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LDS/Mormon Support Only Thread - Page 30

post #581 of 628
He cannot be denied a temple recommend because of long hair. Period. Just like you can't be denied a temple recommend for drinking coke. Just because your bishop doesn't like it doesn't mean he can use it as a reason for keeping him out of the temple. Have you very politely asked him to show you in the bishops handbook where it says long hair is a reason to keep someone out of the temple?

As for the white shirts - If you are willing to spend some money, the more expensive white dress shirts are not really see through. My dh has a couple someone passed along to him and it's amazing what the difference is between them and our cheapo target/JC penny shirts.
post #582 of 628
Quote:
Originally Posted by ancoda View Post
Right now I am mostly on the hunt for slightly thicker button down white dress shirts so that maybe he can conform without feeling half naked.
Maybe this would make him too warm...but couldn't he just wear a plain white undershirt over his garments? Like the kind Hanes or Fruit of the Loom make?
post #583 of 628
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sebarnes View Post
He cannot be denied a temple recommend because of long hair. Period. Just like you can't be denied a temple recommend for drinking coke. Just because your bishop doesn't like it doesn't mean he can use it as a reason for keeping him out of the temple. Have you very politely asked him to show you in the bishops handbook where it says long hair is a reason to keep someone out of the temple?

.
Agreed. Temple recommend questions are not arbitrary. If it becomes a problem I'd bring it up with the Stake President.
post #584 of 628
Quote:
Originally Posted by ORLY? View Post
I know we have discussed miscarriages before,
but do we know (as in it has been revealed by a prophet or GA) what happens to the spirits of aborted babies?
I'm not really interested in personal revelation here, please.
If someone has posted this before, could someone do the leg-work for me and post the page link.
If you don't feel comfortable posting here, please PM me.
Thank you!
I am not aware that there is any official doctrine on when the spirit enters the body. I know a lot of miscarrying mamas have expressed that they did/didn't have a feeling about that baby having had the spirit present (ie, they'd see the baby in the millenium or it would come later or whatever). There is an oft-quoted line from Brigham Young about you can know that the spirit has entered the body when you feel the baby kicking, but if you've ever had an ultrasound you'll know taht the babies are kicking and moving long before they can be felt, plus some people feel babies much earlier than others, so I find that a very vague designation. My own feelings are that the spirits visit the body prior to birth, but probably aren't in it full time until nearer the end of the pregnancy...then again, what do I know.
Personally, I would think aborted babies would be the same as miscarried ones...the pregnancy ended before the baby was able to live outside the mother. My own feeling is that those babies haven't gotten their body yet, and will have to give it another go so to speak...

I don't know if that's any help or not. But there's my two cents anyway.
post #585 of 628
Quote:
Originally Posted by ancoda View Post
Right now I am mostly on the hunt for slightly thicker button down white dress shirts so that maybe he can conform without feeling half naked.
There's a kind of fabric that there are white dress shirts made out of called "oxford cloth."

http://www.llbean.com/webapp/wcs/sto...rom=SR&feat=sr

Here is an example, if it works. This kind is a fair bit more opaque. He might prefer that. Not sure exactly where to purchase, but places like LLBean, JCPenney, Sears, etc. would probably have it. My son's dress shirts are made out of this. You can find all cotton or cotton/poly blends.
post #586 of 628
Another option for the white shirt dillemma is wearing a suit coat, sport coat, sweater or vest over the shirt.

