorder of the central nervous system.

link

I have several friends who spend time on German mothering type boards. Not only are they unaware of anyone having measles parties, they are worried about the Swiss measles outbreaks and they are fairly certain that very few, if any, people in either country view the outbreaks of measles as cool or anything like that.

Quote:
In cases of SSPE that developed in children or adults who had no history of measles but who did have a history of vaccination against measles virus, analysis of measles virus sequences derived from the patients confirmed the presence of the wild‐type genome, indicating that the individuals had an undiagnosed measles virus infection
and the conclusion

Quote:
The increased risk of developing SSPE after measles virus infection in young children underscores the importance of childhood immunization programs that decrease measles virus transmission and, therefore, reduce the risk of exposure to measles among infants.
so according to them, we should vax toddlers/children in order to protect infants.

but there was no discussion of passive immunity, and how mothers who have had measles confer immunity to measles to those exact infants who, according to them, are at greatest risk.

i'm just not comfortable with screwing with nature so profoundly. we already had a biological mechanism in place to protect the little ones...and now due to vaccinations, this natural mechanism is totally messed up.

thanks a lot! :
post #163 of 267
Quote:
Originally Posted by carriebft View Post
In other words, I really should go cook dinner or something because this is pointless
and I should really do some bookkeeping but..........
post #164 of 267
Quote:
Originally Posted by kidspiration View Post

i'm just not comfortable with screwing with nature so profoundly. we already had a biological mechanism in place to protect the little ones...and now due to vaccinations, this natural mechanism is totally messed up.

thanks a lot! :
But nature screws with us all the time. Modern medicine tries to subvert nature every time a doctor tries to save a life or repair an injury or take out a tumor or give medicine for an illness or vaccinate to prevent a disease. If you really want to live a 100% natural life, you have to turn off the computer and move into nature and then take your chances with wild animals and diseases and air pollution and water pollution and diseases and illness and the elements. Because everything you do to protect yourself against any of that subverts nature. Nature is a big bully trying to put us all down.
post #165 of 267
Quote:
Originally Posted by carriebft View Post
SO, it seems when it comes to SSPE, it was blissful ignorance and not joyful celebration of the disease?
Again…you have a 1 in 100,000 chance of getting SSPE from measles. Your chance of getting measles is extremely rare (see my post above) and then of the people that get it….1 in 100,000 develop SSPE. I’m just not worried about that. If my son was one of the rare kids to get measles and then got SSPE then obviously god wanted it that way.

It’s so so so rare that this would happen and the risk does not make me want to run out and get the MMR vaccine.

btw I am loving this discussion Very good arguments and links to think about.
post #166 of 267
Quote:
Originally Posted by kidspiration View Post
i'm just not comfortable with screwing with nature so profoundly. we already had a biological mechanism in place to protect the little ones...and now due to vaccinations, this natural mechanism is totally messed up.

thanks a lot! :
No, breastfeeding does not protect against measles for longer than roughly 6 months and only if the mother has enough antibodies which might not be the case even if she has had measles.
post #167 of 267
Quote:
Originally Posted by delphiniumpansy View Post
But nature screws with us all the time. Modern medicine tries to subvert nature every time a doctor tries to save a life or repair an injury or take out a tumor or give medicine for an illness or vaccinate to prevent a disease. If you really want to live a 100% natural life, you have to turn off the computer and move into nature and then take your chances with wild animals and diseases and air pollution and water pollution and diseases and illness and the elements. Because everything you do to protect yourself against any of that subverts nature. Nature is a big bully trying to put us all down.
again with the black and white, all or nothing.

my goal is not to live a 100% natural life, i just do my best to live as naturally as possible. interestingly, the computer has actually helped my family and i live a MORE natural life. i have so much more access to resources and alternatives because of the internet.

we've said it before and i'll say it again...utilizing medicine to deal with an acute illness or injury is VASTLY different from injecting a healthy person with vaccines.
post #168 of 267
I'm closing this thread for review

~Kristi
post #169 of 267
I'm reopening this thread, please keep the UA in mind when posting, and also be sure to stay on topic, thanks!

Kristi
post #170 of 267
There are now 11 confirmed cases, one more child who they are awaiting results on, and two more that have symptoms that cannot yet be linked to the current outbreak.

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/m...16measles.html
post #171 of 267
Quote:
Originally Posted by eclipse View Post
There are now 11 confirmed cases, one more child who they are awaiting results on, and two more that have symptoms that cannot yet be linked to the current outbreak.

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/m...16measles.html

thanks for the update.

it is interesting to read through the whole article and see the information that they are citing, btw.
post #172 of 267
Wow - the comments below that story are awful. Someone suggested that not vaccinating your child is the same thing as smoking in a car with them. :
post #173 of 267
They said at the bottom of that article that 3 in 1000 children die from measles. They need to check their stats.
post #174 of 267
Just a reminder to keep OT, and that
Quote:
Do not post to invite MDC members to other boards for adversarial purposes or post inflammatory information about MDC discussions at other boards, or about communities and discussions elsewhere, regardless of whether or not you link to that discussion or community. This is to maintain and respect the integrity of our own and other communities.
thanks
post #175 of 267
Quote:
Originally Posted by CanidFL View Post
They said at the bottom of that article that 3 in 1000 children die from measles. They need to check their stats.
That stat is quoted on the CDC parent's pages. These pages have no references whatsoever, so there is no way to figure out where the number came from. Not helpful for those who like their stats with a side helping of source.

http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vac-gen/...op.htm#measles
post #176 of 267
Quote:
Originally Posted by attachedmamaof3 View Post
NO ASPIRIN.

