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Has anyone done Dr. Jay Gordon's nightweaning plan? - Page 2

post #21 of 193
I did it when my daughter was 2 and it was extraordinarily easy. But she was 2.
post #22 of 193
Quote:
Originally Posted by TonyaW View Post
Anyway my son is underweight in the negative 5th percentile and my ped suggested that it was becasue he is nursing all night long and not eating enough solids in the daytime because he isn't hungry enough. Does anyone know if this is true and have a similar experience? I know waking too often can result in growth hormones being low too. If this is a strong possibility then night weaning will become a priority! I just feel so bad when he cries and begs and so exhausted when I can't sleep in the middle of the night!
I'm just lurking here cause I've been thinking about nightweaning, but I wanted to suggest that you ask this question in the breastfeeding forum, the ladies there are very knowledgeable about this kind of thing.
post #23 of 193
It would've been a hideous failure for either of mine at 13 months. Worked like a charm on my 1st at 19 months though.
post #24 of 193
Thread Starter 
NIGHT TWO! - Wow, DH and I can't believe it. The first time DS woke up last night, it only took him FIVE minutes to go back to sleep! And the second time he woke up, it only took abut THREE minutes!!

Okay, some details... DS fell asleep in the car on the way home from a friend's house, so when we transfered him to the bed, I nursed him (around 9:30pm). He woke up again around 10:20pm and I nursed him. So, like the night before, I knew he was pretty tanked up - although he didn't really eat much dinner that night, so I was a little worried about that. Anyway... DS woke up at 12:20am again and he was upset for about 30 seconds or a minute and then he calmed with singing and massaging and just rolled over and went back to sleep! Then, he woke up again around 3am. Same thing - upset for about 30 seconds then rolled over and was out!! Then things got a little tougher - he woke up around 4am and had a hard time getting back to sleep. He would fuss, then calm down and fall asleep for a few minutes, then wake up again, fuss, calm down, etc. It took about 30 minutes or so for him to fully go back to sleep. And what a cute guy - I think he just wanted to snuggle with me (even if he couldn't have milk) because he finally fell asleep in my arms all snuggled up to me. This was tough because I wondered if he was hungry since his last feeding had been about 5 or 6 hours earlier, but I knew that him getting back to sleep was crucial. He woke up again around 5:45am and I praised him and nursed him and he went back to sleep until 6:45am.

It really is amazing how fast he "got" the idea of no milk and went back to sleep (especially those first two times). DH and I are thrilled that it seems to be going over so well. I guess one of these nights DS will just stop waking up at those times since there's no reason to?

This waking pattern of 12:20am and 3 or 4am keeps justifying this process to me because even though they're just two wakings, they have made it so that I have not gotten more than 3 hours sleep at a time for such a long time. I am really happy that we are doing this and DS seems to really be ready to grasp it. He is his same normal happy self when he wakes up for good in the am and I even talk to him about how the milkies went night night and then woke up in the morning and he looks at me like he gets it or at least that he knows something is different with the milkies. Also, for me, last night was so much easier because I knew DS knew that the milkies weren't gone for good.

Of course, we're not out of the woods yet, but if you're one of the people considering night weaning your DC, I think something to consider is how easy it is to soothe them when they're upset - how well do they respond to it? If they are fairly easy to calm, then I imagine it would be a lot easier then if they are not easily calmed.

Also, a few pp's had said that this worked better for them when their DCs were older (two, I think) and that makes sense, but I would also argue that doing it a bit earlier could possibly be easier (depending on your DC). Right now, although my DS can communicate with me, he can't try to bargain or talk his way out this. When they are older, although you can definitely reason with them more, they are also able to reason with you (which might make it a bit tougher, IMO). Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that earlier is better, but it's just something to think about.

