4.5-y-o DS and control of the TV

[lisac77]

Let me preface this by saying 1) I am a large part of the problem here, because I have allowed this to get to this point, and I acknowledge and recognize this and 2) this has been a recent development, localized to the last 2-3 months.

We had a really hard time today because DS threw major tantrums when it was time to turn off the TV. I was very angry with him, because I felt the behavior was unwarranted and unacceptable. I've realized that this possibly extends from a need to have more control in his life, and I'm looking for creative solutions for dealing with this problem WITHOUT completely removing TV from the picture.

DS watches a limited amount of TV per day, but inevitably when it's time to turn the TV off he throws a wall-eyed fit. Kicking, screaming, running away and slamming the door to his room... wall-eyed fit.

After today's incident, I was so tired of it I was ready to cancel the cable. However, DH and I enjoy the cable, that is, when we can get DS to relinquish the TV in a graceful manner. This happens occasionally, but not often. I realized today that I almost NEVER watch the TV because DS has such a monopoly over it and I am usually too tired to deal with the fallout from insisting that we turn it off.

I am considering setting up a chart and allowing him to choose three 20 minute shows per day. For each show watched we can mark off with a sticker (or whatever). After three shows, the TV goes off. The end. Exceptions can be made for the weekends.

Anyone else have success with limiting TV viewing and avoiding tantrums? I am really getting sick of this and we need a new plan!

[zeldamomma]

What I have found in my house is that when my kids have trouble with turning off the tv, typically, they are tired and were watching tv when they really ought to have napped.

Maybe you could take a look at what leads you turn the tv on for ds and see if there's a need tv almost addresses that might better be met another way?

If the fit has become a habit, I might tell him that if throws a fit when we turn off the tv, he is done watching for the day. Of course you need to be willing to enforce that, but it might give him a reason to control his temper (one of my kids needs that, apparently her throwing a fit is not a problem for her). If you want to try that, I would explain the new rule to him before you turn the tv on, and then remind him before you turn the tv off.

I would also consider whether or not he's being given age-appropriate responsibilities and challenges-- my kids will act up terribly if we're treating them like they're younger than they are.

HTH!
ZM

[lexbeach]

I don't know that you need to permanently remove the tv, but I would at least remove it (as an option, not physically) for a week (and ideally for a month). Give your ds a chance to learn how to entertain himself in other ways. I also wouldn't recommend watching tv in front of your ds (i.e. the shows you want to watch), so I'm not sure what you mean about you not getting to watch what you want because ds has a monopoly on the tv. Unless you want to watch the nature channel or something, I would guess that your choices would probably be inappropriate for a 4-year-old. And I know that I, personally, would never want to model tv-watching in front of my kids (in light of the whole "do as I say, not as I do" thing).

We actually don't have any tv reception, but our kids do check out magic school bus videos/dvds from the library, and we own a bunch of the scholastic video collection dvds. I think it's probably easier for them to turn off the tv at the end of a dvd than it would be to turn it off at the end of a show, when another show is starting. So that may be another option for you to think about (only allowing videos/dvds).

Lex

[nancy926]

If it got to this point in our house, we would probably unplug the TV for awhile and try to figure out what's going on. Like a PP said, it is something un-TV related. My younger DD always wants to watch TV when she is feeling sad or frustrated - she sort of uses it the way my older DD used a binky.

I guess I think the X-minutes-a-day or X-shows-a-day strategy will backfire. Your DS will feel like he then "has" to watch TV every day to get in his allotted time. So even if he really doesn't want to, he will watch. I can't say this WILL happen, but I have heard of it happening many times with people who use this approach.

Another approach might just be to let him watch as long as he wants for a week. It's not clear how much he is watching right now, but if you ease off a bit, he might decide it's not as great as it's cracked up to be.

In a few years he will be tall enough to reach the remote, wherever it is, and to navigate the many cable channels. So it might be easier for the long run to help him decide how to regulate himself, rather than imposing rules. ask him what a fair solution might be, especially if he is monopolizing the TV when other people want to watch it.

[onemoremom]

We gave our 4 year old 'dollars' for tv and computer time. He helped make them and each(there are 4) is good for 15 minutes (approximately he doesn't have a great grasp of time yet so there's wiggle room - an 18 min show is only one dollar but a 25 min show costs 2). He uses them to watch kids shows I can get OnDemand (fireman sam, thomas, zooboomafoo)or to play on the computer (he likes Starfall, the paint program, some little flash games, etc..).

