Feeling Guilty

[wildflower18]

I'm struggling with how to promote breastfeeding without offending those who formula feed (due to low supply or even by choice). Experiences or suggestions welcome to help alleviate my guilt for making someone else feel guilty.

[PatioGardener]

Do you mind posting more details? Or maybe a context? It would be easier for me if I knew more about the situation.

For example, if a formula feeding mom tells me that she couldn't breastfeed, I say that it is common in the west where breastfeeding is often not supported for mothers to have difficulty with breastfeeding. I then ask her what difficulties she had, and gently explain that there are now resources available to help with breastfeeding, and that I know several moms who had really hard times with the first and went on to breastfeed the second with minimal problems because they had good support. I tend to put all the blame on a non-supportive medical system, and explain that new discoveries and new resources are now available.

I really do feel that we do the best we can with the knowledge we have at the time. When we know more, we do more.

[phreedom]

I dunno, sometimes it can't be helped. Some people will be hurt and offended no matter what. But IME that is rare that people get offended unless you are blatantly offensive.

I discuss BFing in a positive way based on it's own merits. Present BFing as the normal, default rather than the better alternative to formula. I do discuss the ways in which it is better than formula...but I don't center on that. And don't add ..."but formula is just fine too" disclaimer in order to avoid offending.

Most people are aware of formula as an adequate alternative, they don't really need to be told it's "just fine".

I don't put formula down, but I don't praise it either. At least not in matters of convenience.

And yeah what patio gardner said. I do try to understand where the mother is coming from. Sometimes "I can't BF" can mean: "I really don't want to." "I'm would like to but this just seems like too much work...help" or "I really can't BF" Depending on what she means...I just go from there.

[katheek77]

Originally Posted by PatioGardener

I then ask her what difficulties she had, and gently explain that there are now resources available to help with breastfeeding.
.

I'm guessing you didn't mean for the bolding part to come out the way it did, but that makes it seem like if people would just. try. hard. enough. everyone could breastfeed. That was essentially what was said to me by an LLL leader, who basically made it clear that, despite the fact that I have tubular breasts, I was not welcome at meetings if I was going to "choose" to supplement my daughter. Yes, I know not all, or even most, LLL leaders are like that - but, boy, did it turn me off of LLL.

If there IS/WAS a true medical issue, it's quite possible that even with all the resources in the world she may still have to supplement. And if there was/is a true medical issue, they've probably tried everything option under the sun to make it work.

Been there. Still there.

If someone says, "Oh, well, I had to go back to work at three months," then I think it's quite appropriate to *ask* if she'd like info about working moms who breastfeed/pump/reverse cycle, etc. Or if she says it was just too hard b/c baby was nursing every hour and she was exhausted, then you *ask* if she'd like resources to help with that for/if the next time she has a baby.

I think the best promotion for breastfeeding is to be out and about doing it, frankly. And the most effective time to promote breastfeeding is before the baby (or next baby) is born. Once the horse is out of the gate, there isn't much that can realistically be done. You can get someone to start thinking about how to do things differently the *next* time, but I don't see any point in beating someone up over what was done in the past.

[PatioGardener]

Oh yeah - totally didn't mean that to come across the way it did to you, Kathee! Sorry!

What I meant (the scenario that was playing in my head, actually) was a mom who had been told by her ped that she wasn't making enough milk because baby was wanting to eat every 2 hours (but gaining well), so to give baby formula and put him on a 4 hour schedule, and when she did her milk became less and less and then she had to go to 100% formula. A mom who had wanted to breastfeed, was told by her doctor that it wasn't working out, and instead of being given support and a referal to an LC etc, she was told that formula was fine.

My response to her was that we know so much about breastfeeding, but not all peds are aware, and that if she is worried about not having enough milk for a future baby that there are breastfeeding clinics etc that deal with these issues that she could access if she wants.

So many women don't breastfeed because they were told they can't by medical people who just don't know what they are talking about!