That's all for now! I'd love to hear thoughts from those who have BTDT (and those who haven't)
post #25 of 193
thanks so much for posting your progress. i like that you write here everynight to explain what happened. My little one isn't a great sleeper and i dont think we're ready to stop co-sleeping.. i'm gonna keep a watch on this thread to see your progress.. if its good then ill start this with my boy(he'll be 13 mths by then)
post #26 of 193
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Natalie143 View Post
thanks so much for posting your progress. i like that you write here everynight to explain what happened. My little one isn't a great sleeper and i dont think we're ready to stop co-sleeping.. i'm gonna keep a watch on this thread to see your progress.. if its good then ill start this with my boy(he'll be 13 mths by then)
Hi! Just wanted to let you know that we're still co-sleeping throughout this and plan to continue. And, Dr. Gordon's plan is for people who co-sleep, so that's part of the whole thing. For me, I wouldn't feel comfortable night weaning and stopping co-sleeping. I still love snuggling and feeling his little feet at night - it's just the waking up every three hours that I don't love!
post #27 of 193
exactly thats why i want to know if this particular plan works because it includes cosleeping!! how was last night?
post #28 of 193
Thread Starter 
NIGHT THREE! I'll try to tell what I remember of it...

Again, DS is not eating very many solids these past couple of days, so I am eager to nurse him as much as possible before we tuck in for the night. Last night, he woke up about three times before 11pm. I could tell something was off because it was like he just couldn't get comfortable... ah yes, I suspect teething (the finger in the mouth is usually a tell-tale sign for us). And, DS usually has one or two nights of bad sleep with teething, but not a big run, so we're hoping this doesn't last.

Anyway, the third time DS woke up before we went to bed, I didn't nurse him because he had literally just nursed both sides about five minutes before that. I started to massage him and he immediately rolled over and put himself to sleep! I think he is totally on board with that whole idea, which I'm elated about!!

Then, it started... he woke up last night about every hour or hour and a half. :yawning: That part sucked - he never does that, but what was amazing was that he kept putting himself back to sleep and didn't nurse until 5:45am. And, he barely even fussed - never a real true cry. He just kept trying to roll over to escape the teething pain. I would massage him to help him fall back asleep again, but I was so tired that I couldn't even sing and sadly for my ego, he didn't seem to miss it! I think the singing/humming is a great tool for when he's crying - to distract him from that - but it doesn't seem necessary when he's just trying to go back to sleep. DS never once tried to nurse and once he put himself back to sleep around 4:45am, when he woke up at 5:45am, I nursed him. He was on the boob FOREVER (for him) and nursed both sides. When he finally pulled off (with a little nudging from me), he spit up a huge amount of milk and then easily fell back to sleep. I think what happened was that when he finally did nurse, he was comfort nursing and he got way too much milk (the fact that I probably had a ton of milk in there from not nursing all night probably didn't help).

I have to say that even though him waking so often was brutal, I am so happy that we had started this because if we had not, he probably would have been waking AND nursing every hour and that might've set me over the edge! I still feel good about where we're at with night-weaning and I'm hoping that tonight has less disruptions. DH reminded me that at our last visit, Dr. Gordon said that rarely will there be a 10-day window in which there isn't a cold, teething, milestone, digestive issue or some other thing that gets in the way of this process, so having a few "lost" nights are to be expected.

Another thing that's been happening is that DS's napping has been getting so much easier. Today, I just nursed him down and after I knew he was asleep, I pulled my nipple out of his mouth. He did the searching for the nipple face and before I could even decide to give it back to him or not, he closed his mouth and settled. I think that is due to the night weaning and DS knowing that it's okay if the milky isn't there.

I know there's another thread going on right now with another mom who is doing this process and she had talked about two things that I thought were interesting. First, she had asked if Dr. Gordon's plan was harsher than the other ones. I have not read a lot about other plans, but my feeling is this - the plan isn't what determines how much crying there will be (unless you're doing CIO, obviously) - it's your DC's ability to be soothed that determines it. Regardless of which plan you use, the bottom line is still that you're telling your DC that they can't nurse in the middle of the night when they're sleepy and just want to nurse and fall back asleep. IMO, it's all about how easily comforted they are and how easily they adjust to being told "No."

Secondly, I think she (or another poster) raised the question about whether or not her DH should be doing the soothing and/or should she remove herself from the situation totally. Again, I think it depends on your DC. If they are not easily soothed and crying for a long time (which it sounded like was happening in the case I'm talking about), then maybe just having the dad there might be the way to go. For us, I had originally thought that DH would be picking up a lot of the slack because I thought DS would keep trying to get into my shirt, but quite the opposite has happened. He still seems to want to be soothed by me and to be cuddled by me. He will roll over to DH, but he usually comes back to me and then both DH and I rub him. For me, I think it would blow DS's mind if I were not there since I've been there every night since he was born. In our experience, the less we have been changing, the better. The only thing that is different is milkies are sleeping at night and that's it.

