Bi/trilingual families-- need advice

[Marylizah]

Hi multi-cultural mamas!

I need some advice.

DH, DS and I just moved from France to the US. DH is Lebanese and I'm American. DS was born in France and from birth on I've spoken to him in English and DH has spoken to him in Arabic. DS picked up a lot of French just from day-to-day life, in fact his forst word was in French.

Now we're in the States, so English is everywhere. It's really important to me that DS learns French-- after all he was born there and has citizenship. So what should we do? Should I start speaking to him in French exclusively? It doesn't feel totally natural to me, although I am fluent.

Any advice would be appreciated.

[Danelle78]

Are there any French families with which you could schedule play times? Where I grew up, Michelin had a headquarters nearby, so we had French families within our community.

[kriket]

horrah for multi-lingual!

i've always heard that to avoid confusion you should have one person per language, like you speak french and DH speaks arabic. because he is in the states he will learn english from others.
we had a german next door neighbor that would have me come babysit and speak french so that only daddy and the babysitter spoke french, mom spoke german and the world around her spoke english. My french is poor, but good enough for a baby : ) she ended up speaking grenglish for a while but it worked out in the end. I think being multi lingual is one of the most important things you can expose a child to, Kudos to you!

[EVC]

Originally Posted by Danelle78

Are there any French families with which you could schedule play times? Where I grew up, Michelin had a headquarters nearby, so we had French families within our community.

:

Playgroups with French speaking children your son's age are definitely the way to go. Children learn SO MUCH from one another, and being able to play and communicate with a fun friend is a very strong motivation for learning language. I would start the lanaguage at home first--speak with him in French, read to him in French, watch French cartoons, sing French songs. When a foundation has be laid, find him some French speaking friends to play with regularly (especially if those French speaking friends speak ONLY French)--in most cases, you will see his language take off from there.

i've always heard that to avoid confusion you should have one person per language, like you speak french and DH speaks arabic.

You know, there may be some confusion initially, but it does work itself out. It is certainly not necessary to stick to one OPOL--in fact, depending on a family's specific circumstances, OPOL may NOT be the most effective way to go. Like anything, it works for some, but not for others. Really depends on the family. I think people get overly worried about language confusion in children--it is perfectly normal for bi/tri/multilingual children to confuse languages, mix languages, etc. But it's not a big deal, really. It works out as the child grows older and develops more linguistic finesse. The important thing is the early exposure to each language (preferably from birth, preferably for a large part of the day). Any confusion generally does work itself out as the child gets older

[Bruden]

Yes! Do it now before the habit of speaking English takes over and you really think it feels awkward. I moved to the US (from Sweden) with my 3-year old son with whom I'd exclusively spoke English with. Overnight we switched to Swedish and he was fine. It was a little bumpy for me but we got through it and now 4 years later he's fluent, goes to Swedish school and of course has great English.

[hakeber]

I think he's probably young enough that you could switch without it being weird for him, but if it's not natural for you to speak to him in French, it could be confusing for you.

I am actually in a similar sort of situation. dh and I spoke purely in English to Benjamin and he got spanish from the rest of the community, his nursery, his babysitters, our housekeeper, our friends, etc. Now we are in Scotland, and I don't want him to lose it, but niether do I want him learning MY spanish.

I've just arranged for him to enter a spanish speaking playgroup once a week, and as a result I've hooked up with lots of other families that speak spanish, so that he can have some playmates and some native speakers around him.

With luck he'll keep enough of his spanish until we go back to spanish speaking country again.

[yamilee21]

Originally Posted by Marylizah

...Should I start speaking to him in French exclusively? It doesn't feel totally natural to me, although I am fluent.

In your situation, I would not begin exclusively speaking to him in French. I would look for playgroups, read books in French, play DVDs and music in French, and maybe speak French some of the time, but there is something to be said for the authenticity of communication. Speaking multiple languages is valuable (I speak four fluently myself), but the quality and naturalness of the language is important, too. I am looking at this from a kind of opposite perspective though, having studied language and child development, and education, and coming from an immigrant culture within the U.S. in which a lot of people don't value their native language enough to speak it to their children. What often ends up happening is that the parents speak English exclusively to the children, but even when that English is "good enough" or fluent, there are tons of things that they never talk about with their children, because of the effort it takes to translate life experiences into a second language, when you live and think about them in the first language. In other words, many opportunities for spontaneous conversations are lost, leading to a less rich language experience at home.

You could conceivably force yourself to provide as close to an authentic language experience for your son in French as you would in English, but given that you have already established an English language mode of communication, I think it would be a bit harder to switch. Just to give some examples - I speak French exclusively with my son, but I can't force my mouth to make more than one sentence in English to him, ever. And when he speaks English to me, it is only to make brief jokes, or try out some phrase he picked up from television. I have some friends who speak Spanish to their children. I can speak to their children in Spanish, but having already mentally assigned English as our common language, my friends and I can't carry on natural conversations in Spanish to each other, no matter how hard we try.