This is working for us for now. It put him back in control and seems so far to be helping him think a lot more about what he actually enjoys watching. He is VERY picky about what he'll spend his dollars on! The first day or two he was really excited about being able to spend them and was sad when they were gone, but he is getting much more matter of fact about it. If he asks for a show or something we can just ask if he has any dollars left for it, he will look in the special place he keeps them, and say 'oh I spent them already. can we play (candyland or something) instead?'

Sometimes he spends them just because he is interested in the money process. He likes to give them to me, tell me what he's spending it on, 'Mommy is my bank!', then runs off to play in another room while the show is on.

We've tried unlimited access, it just wasn't a good fit for our family and this kid at this age. This works well for all of us right now. If we all stay happy with it then maybe when he's older we'll do different time increments to make it more like regular money. If it doesn't keep working we'll do something else. I think that probably when he's a bit older having him *entirely* in control of what/when/how much he watches won't bring back the tantrums, whining, fussiness, screaming, lack of cooperation, and lack of actual playing and imagination that we were seeing.

Also, we don't really watch tv ourselves before he goes to bed. I will occasionally put something on and tell him it's mommy's turn with the tv (since we do allow it I feel like that helps model responsible use) but the shows or movies that I like, that are ok to have on with a 4 year old in the room but definitely geared to adults, are outrageously boring to him

Don't know if that helps at all but it's what we're doing for now.

[lightheart]

would covering the tv with a sheet or something work to keep it 'out of sight'

in a way look at it as an addiction, he will have 'withdrawl' but everytime he doesn't watch it will get better.

I like the idea of the chart if he's mature enough to understand that's all you get.

I would limit the weekend exceptions in the beginning, maybe give him a set # of stickers to use, it can be more but don't let him know it's 'up in the air' even if it is.

what about having stickers for the whole family? would that work? so that he knows that others have limits too and it's not just him.

I'd say be prepared to engage him in some non tv activities, have things set up in your head to push him to when he says "TV" whether it's a book or playing with his toys or going outside for a walk with him.

what about time? does he understand clocks? can you say no TV before ___ and no TV after ___ he can still pick his shows but during the time frame you set.

what about a set # of stickers per week? instead of looking at days?

don't know if any of these things would work IRL or not, just throwing out thoughts.......

[Jessy1019]

My daughter knows that she is allowed to watch two of her shows per day (each show is a little less than 1/2 hour). She can decide if she wants to watch first thing in the morning or in the evening before her dad and I put on a movie (she is allowed to watch our movies with us and likes that, so she doesn't ask to watch anything else during that time). Usually, she picks morning and watches her two shows before we're ready to do anything else for the day.

She also knows that when she has thrown fits to watch more than her allotted time, she has lost tv for weeks at a time.

I like the idea of tokens, with each token representing a 1/2 hour show. Let him pick what and when (within reason -- I think it's fair to say that by a certain time of night, the tv is yours), and give him a way to visualize how much time he has. And if he throws fits because he's not getting what he wants, I think it makes absolute sense to remove the tv as an option for a week or so at a time.

[mommy68]

My oldest child was like this around that age. He is very laidback and the type of personality that could sit and watch t.v. for hours if we would have let him. I bought him some software for his computer at the age of 5 and he was in to that as well. He also has always liked going outside and messing around. I'd say, depending on what your child likes to do, just find some things to get his mind off t.v. Start with doing things first thing in the morning that have nothing to do with t.v. Just try to get him used to doing something with his time other than turning on the t.v.

Your child will eventually get used to watching less t.v. over time. He's still very young and it can work if you implement something now. My oldest son is almost 13 and now rarely watches t.v. It's very much the last thing on his list of things to do on any given day of the week. He's much too busy with outdoor activities, reading, studying, playing with his siblings, etc. None of my kids like t.v. that much and only watch it at night before bed.

It's funny because my oldest child knew how to use a remote control by the age of 4 whereas my youngest child is now about to turn 6 years old and she still has no idea how to use a remote and could care less. She rarely watches t.v. I've raised them all 3 this way and they all 3 have very different personalities.