So, I am sort of looking at last night as a wash - no gain, no loss. Although I guess you could call DS being okay with no milkies all night a gain. DS took a short nap today (1 hour) even though he barely slept last night (again, I think teething is the culprit), so I am curious to see what tonight brings.

Again, I'd love to hear any thoughts or insight.
post #29 of 193
Thank you for continuing to post your up dates. I don't have time to write too much but I am getting a lot out of what your posting, we are in the middle of the same plan.
post #30 of 193
I'm very glad to read this thread. I haven't heard of Dr. Gordon, but I'm looking for it now...

I nurse my little one 3-4 times a night, but the problem for me is that I fall asleep in a funny position and wake up with an achy back. I would really love even four or five hours of uninterrupted sleep. My husband usually sleeps through it all so he may not be crazy about trying this!

My DD is only 8 months old, is it too early to try this?
post #31 of 193
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by wilson View Post
I'm very glad to read this thread. I haven't heard of Dr. Gordon, but I'm looking for it now...

I nurse my little one 3-4 times a night, but the problem for me is that I fall asleep in a funny position and wake up with an achy back. I would really love even four or five hours of uninterrupted sleep. My husband usually sleeps through it all so he may not be crazy about trying this!

My DD is only 8 months old, is it too early to try this?
I only have a quick sec, so I will give more info about night 4 later, but I just wanted to say that according to Dr. Gordon, the earliest you should do this is 12 months, so yes, I think 8 months is too young. I totally understand about the achy back though - that's so tough
post #32 of 193
Thread Starter 
NIGHT FOUR! So, DS is definitely teething in a major way right now. He has a fever, constantly has his finger in his mouth, swollen upper gums, can't get comfortable while "sleeping" and is not interested in solids right now. This all makes me conflicted about the whole night-weaning thing, but like Dr. Gordon told us, it's going to be hard to find a 10-day period in which something isn't going on. Our take on it last night was to keep up with the night-weaning plan unless DS really needed it or was upset. The most important thing is that DS healthy and sleeping.

DS woke up about 4 or 5 times before 11pm last night, so he was pretty tanked up for the night. But he just could not get comfortable or stay asleep for very long - not to mention that he only took an hour nap during the day.

But, after 11-ish when he woke up, I didn't offer the breast and he didn't seem to care (or try to get in my shirt). He was fine with just being massaged (no singing again!). He didn't cry, just fussed while trying to get comfortable. Every time I looked at him, his eyes were closed, so I think he was barely even waking up (which gives me high hopes for when he's able to sleep again). He woke up about ever 2 hours or so. I fed him from one side around 5:30am and I held off on the other side until around 6am, but he just couldn't get back to sleep, so I offered it to him and he ate again and then rolled over and barfed again like the morning before! He then fell asleep until 6:45am. I'm not totally sure what to make of this, but I think it has something to do with my high milk supply in the AM and DS being on the breast longer with some comfort nursing for the teeth and therefore getting a lot more milk. Also, with the fever, I think eating too much is not a good thing, so that could be part of it. Regardless of why, it wasn't happening the first two days (before teething kicked in), so I'm not really concerned about it.

So, that's where we're at. Again, seems like a bit of a wash last night, but technically speaking, DS does seem to be night-weaned. It's just that he's still waking for other reasons. I really can't believe that he's totally cool with no milk all night, but he is!
post #33 of 193
Can I just tell you, you are my HERO!!!!!! I had joined this forum awhile ago, but am on another, local one, so I had not been paying much attention to this one. But as of late, we have been going through some sleep struggles with our 13-month old, too and I thought it would be a good idea to broden my circle a bit to see what other mommas are doing.

And low and behold, your posting! This sounds cheesy, but I feel we are kindered spirits in terms of our night-time issues. All of the things that you have described in relation to your situation parallel mine in an almost freaky way. So, thank you so much for not only starting this thread, but continuing to post updates. I really appreciate you "leading the way" on this.