Dark/dim room due to sensitivity to light, lots of sleep and TONS of liquids (popsicles, soups, water,etc), daily dose of Vit A for about a week/half to 2 wks, Vit C (with bioflavinoids) and some people say to add Zinc

that's it!
Hey I passed! The how to "nurse" someone with some (disputed) form of measles test. And lots of echinacea tea... we did cod liver oil (time-honored "supplement") & emergen-c.
post #177 of 267
re: those more at risk for complications are in a poor state of health to begin with....

Quote:
Originally Posted by carriebft View Post
This does not seem to be supported by the switzerland, UK, and netherlands studies I posted. They still had 10% complication rates.
******************


From the Denmark study posted,

“The diagnosis was confirmed in 382 of the interviewed cases. The disease ran an uncomplicated course in 82%, while 18% of the children had one or two complications. Most frequent were infections of the respiratory system (7%), otitis media (9%) and other inflammatory conditions (3%);”

No mention of prior health.

From the Netherlands, no mention is made of health prior to onset of infection:

“in the Netherlands, with 3,292 reported cases.
One or more complications were reported for 519
(16 per cent). The proportion of patients with complications
was highest among children aged under
15 months (22 per cent), and lowest for those
aged 10-19 years (11 per cent). The complication
rate among older patients (over the age of 19
years) was 15 per cent. Three children aged two,
three and 17 years died as a result of complications
– none had been vaccinated (van den Hof et
al 2002).”


Keep in mind, the most common complication reported wrt measles is runny poop. I am not talking about runny poop, I am talking about those with serious complications that may result in death. And I stand by my statement wrt those most at risk and I have yet to see anyone disprove it.

The last quote only highlights the reason why we should not prevent our girls from having measles, if they don’t get measles, they aren’t able to protect their infants in those vulnerable early months, but I guess you’re ok with putting these infants are risk for SSPE, or is it just blissful ignorance?

From your quote:

“Subacute sclerosing pan encephalitis is a progressive degenerative disorder of the central nervous system – it is fatal. The onset occurs on average seven to ten years after measles
infection, and it is more common in children who have had measles before the age of one year (18/100,000 compared with 4/100,000 overall)
(Farrington 1991).”


Increased susceptibility to measles in infants in the United States.

“BACKGROUND: Women born in the United States after measles vaccine licensure in 1963 transfer less measles antibody to their infants than do older women. This may result in increased susceptibility to measles among infants.




. CONCLUSIONS: Infants whose mothers were born after 1963 are more susceptible to measles than are infants of older mothers. An increasing proportion of infants born in the United States may be susceptible to measles.”

SOURCE: Pediatrics 1999 Nov;104(5):e59
post #178 of 267
It seems if we accept the assumption (which everyone in this thread seems to have) that developing country= poor health....then it would not be difficult to accept the assumption that developed country= not poor health.

But if we are rejecting assumption #2, than assumption #1 should probably also be thrown out.
post #179 of 267
Quote:
Originally Posted by suschi View Post
Keep in mind, the most common complication reported wrt measles is runny poop. I am not talking about runny poop, I am talking about those with serious complications that may result in death.
Diarrhea is a major cause of death in children. The WHO attributes 3.5 million deaths a year to diarrhea, with 80 percent of these deaths occurring in children under the age of five. Young children are particularly susceptible to dehydration resulting from diarrhea (it is the dickens to spell, isn't it?) since they have a smaller amount of body fluid to begin with. The age distribution in the Netherlands study you referenced might easily be taken as largely a reflection of this.

Quote:
And I stand by my statement wrt those most at risk and I have yet to see anyone disprove it.
It's rather easy to make assertions which cannot easily be "disproved". I won't even disagree that those in poor health are disproportionately at risk; the question is whether they are the only ones at risk.

Quote:
Women born in the United States after measles vaccine licensure in 1963 transfer less measles antibody to their infants than do older women. This may result in increased susceptibility to measles among infants.
But in countries where vaccine coverage is high, measles essentially ceases to exist, even in infants of vaccinated mothers.
post #180 of 267
Quote:
Originally Posted by carriebft View Post
It seems if we accept the assumption (which everyone in this thread seems to have) that developing country= poor health....then it would not be difficult to accept the assumption that developed country= not poor health.

But if we are rejecting assumption #2, than assumption #1 should probably also be thrown out.
Personally I'm not claiming that developing country= poor health. I'm getting that from other information. If the people don't have sanitary conditions and are dying of starvation, then yeah, they have poor health.

-Angela
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