Can you speak to this?

[teacup]

I've done some reading (here and in books), talking (with a directress I know fairly well) and watching (hung out at the potential school solo and today, with kiddo).

Random questions and concerns:

-Is the period where she settles into M (from traditional preschool) going to squash some of her confidence? She felt disciplined and embarrassed today when a directress reminded her that she couldn't mix work. Further, when she lashed out (verbally, saying, "Don't talk to me!") she became more embarrassed when the di told her she couldn't talk to teachers that way. (Even further, am I a lame, unsupportive parent for saying, "You can't talk to anyone that way; if you're embrassed , say that instead," instead of articulating immediately, "You're feeling embarassed and would like some time to yourself; please say that instead.")

-Is she too sensitive for the kind of direction she'd get there? Is there another M school that would have gentler redirection? (I failed to tell her that she could not mix work from trays and another di told us/her that. See below for more, I guess.) It wasn't harsh, just not cheerful. Or not even that. Just...minute, you know. Just the details. Do this, but not that. Yes to this, but no to that. Learning the boundaries and expectations will lead her somewhere that I'm not sure she can follow at this point. M may have worked better for her at the start of her school career (in Sep). She was more timid then. (ie Physical closeness with kids made her feel threatened. Regular kid stuff, like bumping into each other.)

-How do you reconcile your desire for the things M focuses on (good citizenship, focus, self direction, meaningful work) with the intimidation you see your child potentially feeling? Things would be different if she were clearer on expectations, but what a painful thing to hear someone say, "You can't play with that in x way" or "for x reason." (But then, why is it painful to me? Am I embarassed for her? That and something else? What?) The very outcome of "We play with it this way for x reason" is so those focii (good citizenship, etc) become a part of her character.

Thank for any insight or anecdotes you can share. Or other things.

[KBecks]

I think adapting to change is part of any transition to a classroom, whether it is an M classroom or not. If she were in a traditional preschool she would also be corrected at times and told what to do, when to line up, and what's acceptable and what is not.

I would be more concerned with the tone and attitude of the teacher than anything else. If the teacher is balanced and also shows love and caring for your daughter during the day, then I think it's fine. If the teacher is always aloof or cold then I'd be concerned about whether it's a good match.

I totally understand the high level of concern over the details of the first school experience. I have memories from kindergarten and first grade of doing something incorrectly and feeling bad over it, and once being criticized for it by the teacher. I think it's important to give your daughter reassurance that she's learning and that it's just fine to make mistakes and get things wrong because that's how we all learn. In fact, mistakes and experimentation should be encouraged! I'd rather see a child who is willing to try than who is afraid of making mistakes. I think it's great that your daughter verbalized her feelings (and I don't think what she said was that bad, I think she just could be coached on choosing a better phrase). I think it's important when a child makes a mistake not to overreact to the mistake or make it seem like it's the end of the world, but to give instruction and correction and then encourage the child that it's OK to move on and keep her spirits up. This may be a bad Supernanny analogy but after the time out, a child gets a hug and is told they are loved and now let's go have some fun. I think an upbeat and positive attitude will help a lot rather than becoming hyper focused on the mistake. Expect mistakes as an important and essential part of the process.

I think if she's feeling intimidated then either the teacher is being too harsh or your daughter is expecting herself to be perfect all the time. You might suggest to the teacher that you feel your daughter may need a little more encouragement to balance the criticism if she tends to be perfectionistic and focus on her mistakes. You may want to evaluate if you have perfectionist tendencies as well.

[GuildJenn]

I guess what concerns me a little in what you've said is not getting where the instruction happened. At our school the works are presented so that the child is shown the details of how they work before he or she is expected to use them.

I don't personally care so much if my son uses them "correctly" (he's 2.5) but HE cares and so the security of being shown is important to him. That might be the step that was missing and if so, was it just an unusual first day sort of thing, or is it the general way the day goes at that school?

On the broader issue of feeling intimidated or learning minute details, I think I agree that pretty much any change of school is going to be a bit fraught for a child. I don't think Montessori is any better or worse at that - meaning not the method. Any particular school might be better or worse at managing transitions.

For the minute details, I think you might be underestimating your daughter a little bit, provided the instruction is in small steps and done appropriately at the time that your daughter is interested and ready to absorb it. I've been amazed at how with a task properly broken down my son can master it, and I have realized that little kids actually do tend to be better in many ways at the minute details - their little minds are so ready to learn. It's sort of like how when you're a kid you lie on the floor and absorb all the details of that room, but as an adult you don't often slow down to do that.

[MattBronsil]

Originally Posted by teacup

-Is the period where she settles into M (from traditional preschool) going to squash some of her confidence? She felt disciplined and embarrassed today when a directress reminded her that she couldn't mix work. Further, when she lashed out (verbally, saying, "Don't talk to me!") she became more embarrassed when the di told her she couldn't talk to teachers that way. (Even further, am I a lame, unsupportive parent for saying, "You can't talk to anyone that way; if you're embrassed , say that instead," instead of articulating immediately, "You're feeling embarassed and would like some time to yourself; please say that instead.")

You're not a lame, unsupportive parent. You're right. We do not talk to people that way.