I am going to be doing this with my DD probably starting tonight or tomorrow. The biggest issue for us is that we currently don't co-sleep and in my mind, I think that closer you are to your baby for comforting them during this time, the better (right?). So, that means we have to physically make some changes to our room to make this happen.

But again, thanks for sharing and inspiring. I hope to be able to report back the same.
post #34 of 193
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by terpgirl23 View Post
Can I just tell you, you are my HERO!!!!!! I had joined this forum awhile ago, but am on another, local one, so I had not been paying much attention to this one. But as of late, we have been going through some sleep struggles with our 13-month old, too and I thought it would be a good idea to broden my circle a bit to see what other mommas are doing.

And low and behold, your posting! This sounds cheesy, but I feel we are kindered spirits in terms of our night-time issues. All of the things that you have described in relation to your situation parallel mine in an almost freaky way. So, thank you so much for not only starting this thread, but continuing to post updates. I really appreciate you "leading the way" on this.

I am going to be doing this with my DD probably starting tonight or tomorrow. The biggest issue for us is that we currently don't co-sleep and in my mind, I think that closer you are to your baby for comforting them during this time, the better (right?). So, that means we have to physically make some changes to our room to make this happen.

But again, thanks for sharing and inspiring. I hope to be able to report back the same.
Hi! Thanks for your kind words It's good to know that my postings are actually helping someone and not just cluttering the web!

I'm interested to hear how things go for you too. Please keep me updated and good luck! BTW - I'm going to post about night 5 below...
post #35 of 193
Thread Starter 
NIGHT FIVE!! Oh wait, before that, Dr. Gordon called to check in on us and I finally got to ask him my burning questions...

I told him about the teething/fever and said that DS seemed to be taking to the night weaning fine, but was waking up a ton for other reasons. Dr. Gordon said that it would be better if we could stick with it, but that if we felt we couldn't (or DS shouldn't), then we could always stop and restart later. But he did emphasize that we should try to keep at it since he's been so responsive.

I also asked if the idea was just that when there's no milkies at night anymore, they just stop waking up for them and he responded and said yes, that it's all about changing patterns, which I thought was an interesting way to put it since yes, it does feel that this waking (pre night weaning) was just a pattern that needed some tweaking, not really a "need."

Then I asked Dr. Gordon about the barfing in the AM and he said it was totally normal and due to my large morning milk supply and my DS gorging himself. He said it might happen for a few more days, but it would stop soon.

Lastly, I asked him about the window before 11pm and if our DS will just slowly stop waking then too or will we need to wean him off of that too at some point. Dr. Gordon said that it takes about a month, but DS will push his non-waking backwards so that he is eventually not waking at all. That sounded great to me!

Okay, onto night 5... Honestly, I can barely remember as far as last night... oh wait, yes, how could I forget? DS was like a barnacle on me all day yesterday (the teething and fever, I think) and nursed like CRAZY all day. I was worried that we would have to forgo the night weaning last night because he'd need my nipple in his mouth for comfort. And, he woke up about 10 times before we got to bed (around 10:30pm), so I was a little out of my mind already. But, when DS woke up after we came to bed, I didn't nurse him and he didn't try (as usual) which shocked me since he'd had my nipple in his mouth all day. Again, he just tried to get comfortable to fall asleep again. So, we had a pretty good night in that respect. He still hasn't had milkies in the middle of the night since we started last Friday. Even though he's waking a ton, he did give me a little 3 hour stretch that was nice. He woke up at 4:30am and I rubbed him to sleep (we're talking about 15 seconds here) and then he woke up again at 5:45am and I nursed him on one side only and then he fell back asleep and slept until 7:30am. I nursed him on the other side when he woke up and that way there was no barfing - yay!

This whole thing is so bizarre to me because we're on night five and I still can't get a handle for how this is going to really work since DS is waking up so freakin' much because of unrelated issues!! I can't wait until we're back on an even keel so I can know how the night weaning will be integrated. But, like I say every time, I still think it's a success since he's okay with no milkies during the night. I guess it feels so strange too because I should feel this huge sense of relief and rest, but I don't because I'm waking up even more than usual! But, I am happy that my boobs at least get to sleep all night
post #36 of 193
Quote:
Originally Posted by happy2bamama View Post
NIGHT FIVE!! Oh wait, before that, Dr. Gordon called to check in on us and I finally got to ask him my burning questions...