As far as the long hair is concerned, I'm think your bishop is interjecting personal opinion here, and he shouldn't be able to deny a temple recommend merely based on a non-extreme hairstyle. If he does that, you should make an apointment with the stake president (or someone in the presidency).
post #587 of 628
Quote:
Originally Posted by missmich View Post
Are there any Mormons from the Calgary ward? I'm kinda looking for people who go to that church or did at one time. I'm no longer Mormon,but am trying to get in touch with someone.
Not from Calgary, and our numbers on MDC are fairly small. If you don't hear from anyone in the Calgary ward, you might have more luck asking at a more mainstream LDS board. Good luck!
post #588 of 628
Quote:
Originally Posted by brightonwoman View Post
I am not aware that there is any official doctrine on when the spirit enters the body. I know a lot of miscarrying mamas have expressed that they did/didn't have a feeling about that baby having had the spirit present (ie, they'd see the baby in the millenium or it would come later or whatever). There is an oft-quoted line from Brigham Young about you can know that the spirit has entered the body when you feel the baby kicking, but if you've ever had an ultrasound you'll know taht the babies are kicking and moving long before they can be felt, plus some people feel babies much earlier than others, so I find that a very vague designation. My own feelings are that the spirits visit the body prior to birth, but probably aren't in it full time until nearer the end of the pregnancy...then again, what do I know.
Personally, I would think aborted babies would be the same as miscarried ones...the pregnancy ended before the baby was able to live outside the mother. My own feeling is that those babies haven't gotten their body yet, and will have to give it another go so to speak...

I don't know if that's any help or not. But there's my two cents anyway.
I think that you are correct that there is no official doctrine on the subject. I have also felt that in utero the spirit comes and goes from the body, especially based on the fact that Christ came to Nephi the day before he was born and told him "Tomorrow come I into the world." Obviously, his spirit was not fully attached to the body yet. I think that that moment happens sometime during birth. But, again, just my personal opinion.
post #589 of 628
Quote:
Originally Posted by sebarnes View Post
[...]especially based on the fact that Christ came to Nephi the day before he was born and told him "Tomorrow come I into the world." Obviously, his spirit was not fully attached to the body yet.
Though, just to play Devil's Advocate (which is an odd term considering the topic) that is Christ, and He didn't necessarily play by the same Pre-Mortal Rules that we did.

Also, I had a professor of The Book of Mormon up at Ricks College who taught that it was an angel acting in the name of Christ who announces to Nephi "Tomorrow come I into the world," and that makes sense too (though just complicates the question) since there are numerous instances of heavenly mouthpieces in the scriptures.



Sorry, not trying to muddy the waters, just running my mouth to hear myself speak.
post #590 of 628
There is an article in this month's Ensign about abortion -- maybe that's what prompted the question, but I'll post the link anyway: link I have only skimmed it, but there doesn't seem to me to be anything about the spirit in there.

Quote:
When the controversies about abortion are debated, “individual right of choice” is invoked as though it were the one supreme virtue. That could only be true if but one person were involved. The rights of any one individual do not allow the rights of another individual to be abused. In or out of marriage, abortion is not solely an individual matter. Terminating the life of a developing baby involves two individuals with separate bodies, brains, and hearts. A woman’s choice for her own body does not include the right to deprive her baby of life—and a lifetime of choices that her child would make.
I am jumping to the conclusion, based on this kind of talk about abortion, that the spirit that would have been with the body of the baby who is aborted does not come to the earth, if a "lifetime of choices" are being taken away. But that's still just conjecture on my part.

Frustratingly, there is a talk by Neal A. Maxwell that is coming up in my search, where he quotes someone else posing this question, but doesn't answer it:

Quote:
Listen to these sounds of pain put in the form of questions to me by a young woman who had two abortions:

“I wonder about the spirits of those I have aborted—if they were there, if they were hurt. I was under three months each time, but a mother feels life before she feels movement.

“I wonder if they are lost and alone?

“I wonder if they will ever have a body?

“I wonder if I will ever have a chance again to bring those spirits back as mine?”

Alas, brothers and sisters, “wickedness never was happiness” (Alma 41:10).
post #591 of 628
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bekka View Post
There's a kind of fabric that there are white dress shirts made out of called "oxford cloth."

http://www.llbean.com/webapp/wcs/sto...rom=SR&feat=sr

Here is an example, if it works. This kind is a fair bit more opaque. He might prefer that. Not sure exactly where to purchase, but places like LLBean, JCPenney, Sears, etc. would probably have it. My son's dress shirts are made out of this. You can find all cotton or cotton/poly blends.
Thank you. He may accually be ok with this kind.
post #592 of 628
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brisen View Post

Frustratingly, there is a talk by Neal A. Maxwell that is coming up in my search, where he quotes someone else posing this question, but doesn't answer it
He doesn't answer it because he doesn't know. It's never been revealed.