Of course there are women who can't breastfeed, or can't provide all the nutrition their babies need from the breast, which is why it is so important to know the context that you are dealing with when it comes to individuals. I know that some moms cannot breastfeed, and go to great lengths to provide as much breastmilk as they can. That's why I ask her about her difficulties and let her tell me about what happened.

Next time I'll be more clear about the context! I hope my comments didn't cause you any distress.

ETA: I'm so sorry to hear that you had that experience with LLL.

[katheek77]

Oh, no worries.

I totally know what you're talking about, too. One of my friends had a baby in October, and she had breast reduction surgery years ago (baby was a total oops - she hadn't planned on kids). She uses an SNS, and baby gets about 50/50. Anyway, she said how her ped was saying the baby was eating "too much" and getting "too fat".

He was all of 14lbs at almost 3 mos - and was born at 9lb 10oz and 22 inches, so, not exactly a super-chunky baby - just big all around.

I agree that lots of docs sabotage breastfeeding - maybe not even intentionally, just out of ignorance. I was very lucky to chance upon a ped. that fully supports breastfeeding and "extended" breastfeeding, but I know that's not always the case. And if you go on mainstream boards almost EVERYONE there says to put them on a schedule ASAP. And then the relatives - my MIL was pissed that when they showed up (uninvited) 7 days PP, I fed Katie and then had to feed her again an hour later - in her words, "Why did we drive all this way (3 hours), if all she's going to do is feed her?" And, of course, "Formula was fine for my kids...Why are you still doing *that*"

Luckily, *my* side of the family (who did straight ff, btw) is more or less supportive (my sis is a little squicked out by it), but, if anyone has a real problem with it, they're smart enough not to say anything . Gram even says how I don't need to worry about "all that crap" (formula and illness) since we're still b'f ing. Even my husband's friends know not to say too much, although one of his friends did tell me he thinks it's a little weird when they keep breastfeeding "past when they're supposed to stop...you know, 18 mos or so"

[wildflower18]

Originally Posted by PatioGardener

Do you mind posting more details? Or maybe a context? It would be easier for me if I knew more about the situation.

In discussing BFing with a pg Mom who is concerned that her family will tell her that one bottle can't hurt. After discussing the benefits of BFing, she wanted more info to defend herself against the argument that one bottle can't hurt. I offered info about the risks of formula - albeit stating that it's not just that breast is best, but if you turn that slogan around, formula is bad for babies. Someone who has had legitimate supply issues overheard the conversation and was offended. Her doctor and a LC told her that the only thing she was missing in formula these days were the antibodies. I apologized for offending her and left it at that. I feel the need to defend myself still over this matter, but know it will do no good and only cause further hurt. She is doing the best she can for her child, but that doesn't mean the negative info I provided about the risks of formula is inaccurate. I'm not sure why I'm holding onto this and won't move on...I feel guilty for making her feel bad, yet justified in what I said. I've been unable to resolve this for my own peace of mind!!:

[katheek77]

Don't feel guilty for that. She took offense when there was no offense or judgment present. If you'd said something like "Moms who formula feed don't care about their babies" or something like that, that would be offensive. Telling someone about the benefits of bm or the deficiencies of formula is nothing to feel guilty about.

I will say that I don't think formula is "bad" for babies, per se. It's sub-optimal, but, it still is "good" when babies *don't* have enough breastmilk - I mean, the alterative is starvation or cereal or cow's milk, or something along those lines. It's like medicine - it has its place, and is life-saving when used correctly. But, if I were legitimately on a round of antibiotics, I wouldn't get offended if someone pointed out that anti-biotics are overused and contribute to a host of other problems - that's still true, regardless of how they may be helping me at that moment.

Did what I say just make sense?

[PatioGardener]

That's a hard one. I appreciate your need to defend yourself, and even more so your desire not to hurt the other mom's feelings. Nobody wants to have hurt someone else, even if it was unintentional.

The thing is - you weren't talking to the mom with low supply. You were sharing facts with a pregnant mom who wants to breastfeed. It's true that one bottle of formula changes the gut flora of an infant. It is not true that the only difference between formula and breastmilk are the antibodies. I wish I knew why a doctor or an LC would say that.