I told him about the teething/fever and said that DS seemed to be taking to the night weaning fine, but was waking up a ton for other reasons. Dr. Gordon said that it would be better if we could stick with it, but that if we felt we couldn't (or DS shouldn't), then we could always stop and restart later. But he did emphasize that we should try to keep at it since he's been so responsive.

I also asked if the idea was just that when there's no milkies at night anymore, they just stop waking up for them and he responded and said yes, that it's all about changing patterns, which I thought was an interesting way to put it since yes, it does feel that this waking (pre night weaning) was just a pattern that needed some tweaking, not really a "need."
Thanks again for sharing. I totally agree with this - that's it's all about conditioning. I really don't think my babe NEEDS to eat at night so much as she is used to (and has been conditioned) to do so. I honestly, mostly blame myself for this. I am sort of a "one-trick pony" in the sense that when she needs comfort, I immediately offer the breast. Hey, it works - why mess with it? But really, I think this experience is going to be about both of us learningl her not to need to nurse to find comfort and me, as a momma, to discover other ways I can sooth my baby.

Silly question here - where is Dr. Gordon's office located? What state are you in?

Thanks again for sharing. Such an inspiration.
post #37 of 193

happy2bamama

What teeth is your LO working on? Just curious b/c my DD is working on her two upper first year molars. And she's up a ton. I also feel like there is never a time when something isn't going on (teething, developmental milestone, cold), and she is like I was - slow to get teeth and so only has 7 at 17 months. Others have told me it's easier when they have all their teeth, but for my DD it probably won't happen until she's 2.5. So, just curious what your thoughts are as your LO is going through nightweaning while teething - do you think it will still work? - and are you concerned for the future when he gets more teeth and how it will affect his sleep? Just curioius, not trying to question your judgement, I'm trying to figure out the best time for me to nightwean my DD as the it's just getting to be too much. I appreciate your advice!
post #38 of 193
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by terpgirl23 View Post
Thanks again for sharing. I totally agree with this - that's it's all about conditioning. I really don't think my babe NEEDS to eat at night so much as she is used to (and has been conditioned) to do so. I honestly, mostly blame myself for this. I am sort of a "one-trick pony" in the sense that when she needs comfort, I immediately offer the breast. Hey, it works - why mess with it? But really, I think this experience is going to be about both of us learningl her not to need to nurse to find comfort and me, as a momma, to discover other ways I can sooth my baby.

Silly question here - where is Dr. Gordon's office located? What state are you in?

Thanks again for sharing. Such an inspiration.
Hi again! Please do not beat up on yourself or "blame" yourself for "conditioning" your babe. You did the natural thing - offer the breast when that's what the baby wanted. No harm in that. I think it's awesome that you (and I!) have offered the breast to our babes at night this long.

I found it interesting to see how DS was with soothing other than from the breast. I had a feeling he'd take to it well because he was never one of those babies that you have to pry off the nipple (maybe once or twice) and most of the time when he nurses to sleep, he'll pull off the nipple, roll over and "tuck in" (roll on his stomach) and fall asleep. My thought was, I won't know how he'll take to it unless I try and I can always back out whenever I want if I feel like I need to.

BTW - Dr. Gordon is in Southern California.

Good luck to you in whatever you decide - can't wait to hear about it!
post #39 of 193
Thread Starter 
NIGHT SIX!! Again, DS barely took a nap yesterday and after getting him to bed, he woke up about 8 times before we finally went to bed. I felt like I was going to lose my mind since he'd been on me ALL day and I was getting no break whatsoever. But poor guy - his top gums are so swelled up and ready to pop. I also wonder if he's cutting a bunch at a time because his first two teeth never made him like this.

Anyhoo... after we came to bed, he did a decent stretch and woke up around 2am. This was the first time he tried for the boob - just rolling over and opening his mouth, not actually tugging at my shirt. I waited to see if this was "for real" or not and he was upset for about 10 seconds and then settled after I massaged him. Then he woke up around 4:30am and tried for the boob in the same way and again, I waited to see what happened and this time he fussed for about 30 seconds. I was so torn with what to do because at this point, I remembered that he'd been a little dehydrated and so I wanted to nurse him to give him the fluids, but I also didn't want him to associate fussing with getting milkies at night. I wanted him to put himself to sleep again - even if for two minutes - so that when he woke up, I could then nurse him without the fussing connection. After those 30 seconds, he did settle and fall asleep again, but woke up 10 minutes later, which I was happy about because then I could nurse him. He fed on one side (didn't barf!) and fell asleep again until 7:15am.