Aside from a transition issue, I may be a little confused over what the problem is here. The director reminded her that we do not mix work and she (as you said) "lashed out." The director then reminded her, from what I see, that this is not how we treat each other. Then it sounds like you discovered later what the issue was and gave her a strategy to handle it next time.

It sounds like a fantastic learning experience, actually. Am I missing something? Did the director say it harshly?

-Is she too sensitive for the kind of direction she'd get there? Is there another M school that would have gentler redirection? (I failed to tell her that she could not mix work from trays and another di told us/her that. See below for more, I guess.) It wasn't harsh, just not cheerful.

It sounds like she just said, "We don't mix materials." That's not something that normally requires one to be cheerful to say. I would personally look at someone crazy if they told me that cheerfully and wonder what they're so happy about.

I'd be annoyed if they said it harshly, but you mentioned that was not the case.

Just the details. Do this, but not that. Yes to this, but no to that. Learning the boundaries and expectations will lead her somewhere that I'm not sure she can follow at this point.

?? Are you saying she is cannot learn boundaries? I hope not.

-How do you reconcile your desire for the things M focuses on (good citizenship, focus, self direction, meaningful work) with the intimidation you see your child potentially feeling?

I do not understand the intimidation aspect. The thing you mentioned was the director reminding your daughter of a rule....well...2 rules, really. This is the first time you mentioned intimidation. What, exactly, happened that was intimidating?

Things would be different if she were clearer on expectations,

You mentioned above that the director was being clear on the expectations. You said:

a directress reminded her that she couldn't mix work. Further, when she lashed out (verbally, saying, "Don't talk to me!") she became more embarrassed when the di told her she couldn't talk to teachers that way.

There are 2 expectations that are clearly stated.

but what a painful thing to hear someone say, "You can't play with that in x way" or "for x reason." (But then, why is it painful to me? Am I embarassed for her? That and something else? What?) The very outcome of "We play with it this way for x reason" is so those focii (good citizenship, etc) become a part of her character.

I do not know. I don't see how it is painful. It sounds like a reasonable reminder.

Sorry if I asked too many questions...I am just confused over this post. I hope you can clarify it for me. I sometimes read things and miss something and feel silly when it's pointed out to me. Please let me know if I have done so.

Matt

[Flor]

I'm not sure if I'm understanding, but your post reminded me off a conversation I had recently with a mom whose child was in our M school last year but this year is in a play-based school. She said that the rules and routines of M made her son withdraw, that he felt insecure and was never sure if he was doing things "right" and that it carried over into the home. Our son had the opposite experience (same teacher, btw). He is generally shy and sensitive, but he has blossomed in the M enviroment because he always knows what is expected. He knows all the routines and boundaries and this gives him confidence to be himself. Again, same teacher, same environment, but two different reactions.


I think there is a transition where the child is learning about the classroom. There are probably more routines, lessons and rules in a M classroom and learning those will probably make her nervous. After that period (a few weeks?) she will know the classroom and will have freedom to do what she is interested in. I think the level of control, rules, routine, is surprising to some parents, but I think it is necessary for the kids to know in order that they can be free and independant all day. For example, there is a routine to washing your hands therefore the teacher doesn't have to supervise each kid who wants to wash their hands. They can do it themeselves, whenever they want. If there was no routine, just do what you want, how you want, the teacher would be superivsing, cleaning up, etc. and probably having group hand-washing times at some point throughout the day.

It can be exhausting for some kids to learn the routines and boundaries, but I think it is worth it in the end.

Am I totally off topic?

[Lillianna]

The OP brings up a valid point and a true Montessori Directress knows not to go around correcting the children's errors. We observe and then present at a neutral time. There is no rule that "we don't mix work". Children often find creative inspiration through putting materials together in thoughtful and imaginative ways. However, if they are misusing materials at any time (damaging or destructive) we ask that it be put away and offer more appropriate choices.

I agree with Flor, GuildJenn and Kbecks. Your daughter will have to accept the direction of her teacher if she is going to have a positive and successful experience there but it does matter that it is done in a gentle way and sensitive to your dd's feelings.

There are procedures to follow that allow the children to be independent but there is no way on Earth I could possibly watch each child to be sure they are repeating the steps in exact sequence. The reason for the clear, slow and exact presentation is to give the child something to practice at. We don't expect mastery right away. There is always a practice period. There are two main rules for Montessori: 1. Respect people (including yourself). 2. Care for the environment. These should be the basis for the Directress to consider whenever she is responding to the child.

[honeybee]

My ds1 is a pretty sensitive kid, too, and he is doing wonderfully in his M classroom. I've been in the classroom quite often and his teacher is always very quiet and gentle with the children, even when offering correction... and there are a couple of children in there whom I, personally, would want to shake on a daily basis (well, not literally). She has the patience of a saint, and I've never heard her say anything remotely negative about a child. My ds is a POKEY dresser... he takes forever to get all his snow stuff on. But she just says she thinks he gets a little overwhelmed with all the bustle and activity during that time and gets distracted. She always gives kids the benefit of the doubt.

So, I think you have a valid concern. I would try taking your dd's teacher aside and just tell her that your dd responds best to gentle instructions and clear expectations. I think an adult can say something matter-of-factly that a sensitive child will take to heart more than other children might. So, the teacher probably just needs to be made aware of your dd's needs. I don't think it's a M problem per say, more a transition issue and working with the teacher to understand what your dd needs.