I wish that we had milk banks for mothers with low supply so they could use human donor milk if they chose to (at a cost no higher than formula). But with no source of human donor milk, formula is crucial to that mother's baby's health, and in that situation, the risks of formula are far outweighed by the benefits.

A low milk supply mom recently asked me if I thought that formula was 'evil'. I immediately said no! Formula is keeping her baby alive - that is a good thing! Now if a baby doesn't need formula, then why on earth would you expose it to increased risks of disease - just like why would you take antibiotics if you didn't need them? But if the baby needs it then the risk-balance changes dramatically and the increased risks introduced by formula are greatly outweighed by the risk of death from starvation or dehydration!

Now, formula companies who break the Code and deliberately sabotage breastfeeding relationships... that's another matter!

ETA: Looks like Kathee and I posted at the same time - saying just about the same thing with the same examples!

[RoadWorkAhead]

I am a FFing mama now...NOt completely by choice, but technically could be considered by choice (I chose not to continue causing her FTT due to not finding the right elim. diet for her - I was down to 2 foods). And I still talk about formula in similar terms..That it isn't a matter of best and good enough but that breast milk is standard, the norm and makes anything less, well, less. I also acknowledge the very real issues some mamas have with BFing since obviously my own child is on formula *Technically, she's on medical food also used as a formula* I'm not as easy to offend with it since I did BF for a year, and DS for 2 years. I just approach it from my own experience and need to FF and how I would want to hear about it.

Kathee- I kept going to LLL even when I felt unwelcome, and its helped change the dynamics. I'm still waiting to see what happens when I show up with a FF kiddo next month, but it better be support!! So sorry you didn't get it!

[krystyn33]

That's a tough situation. It makes me sad when people are offended by information--sometimes it doesn't matter how considerate you are, or how much you "walk on eggshells" to protect someone's feelings--some people take things the wrong way or aren't ready to hear the truth.

Here are a couple links that might help--for your pregnant friend. It may help in those early days when BFing is challenging to know in detail about the risks of supplementing. (These risks are worth taking when there is TRUE need. I'm sorry to hear you mamas were treated poorly by your local LLL!!!)

http://www.drjaygordon.com/developme...supplement.asp

http://www.drjaygordon.com/development/bf/supppit.asp

[MommytoTwo]

I am with you ... I would love to put my baby in some BF shirts ... nothing obnoxious just like 100% breastfed ... something like that. But I only have him wear stuff like that to LLL ... I dont want to offend my FF friends. I do have a Support Breastfeeding/Human Milk for Human Babies license plate frame... I figure its not saying anything controversial or rude ... just asking for support. Still, two of my friends kind of rolled their eyes.

[APmomto3boys]

Originally Posted by wildflower18

In discussing BFing with a pg Mom who is concerned that her family will tell her that one bottle can't hurt. After discussing the benefits of BFing, she wanted more info to defend herself against the argument that one bottle can't hurt. I offered info about the risks of formula - albeit stating that it's not just that breast is best, but if you turn that slogan around, formula is bad for babies. Someone who has had legitimate supply issues overheard the conversation and was offended. Her doctor and a LC told her that the only thing she was missing in formula these days were the antibodies. I apologized for offending her and left it at that. I feel the need to defend myself still over this matter, but know it will do no good and only cause further hurt. She is doing the best she can for her child, but that doesn't mean the negative info I provided about the risks of formula is inaccurate. I'm not sure why I'm holding onto this and won't move on...I feel guilty for making her feel bad, yet justified in what I said. I've been unable to resolve this for my own peace of mind!!:

uh, I have been in that situation 100 times. Sad thing is, no matter what you say, that type of person will still be offended. They want you to say "its okay that you use formula" but some of us don't feel that way. Its a tough situtation. I had one heated argument with my MIL about it when my second was an infant! Its so hard to talk about this without offending someone. Its impossible for some to see past their personal situation to view the larger picture.