I'm hoping tonight's better (but not getting my hopes up). DS didn't have a fever all day. He only took a 45 minute nap, but he fell asleep in a lot more normal way tonight, so I'm hoping that's a sign of things returning to "normal."

I have to say, there is this tiny little thing in the back of my head wondering if the night weaning is causing any of this disruption, but I feel like he'd be letting us know at night if he really needed (or even REALLY wanted) milk. It's not like he's upset and begging for it - when it's not available in 30 seconds or less, he goes back to sleep. I think this is all related to the crazy teething going on, but I can't help but be thinking about the night weaning. I guess I'll know once these teeth pop through.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Keirasmommy View Post
What teeth is your LO working on? Just curious b/c my DD is working on her two upper first year molars. And she's up a ton. I also feel like there is never a time when something isn't going on (teething, developmental milestone, cold), and she is like I was - slow to get teeth and so only has 7 at 17 months. Others have told me it's easier when they have all their teeth, but for my DD it probably won't happen until she's 2.5. So, just curious what your thoughts are as your LO is going through nightweaning while teething - do you think it will still work? - and are you concerned for the future when he gets more teeth and how it will affect his sleep? Just curioius, not trying to question your judgement, I'm trying to figure out the best time for me to nightwean my DD as the it's just getting to be too much. I appreciate your advice!
No worries about the teething question! In fact, that was/is one of my biggest concerns with this. DS only has two teeth (yes, only two!) - the middle bottom ones, so we have a loooooooong way to go. I think he's currently working on his top middle teeth, but who knows there could be a whole bunch more - maybe he's making up for lost time?

For what it's worth, here's my take on the teething and night weaning - yes, they're essentially always teething (or have a cold, or milestone, like you said) and some nights are bad (like my last 3) and some are okay. For me, I would rather get some decent sleep (read: night wean) on those nights that teething isn't disturbing us so much and then have to "give in" and nurse on those few terrible nights and start the process over again than not night wean at all because I'm worried about what to do on those few terrible nights. I don't feel like I have lost my soothing tool because A. I now know DS can be soothed by something other than my breast and B. I can always change my mind and give him my breast should he really need it during those times. I only know this now because we've tried it with my DS and he's handling it really well, so even if we have to stop and start again, I think he'll get it again really quickly. And since DS is having the worst teething nights of his life right now, but he's ok with no nursing at night, maybe it won't even be an issue for us (but from what I hear about molars, that might not be the case)! Even though I have to wake up and pat DS when he's been waking up these past nights, it only takes a few minutes - if that - which for me, is easier than nursing. I also think if he was night nursing right now he'd would probably be latched for quite a while - making me the human pacifier - so I'm glad to have reprieve from that as long as DS is okay with it too. I am not expecting that night weaning will stop all night wakings. The last six nights have taught me that! But, I'm hoping to just have it be better - not all the time - but just some of the time. Any extra sleep I can get is a good thing. I'm not thinking this is going to be the magic key to STTN, but it's a step in the right direction.

BTW - I loooooooooooooove not having to change a diaper in the middle of the night. That is the best!!

Good luck with whatever you decide to do. I hope you find something that works for you and your babe I'd love to hear how it goes if you decide to do it.
post #40 of 193
Mama, you are doing a great service to many parents with your Night Weaning Journal!

We used the same method when dd2 was 15 months with mixed results. So, I want to address this:
DH and I are thrilled that it seems to be going over so well. I guess one of these nights DS will just stop waking up at those times since there's no reason to?

My dd2 was very wakeful and unhappy during our night weaning experience until I figured out that we were actually waking her up at night! When I realized this, I moved her bed out into the hall (with a little nest built around her) since we were in a tiny two bedroom condo, and she immediately started sleeping through the night - like six and seven hour stretches! So, sometimes it's the nursing, sometimes it's those pesky parents! :
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