Talk to me about Nightweaning

[liam's mom]

Yes, I know this is the dental forum

ds2 (not quite 22 months) has ECC (as did his brother) on his top 4 teeth. I knew he had them even before his dentist visit last week. Blech. We are brushing 2x/day w/xylitol paste, using xylitol wipes and mints, a topical fluoride once daily and the MI paste once daily. He also takes CLO. I wanted to get raw milk for him and his brother, but there are no suppliers here until spring.

I feel we are being very proactive and am pretty confident we'll halt the decay, but I am concerned about his night nursing. He nurses about 4-5 times during the day, and would nurse constantly at night if I allowed it. I do not believe night nursing caused the decay, but I am not convinced that it isn't making things worse. Does anyone have any good info? I am working with him on stretching out the amount of time between his nursing to sleep and his first nursing of the night (trying to get it to 4 or 5 hours, and so far it's going ok) but he nurses several times after that before morning.

In my heart I don't feel that he should be nightweaned, but I could use some reassurance. I am afraid that even with everything we're doing for his teeth, his night nursing is going to negate it.

Thanks in advance.

[melamama]

I don't really have any good advice, just as we're in the same boat. My youngest is almost 24 months and in the last 2 months it's like his teeth are just falling apart. We had dental issues with my older 2 and I've been SO vigilant about the xylitol, brushing and the wipes, the nutrition and the raw milk--but we just moved so everything is different--and I only just (today) found a dentist I hope will be ok.

My guy also would nurse all night if possible. I feel like he's so on the go during the day that he really makes up for it at night, and it will be a huge adjustment to nw. I'd love some other info that says it will be ok, but having gone through this before I really think with our dental makeup/saliva in this family, once my kids start eating regular foods in addition to bf, the night nursing turns into a destructive force on their teeth. It's awful and I don't know how we'll deal. I really feel like my boys need more nursing and more nursing in those quiet times.

[thixle]

to you both

IMO, night nursing has nothing to do with cavities. Nope, don't have studies to back me up (probably could find them if I tried), but I've been night nursing for 30 months and dd has no cavities. I think a variety of factors come into play for cavities, but just don't think night nursing is one-- really what is the difference between nursing during the day and night? Unless you brush your child's teeth after every nursing session...

[liam's mom]

melamama thank you for commiserating. quinn has been doing well with stretching out the night nursing sessions (slight fussing next to me, no freakouts or anything), so i am hoping that will help. his teeth don't look like they're getting any worse at all, which is reassuring to me.

thixle, i agree with you, for sure. the dentist did say we should be wiping his mouth out after every nursing session...that is just not going to happen. i do my best but that's totally not practical. i have asked around and there are definitely people who have kids who were prolific night nursers and never had ECC, so of course it's not a sure thing. ugh, i just hate feeling conflicted on what is best for him, yk?

anyway. thank you both!!

[dot1]

I can empathize! (see post re. cavities on ends of teeth....). I too was torn about the night nursing issue, and actually blamed myself for causing dd's teeth problems by allowing her mom's all night dairy diner to serve her every hour. I made some big changes (and she surprisingly adjusted quite well and actually sleeps much better) in helping her learn to fall asleep without nursing (lots of singing and back rubbing, etc.) and cut back the night nursings - we generally can hold off for 7-8 hours, and then it's every 1-2 hrs after. We're actually all a lot happier, more rested as a result (which is a benefit to attachment) and I at least feel like I'm in a position where I can say to the dentist that I did all the "right things" in their eyes.

Nevertheless.......... I believe the night nursing was only a factor, but not the cause. (I think food residue left in mouth combined with pregnancy fever-induced weak enamel and all night breastfeeding opened our caries floodgate) I've done some reading that affirms this hunch. If you haven't already, check out the following link to dental articles published by the La Leche League: http://www.llli.org/NB/NBdental.html

Here's an excerpt from one of the article that may help:

"Non-breastfeeding infants are at a higher risk for tooth decay when compared to breastfed babies (2, 20). Components present in human milk play a protective role. Immune factors such as Secretory IgA and IgG can slow the growth of the specific types of streptococcus mutans colonizing the child's mouth (21, 22). Lactoferrin in mothers' milk has a bacteriocidal effect (destroying bacteria), as well (6). Dr. Pamela Erickson studied the decay potential of various liquids (23, 24). Water had a decay potential of 0.00 and a 10 percent sucrose solution had a decay potential of 1.00. Human milk had a decay potential of 0.01, close to that of plain water. Various formulas differed in their ability to lower the pH, to support the growth of S. mutans, and to dissolve tooth enamel. Human milk did not lower the pH in plaque (the sticky usually colorless film on teeth that is formed by and harbors bacteria), and did not support the growth of S. mutans. Additionally, calcium and phosphorus in human milk were actually deposited on the tooth enamel. However, when 10 percent sucrose was added to human milk, the decay potential rose to 1.30. It was concluded that human milk by itself is not cariogenic."

My interpretation: Basically it's not breastfeeding that's a problem, it's the other stuff in our mouths that get mixed with breastmilk and alters saliva ph. If teeth are well cleaned before bedtime and diet generally good, then theoretically night nursing should be just fine.

I hope this helps reassure somewhat.

[liam's mom]

dot1, thank you!! how old is your baby? i too feel that a good stretch of sleep w/no nursing is going to be helpful to quinn (and as i wrote before, he's doing okay going several hours). we clean and brush his teeth like mad right before bed, so there shouldn't be too much of anything on there to combine with breastmilk and cause any problems. (i had read of that before, that it's other stuff combined with breastmilk that can be a problem.)

i hope you are able to halt the decay in your little one's teeth too...ugh, this just sucks, does it not? sigh.

[dot1]

She's only 11 months and one tooth actually came in missing a little chunk (looks like a chip on end of tooth). ya it's pretty annoying to deal with this so young...but we're otherwise really fortunate that she's otherwise very healthy My mom told me my teeth never got brushed until i could do it myself at 2 or 3!

Keep us posted as to how it goes and good luck!