[HollyBearsMom]

We use "screen time" w/ no backfiring and we also have many days were the TV is never turned on at all. TV has not turned into anything that needs to be "taken away" sicne I woudn't say any of us are addicted to it.

Now that my son is 6 1/2 he gets an hour and a half of "screen time" a day. This includes TV, video games and computer. He gets to choose when and how he uses it.

Most days he does watch a show first thing in AM since he is an early riser who is pretty layed back. He has no interest in legos, books, games, etc first thing and since we are getting ready for work there isn't really time for board games etc with us. In warmer months though he usually chooses to bring stuff outside to play or plays on his swing set while we get ready for work.

[lisac77]

Originally Posted by lexbeach

I don't know that you need to permanently remove the tv, but I would at least remove it (as an option, not physically) for a week (and ideally for a month). Give your ds a chance to learn how to entertain himself in other ways.

Actually he has gotten much better at entertaining himself because I set a "no TV until we've done our daily reading" limit. We weren't getting any reading done because DH gets home so late, DS would fall right into bed and be asleep 5 minutes later, so we weren't getting any stories in. He's usually not ready to do daily reading until he's had some down time, so he will often play by himself for 30 minutes to 2 hours before he's ready to read.

I also wouldn't recommend watching tv in front of your ds (i.e. the shows you want to watch), so I'm not sure what you mean about you not getting to watch what you want because ds has a monopoly on the tv. Unless you want to watch the nature channel or something, I would guess that your choices would probably be inappropriate for a 4-year-old. And I know that I, personally, would never want to model tv-watching in front of my kids (in light of the whole "do as I say, not as I do" thing).

... and this is why I don't want to cut TV out of his life all together. I do watch age appropriate shows with him, and additionally I do not have any free time that are not DS's waking hours (I work nights and sleep while he is at school). So yeah, he's going to see me and DH watching TV. I don't think TV is inherently bad, but when it's THAT hard to turn it off, it becomes a problem for everyone.

In terms of the monopoly, say I turn off his show and turn on mine, he will cry, slam doors, moan, and do anything else he can think of to disrupt my watching time. Also whenever I'm watching TV, I'm usually also playing trains or legos with him, so it's not like I am totally ignoring him just to watch TV.

[lisac77]

Originally Posted by mommy68

I'd say, depending on what your child likes to do, just find some things to get his mind off t.v. Start with doing things first thing in the morning that have nothing to do with t.v. Just try to get him used to doing something with his time other than turning on the t.v.

He actually has lots of outside interests... playing with legos, his train set, cars, puzzles, drawing, etc. It's not hard to get him interested in other things and that's why the AMOUNT of TV he's watching is not the problem, it's the relinquishing of TV that's the problem.

Your child will eventually get used to watching less t.v. over time. He's still very young and it can work if you implement something now. My oldest son is almost 13 and now rarely watches t.v. It's very much the last thing on his list of things to do on any given day of the week. He's much too busy with outdoor activities, reading, studying, playing with his siblings, etc. None of my kids like t.v. that much and only watch it at night before bed.

I have no doubt of this. He's in school now so he's got lots of outside stimulation, and I'm sure when he starts Kindergarten he will have more stuff to do after school with the neighborhood kids. Right now it is chilly and boring outside... it will be easier in a few weeks when spring is here.

[LilyGrace]

Could it be a lack of the concept of time that's a problem? We use timers here for the computer and DS. When it dings, there's 5 minutes reset on it to help the child adjust/save/finish a level, and when it dings for the second time - that's it.

Giving the child something to hold onto works, too. Tickets, popsicle sticks..if they want to watch, they have to relinquish one. Rather than counting up, they count down and it's a bit easier for them to keep track. Every morning the tickets or sticks are put back in their home for the child to use during the day.

[lucyem]

We have found that if our DS has watched too much tv he will throw a fit when he has to shut it off. Usually because he is tired or bored or both. He went through a bad stage about your sons age too. But once we set the rules and stuck to them he is usually fine unless he is getting sick or way over tired. The rule is that if you throw a fit you loose tv the next day. We stuck to it and yes it means no tv for us while he is awake. I also make a point of warning him ahead of time "when this show is over shut it off" even if he knows it.

[abi&ben'smom]

We use the timer also. That way if we have to leave/eat/bedtime he can look and see how many minutes he can add onto tomorrow (that was a big, big issue if his time wasn't up yet).