[APmomto3boys]

Originally Posted by MommytoTwo

I am with you ... I would love to put my baby in some BF shirts ... nothing obnoxious just like 100% breastfed ... something like that. But I only have him wear stuff like that to LLL ... I dont want to offend my FF friends. I do have a Support Breastfeeding/Human Milk for Human Babies license plate frame... I figure its not saying anything controversial or rude ... just asking for support. Still, two of my friends kind of rolled their eyes.

I just bought some...

one says "Powered by mommies milk"
one has a little chicken and say "Cage Free baby" lol
and a bib that says "hey you with the boobs... I am a little parched." lol

[sonrisaa29]

Originally Posted by APmomto3boys

uh, I have been in that situation 100 times. Sad thing is, no matter what you say, that type of person will still be offended. They want you to say "its okay that you use formula" but some of us don't feel that way. Its a tough situtation. I had one heated argument with my MIL about it when my second was an infant! Its so hard to talk about this without offending someone. Its impossible for some to see past their personal situation to view the larger picture.

But you have to realize that for many of us who do *have* to ff that it should be okay that we use formula. And unless you or you know someone who is willing to offer donated breastmilk then I have no other option.

Originally Posted by katheek77

I'm guessing you didn't mean for the bolding part to come out the way it did, but that makes it seem like if people would just. try. hard. enough. everyone could breastfeed. That was essentially what was said to me by an LLL leader, who basically made it clear that, despite the fact that I have tubular breasts, I was not welcome at meetings if I was going to "choose" to supplement my daughter. Yes, I know not all, or even most, LLL leaders are like that - but, boy, did it turn me off of LLL.

If there IS/WAS a true medical issue, it's quite possible that even with all the resources in the world she may still have to supplement. And if there was/is a true medical issue, they've probably tried everything option under the sun to make it work.

Been there. Still there.

If someone says, "Oh, well, I had to go back to work at three months," then I think it's quite appropriate to *ask* if she'd like info about working moms who breastfeed/pump/reverse cycle, etc. Or if she says it was just too hard b/c baby was nursing every hour and she was exhausted, then you *ask* if she'd like resources to help with that for/if the next time she has a baby.

I think the best promotion for breastfeeding is to be out and about doing it, frankly. And the most effective time to promote breastfeeding is before the baby (or next baby) is born. Once the horse is out of the gate, there isn't much that can realistically be done. You can get someone to start thinking about how to do things differently the *next* time, but I don't see any point in beating someone up over what was done in the past.

I am glad to see I am not the only one on here to have those issues with LLL. Does LLL encourage its memebers (the ones who can) to donate their breastmilk by the way?

I totally agree with your statement about not beating up someone over what was done in the past.

[wildflower18]

Originally Posted by APmomto3boys

I just bought some...

one says "Powered by mommies milk"
one has a little chicken and say "Cage Free baby" lol
and a bib that says "hey you with the boobs... I am a little parched." lol

Too cute!! Where did you get them at? I'd love to buy some too!

Originally Posted by sonrisaa29

Does LLL encourage its memebers (the ones who can) to donate their breastmilk by the way?

Where can I get info about donating breastmilk?

[STJinNoVa]

sometimes i think promotion of breastfeeding incorrectly targets an audience it wasn't meant to target. there are mommies who formula feed out of pure choice, because they didn't want to hassle with breastfeeding, because they thought it was icky, out of cultural or familial norm - these are the mommies that i think are a lactivist's target audience. there are also mommies who fought for the breastfeeding relationship and failed for any number of reasons, including not knowing what to do and not having any support, or medical issues, or whatever - those are the mommies that sometimes get inadvertently (or unconsciously on the part of the lactivist) pulled into the target audience and are hurt and offended by the ways that bfing advocates promote bfing.