One of my favorite places to go for tough LDS questions is Ask Gramps. He has some interesting quotes about this topic.

http://www.askgramps.org/does-mormon...-receives-its/

I assume, if the spirit has claim on a fetal body, that it goes straight to Heaven the same way as any child who dies before the age of accountability. That does bring some comfort, though it is not an excuse to become complacent about it. Still...
post #593 of 628
A friend of almost four years removed me from her live journal today because of my religious beliefs. She claimed we didn't "have anything in common anymore" which is a load of BS. We have/had tons in common. And what's more is that I converted two years ago. She had plenty of time to do this and didn't do it until I was sick, a day before my period (which she knew makes me fragile and overly emotional). We met several times in person, I thought we were really friends.

The biggest irony to me is how many supposedly open minded people are willing to remove people from their life if they are not as "open minded."

She claimed my religion takes up much of my life, but I checked my journal, and I made ONE post about religious stuff in the last two weeks. ONE. I mean, jeez! Most of my stuff is about voting for Obama (and she's an Obama supporter, too) and potty training.

I know that anyone who removes me because of my faith is not a true friend, but that doesn't make it hurt any less.
post #594 of 628
I'm sorry you're getting such treatment from people. And you're right, she had plenty of time to voice her opinion about your religion. This part is particularly telling:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Talula Fairie View Post
She claimed my religion takes up much of my life, but I checked my journal, and I made ONE post about religious stuff in the last two weeks. ONE. I mean, jeez! Most of my stuff is about voting for Obama (and she's an Obama supporter, too) and potty training.
If it doesn't take up much of your life, why do it? If your religion doesn't influence how you think and what you do, then what's the point? Maybe people have different definitions of religion, where some might say it's the set of traditions they were raised with, but others say it's their way of life. I'm more of the belief that it ought to be a way of life. I'm far from perfect in living that way, but that's my opinion on the subject. I'd take it as a compliment if someone told me my religion took up too much of my life.
post #595 of 628
I guess that's one way to look at it. It just sucks to lose a friend over that, you know?

I think it should be a way of life too. But that doesn't mean my every single blog post has to be religious in nature.
post #596 of 628
No, I agree, you don't have to talk about nothing but. But as you said, she seemed abnormally sensitive to it, based on your one post. One post shouldn't be enough to conclude you're a religious fanatic.
post #597 of 628
apparently there were other reasons as well, but they weren't much better.

*sigh*

another one bites the dust.
post #598 of 628
Quote:
Originally Posted by NewCrunchyDaddy View Post
Though, just to play Devil's Advocate (which is an odd term considering the topic) that is Christ, and He didn't necessarily play by the same Pre-Mortal Rules that we did.

Also, I had a professor of The Book of Mormon up at Ricks College who taught that it was an angel acting in the name of Christ who announces to Nephi "Tomorrow come I into the world," and that makes sense too (though just complicates the question) since there are numerous instances of heavenly mouthpieces in the scriptures.





Sorry, not trying to muddy the waters, just running my mouth to hear myself speak.
*sticks fingers in ears* La La La La I can't hear you...Don't worry, my water's still clear Since it's never been revealed that he didn't play by the same premortal rules, I'll stick with my theory. It I didn't have all of my pet theories, what fun would my life be?

Besides, we all enjoy hearing you speak!
post #599 of 628
Thanks everyone for your thoughts.
I, too, have my own thoughts regarding the subject, but I just wondered if there was an offical stance or doctrine on the matter.

On a different note:
Did anyone listen to/read/watch Elder Holland's CES fireside on the lessons from Liberty Jail? It was pretty good, I recommend it.
post #600 of 628
I FINALLY have my computer back! YAY! : :

We decided to keep the internet. We got rid of the unlimited long distance phone and switched to a calling card--which is kinda a pain but I think it will save us $20-30/mo, so that'll help. Part of me is still tempted to get rid of the TV but it's not happening right now anyway. Maybe in a few months. Meanwhile I'm working on getting myself a job online (looking at chacha or online tutoring or cafepress) so hey, better days ahead, right?
Just needed to share the
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