[delfin]

when i started hearing about this OPOL method, i wondered how to make it work. im spanish speaking, my partner english. we use english between us, but i try to do more spanglish so he learns. i speak spanish to the baby when it's just us, but when my partner is around, i tend to use english....the community is mostly spanish...wow, i'm dizzy now...no entiendo....
anyway, i think my son is going to learn both languages, doesn't matter wich one first, and it's ok if he mixes them a little.
but the question is...if i teach him to sign...wich sign language?american?english?argentinian?

[aprilushka]

Well, my opinion is that if you want your kid to speak it passably living in the US, you'll have to spend a lot of time on it at home and sort of fence English time in instead of the other way around. I think it will start to feel natural once you do it a lot. I speak Russian to my kids even though it's not my native language and I still have to look up some things in the dictionary when they ask me-- and I figure all that does is make it more natural to them to use a dictionary

[kateena]

I think yamilee21 has a lot of good points. I personally don't think it's only a language you pass on to your children, it's a whole set of values, a sense of humor, etc. Things you just can't pass on if it's not your mother tongue. And as someone who grew up speaking two languages, I can tell you that I as a kid thought it was really funny that my Dad had an accent in English, whereas I didn't (not then, anyway). His English is perfect grammatically, but I just always knew it wasn't his language, it just didn't feel right. I think I would probably try to find other French speakers, and then speak French when you're with them, but I wouldn't speak French with him just for the sake of it. But I'm also a purist when it comes to languages, so you might find other advice more helpful.....

[yamilee21]

Originally Posted by kateena

... I personally don't think it's only a language you pass on to your children, it's a whole set of values, a sense of humor, etc. ... His English is perfect grammatically, but I just always knew it wasn't his language, it just didn't feel right...

Exactly... things like jokes, proverbs, idioms and colloquial expressions tend not to translate well, if at all. They tend to be used in less formal ("natural") language settings, rather than being taught in school, and often mark the distinction between "native" and "non-native" speakers of a language. I don't have a noticeable accent when I speak English, but I tend to use very few idioms and colloquialisms, and people can often tell that English isn't my first/ only language because of this. Or, as my goddaughter once told me, "You speak English like someone who doesn't *really* speak English."

Another thing to bear in mind is that true bilingualism is relatively rare; many bilingual people are actually what the research calls "composite bilingual" - changing between languages depending on the setting, for example, using one language predominantly at home, and a different one at work or school. With immigrants especially, this can be as extreme as not having certain words in their native vocabularies when their experiences necessitating those words have only occurred in the second language/country, and vice versa. The knowledge of both languages may be equally strong overall, but there will usually some gaps in both, and the gaps will be usually be quite different.

[Marylizah]

Thanks for all the advice!

Where we are right now there are basically no French people. We'll probably move soon, but I don't know that we'll end up in a place with a larger French community... So that may not be an option.

The problem is that since neither DH nor I are truly native French speakers (tho DH's schooling was exclusively French and he started learning it at age 3) neither of us could truly give him that "pure" linguistic experience. But I still think it's really, really important that DS speak and know French. So I'll probably do what I can to speak to him in French and in English, and supplement with music, books and DVDs in French. Hopefully we can at some point get him into a French school situation.

It's a tough situation, but I'm sure it'll work itself out. And kids *are* very resiliant linguistically! Ideally I'm a purist, but practically if I want my child to learn this language I'm going to have to compromise....

[Mama Shifra]

You may want to look into "international schools" that are in several large US cities that are sponsered by the French government for French expatriots. For example, here in Dallas there is the Dallas International School (sponsered by the Mission Laique Francaise, an international organization that sponsers French schools outside of France) that is at least 50% American (and growing up English speaking), but has students from France, Canada and other countries whose parents want their child to learn French fluently enough to go to university in France. I believe that if you are of French citizenship, it may be tuition free. You may want to check out the French Embassy to the United States' web site at www.frenchculture.org.

Shifra

[hakeber]

Slightly off topic, but in thios and the other bi-lingual/multi-lingual thread I kept reading, "We do OPOL" OPOL this and OPOL that, and I was like...OPOL? what's OPOL? That sounds good...maybe it could help us?

Then I googled it...

derr..One Person One Language...I could not feel any dumber.:

That's what we have done, too, with great success. Our babysitter/housekeeper/and pre-school spoke in spanish to Benjamin while his dad and I speak in English even though we do speak Spanish well enough. Of course now that we are in Scotland...just his pre-school and and some friends will be the spanish speakers.