knowing all the things that bm is designed to do was motivation enough for me to keep at it, and if the point of promotion is to motivate people to do it, then i think that's a good tactic. that's neither "breast is best" or "fomrula kills babies zomg", just biological fact. but even as a mom really committed to bfing (and working hard to wean from formula supplements), i ended up supplementing with formula instead of letting my baby continue to gain no weight at all. i'm not offended by information in the slightest, but sometimes by the delivery of it.

when someone tells me that formula is bad for babies, i look at my daughter and say, well, she's better off getting 30-40% of her calories from formula, and the rest from my milk, and gaining weight at an appropriate rate, than getting 100% of her calories from my milk and failing to thrive. what would have been bad for her is continuing to do what we were doing when it didn't work. not "it just didn't work out", but it didn't work. the difference is significant.

what i'm getting at is that for whatever reason, sometimes mom or babe does not thrive on exclusive breastfeeding. mom could have ppd or just be too miserable or exhausted to function, the family could need an additional income requiring mom to go back to work even though she has no success at pumping, baby could be too lazy with the feedings to gain any weight, mom could truly have an undersupply... it goes on and on.

so when the promotion of breastfeeding is actually an indictment of formula rather than a recognition of the simple biological fact of breastmilk being the perfect, normal, standard, ideal, naturally designed and just-right food for baby, that's when i start to get a little bunched and defensive. i figure i had three choices: i could let my baby continue to not thrive (and she wasn't), i could get milk from a milk bank for a "processing fee" of $3 an ounce or get milk from a totally unknown donor source (with the constant question of safety), or i could give her a couple of small bottles of formula a day to get her gaining weight again (despite the inherent inadequacies of formula). guess which i picked? and so when people get all "formula is bad for babies", i get frustrated because that doesn't hit me where i live at all. the best advertising firms know exactly how to target people where they live, know what i mean?

[wildflower18]

I had a well thought out post that apparently took too long to write and therefore got lost when I attempted to submit it.: So I will do my best to paraphrase.

Good, bad and best are all subjective terminology that need a context in which to frame them. As the PP said, formula can be best if it is sustaining your child's life. If I had the ability to restate my comment, I would most likely address the "risks" of formula rather than stating that it is bad. In some circumstances, the benefits of formula (sustaining life) far outweighs the risks.

The PP essentially said that you catch more bees with honey. You're going to attract more people to BF by touting the benefits. However, in the example that I gave, it seemed to me that the benefits weren't enough for her to make her case. She felt that there would be further argument that you would still get all the benefits of BFing if you supplemented on occassion. I'm still struggling with how, or if it's even necessary to address, in such a circumstance the negative aspects of formula. If it something that is shared in a specific situation, should I worry about the impact of the message on a larger scale? I feel like I am merely passing on factual (based on studies/research) information not a personal opinion. Prior to this conversation, I wouldn't say I felt passionate about BFing. I certainly like to encourage women to BF and to help support those who do, but I wouldn't intentionally make someone feel guilty for not breastfeeding.

[RoadWorkAhead]

I think in your first situation you mentioned that you could say something along the lines of "Well, in a baby that doesn't have need of supplements due to medical reasons or such, one bottle really can have serious consequences..." and mention the risks. It shows an understanding that not all mothers can BF or can BF 100% without acknowledging that FF by choice is okay. It acknowledges the very real issue that some of us face and doesn't denigrate us while still allowing you to provide the information...Heck, even with my bag of formula hanging out there I'd have joined in on that convo giving you additional points as I'm sure any of us who supplement by necessity rather than choice do. It is hard in the moment to think of the best way to put things, so its easy for me to think it up now but not then.

[angelcat]

Originally Posted by PatioGardener

For example, if a formula feeding mom tells me that she couldn't breastfeed

The the response should be, "oh, I'm sorry it didn't work out for you" Don't say anything to indicate you don't believe them. Questioning them is rude. it is not your business.

I hated being questioned by people I barely knew when I'd get my daughter's bottle out. I was already dealing with ppd, so people implying I 'just didn't try hard enough" REALLY hurt. I tried soo hard! I won't type out the story becasue I STILL cry when I remember how hard it was, and how it didn't work out.