[Arduinna]

The other option is for you both to speak to each other in French and speak to ds in a different language. I know that dh picked up a couple languages that way. His parents were multilingual and so when they wanted to to speak to each other without him understanding they would speak Yiddish. And then he learned it, LOL so they switched to German I think

He learned Spanish from his cousins also so if you can do the play group thing that will work too.

[Marylizah]

Originally Posted by Arduinna

The other option is for you both to speak to each other in French and speak to ds in a different language. I know that dh picked up a couple languages that way. His parents were multilingual and so when they wanted to to speak to each other without him understanding they would speak Yiddish. And then he learned it, LOL so they switched to German I think

He learned Spanish from his cousins also so if you can do the play group thing that will work too.

That was actually our original plan. The family language would be French, then each parent individually speaks to DS in one language. So far it isn't working very well, maybe because we're living with my parents for the moment and it feels kind of rude to speak in a language they don't understand. Plus I worry that it isn't enough exposure. Hopefully when we're on our own we can enforce that better.

We're currently in a border city and most parents that we meet at the park are switching back and forth between English and Spanish with their kids. I thought that was interesting, since that's sort of what I'm doing with DS.

[Needle in the Hay]

Originally Posted by Marylizah

Plus I worry that it isn't enough exposure. Hopefully when we're on our own we can enforce that better.

Just wanted to say try not to worry about it too much. Even if you and your DH only speak French together some of the time that's already more exposure than if you don't speak it at all. And you and DH don't feel like you have to enforce anything.

You can also speak to your DS in French sometimes, you don't have to do OPOL. That way you can still speak in English to him when you want or need to and he's getting a bit of French everyday from you as well.

I would definitely read him books in French and put DVDs on in French. I wouldn't engage in a power struggle over it, though. It should be fun and happy. People can get a little crazy when it comes to languages. They'll do things they'd never do if language wasn't an issue (like ignore their child if they don't speak the "right" language or send the child away for most of the day in the name of immersion).

Really I would just try to give him some exposure to French everyday without stressing out about it at all. When you move you can see what's available as far as playgroups or French community.

[raeinparis]

Originally Posted by Marylizah

That was actually our original plan. The family language would be French, then each parent individually speaks to DS in one language. So far it isn't working very well, maybe because we're living with my parents for the moment and it feels kind of rude to speak in a language they don't understand. Plus I worry that it isn't enough exposure. Hopefully when we're on our own we can enforce that better.

well, we're in france -- both dp and myself are native english speakers -- and ds1 speaks english really well and french not so much. he goes to maternelle in the mornings but hasn't had a load of exposure to french other than every day life! anyway, he's only just starting to assign french words to things (doudou, pomme, gouter). so this has been a roundabout way of saying that just having the parents speak the language is enough. your son may not grow up reading and writing french perfectly (and we won't get into the handwriting!) but he will have the experience of french as a living, spoken language.

it may seem rude for a bit, but i know i'm fairly accustomed to switching between english and french (and my french is horrible) for the benefit of our audience -- for ds and the other kids at the playground, for example.

good luck and i hope your transition goes smoothly!

[webjefita]

Very interesting and helpful discussion! I love having more food for thought. I just wanted to add a recommendation for a great, thorough book called Raising Bilingual Children: Parent's Guide series. It was the best one I read.

One thing I took away from this book, through families' stories, was that changing a language that you use to speak to your child could possibly be difficult emotionally. Depending on age and other factors, children could feel confused, rejected, lost, etc.

I currently speak to my children in a language that is not my native language, and I am deciding to slowly transition to English (native).

I think it also cannot be stressed enough that finding other sources of the language, especially real live people (although tapes and videos could help), will really help them develop fluency beyond passive receptive skills.

[aprilushka]

I think native English speakers living in the US will end up speaking to their kids eventually some in English, to help with homework, etc even if we have another home language. Without any policy.

Exactly what you do at home I think it's a question of situation. If there are plenty of other places to get practice in the other language, then maybe what you do at home is less important. If not, than it's very important because without a lot of practice at home, the chances of a kid speaking more than on a basic level are pretty slim. Also context -- if there are family members who do not speak English, and they are seen frequently, then maintenance is more important and also more real to the child (rather than an abstract concept of speaking another language is good). If we only did what seems "natural" we would do little in this life (is learning algebra natural for most people?) so I don't think of that as the most important consideration, but that's just me.

At any rate, you could do both "English" time and "French" time at home to see how it works out and eventual find the routine that works, and that routine will be natural for your family. Of course, rebellion will come eventually, but all of us trying to raise our kids with another language will face that I think. However, I do tend to lean towards more of the foreign language at home, based on what I've seen in Russian families. If the parents do not really institute a Russian at home policy and do a lot of extra enrichment stuff in Russian (reading, films, etc) plus speaking to relatives, etc., the kids by the time they are 12 or 13, they can't even put a sentence together. They understand quite a bit, but they can't even hold not terribly complicated conversation, much less read or write.