My Chickpeas are Hard & Smell Like Vomit

[Metasequoia]

And I'm in a crappy mood just cause.

I'm ticked off that I lamely followed SF's directions when I *know* that her advice to add whey/lemon/whathaveyou to legumes is not good advice & results in hard beans. Since I can't have dairy or lemon, I added a splash of ACV to the soaking liquid, *yesterday morning* & kept them warm in my slow cooker & not only are they still hard as rocks, they smell like vomit. I noticed this with my red lentils yesterday too, maybe it's just my keen sense of smell?

So, what should I do? I'm not going to ditch 3 cups of chickpeas. How do I make them soften so I can peel them & eventually eat them?

[tabitha]

hmmm. i have always used a little lemon juice when soaking my chickpeas, and never had this issue. how long did you soak them? i soak them for at least 48 hrs and sometimes 72. (changing water)

if i had this problem i would probably just keep cooking them until they were soft.

p.s. why would you peel them, out of curiosity?

[quietserena]

You might be able to rinse rinse rinse them really really really well and then cook for a long time (like..16hrs in the slow cooker, adding water as needed).

I had this happen to me recently. Was very disappointed.

[guestmama9904]

i just finished a delicious batch of raw, soaked and sprouted chickpea hummous. i simply soaked the chickpeas for 24 hours in water (no whey or anything), then set them in a collander and drained them, then rinsed them every 6 hours or so until they sprouted tails about 3-4 days later. then i pureed them with olive oil, lemon juice, orange juice, slat and raw garlic and it was soooo good.

[Metasequoia]

Originally Posted by arismama!

i just finished a delicious batch of raw, soaked and sprouted chickpea hummous. i simply soaked the chickpeas for 24 hours in water (no whey or anything), then set them in a collander and drained them, then rinsed them every 6 hours or so until they sprouted tails about 3-4 days later. then i pureed them with olive oil, lemon juice, orange juice, slat and raw garlic and it was soooo good.

Well that sounds easy!

OT: do you think hummus would be gross without lemon juice? I'm reacting to citrus but I lurve me some hummus.

I'll try cooking them for a couple of days. I really though keeping them warm in the slow cooker would make for perfect chick peas. :

[quietserena]

You can do it without lemon juice. I usually add yogurt actually.. Chick peas, tahini, yogurt, garlic, salt, plenty of salt. Paprika on top.

I'm not so sure about raw hummus. I tried it and the texture was not right. I might have to try it again.

[LeilaLuv]

Oh yeah, yogurt gives it that tangy flavor lemon juice gives it. I always put yogurt in mine along with garlic and tahini, then some oliveoil ontop :

I also have avery hard time with chickpeas. the last time i made them they were HARD.

[Pookietooth]

I've had hard chickpeas, and I think it was because they were old. But also, I find they do tend to start to smell horrible if I let them soak in the same water over about 12 hours or so -- I always rinse them and add new water and soak them again for another 12 hours or so. Or longer. I also have found that my chickpeas don't always spout evenly -- some will have long tails while others will just be getting started. Maybe I need to use a colandar to drain them instead of a sprouting jar?

[provocativa]

I had the vomit smell when I soaked and drained them for a few days, as per SF's crappy advice. I did use a collander. I don't recall what, if anything, I added to them. This happened both times with multiple day soaks, and not with other beans (as of yet).

[kmamma]

yeah, if they won't soften they're old. make sure you get your legumes at a place with high turnover. legumes are supposed to be consumed within a year.

[Ruthla]

Why are you adding an acid to the soaking water? You can add an acid after they're fully cooked, but adding it too early keeps them from getting soft.

Now, what do you mean by "warm" in the slow cooker. Do you have it on the "low" setting or the "keep warm" setting? If it's truly on the "warm" setting, it may not be hot enough to cook the chickpeas. They need to be soaked and THEN cooked, not just soaked.

I'd try rinsing them really well, then put them in the crock pot on low (or maybe even high!) with fresh water and nothing else added to the water.

[AJP]

Have you read this article? http://www.westonaprice.org/foodfeat...g-legumes.html It's from the winter 2006 Wise Traditions, and is a modification of the blanket "soak legumes in acidulated water" advice (which has produced some inedible results for me, too - yuck). It's written by Katherine Czapp, not SF. It examines the phytate reduction and digestibility of oligosaccharides (gas producers) of various types of legumes in relation to the temperature and pH of the soaking medium (see chart at bottom of page). It doesn't specify for garbanzos/chickpeas, but says brown, white and kidney beans, as well as dried and split peas, should be soaked in a neutral to slightly alkaline solution, such as plain soft water or with a pinch of baking soda added, rather than acidic. I'd guess chickpeas fit into one of those categories, rather than into the acidic categories of black beans, lentils and fava beans.

[Metasequoia]

Originally Posted by Ruthla

Why are you adding an acid to the soaking water? You can add an acid after they're fully cooked, but adding it too early keeps them from getting soft.

Because that's what SF said to do & I forgot that her legume advice (among other pieces of advice) is TOTALLY BAD ADVICE! (Not yelling at you, yelling at SF.)

Originally Posted by Ruthla

Now, what do you mean by "warm" in the slow cooker. Do you have it on the "low" setting or the "keep warm" setting? If it's truly on the "warm" setting, it may not be hot enough to cook the chickpeas. They need to be soaked and THEN cooked, not just soaked.

My slow cooker has "warm", "low" & "high" settings. I have it at "warm" because it stays around 140 degrees which is the temp that Amanda (Gale Force) found reduced phytic acid most efficiently.

[Metasequoia]

Originally Posted by AJP

Have you read this article? http://www.westonaprice.org/foodfeat...g-legumes.html

How did I miss this article?? TY for posting it!

The preparation of cholent, a traditional Sabbath dish of Ashkenazi Jews, involved a very slow cooking--often for as long as 24 hours--of a stew containing beans, vegetables and meat that was meant to provide warm and quite substantial nourishment on a day when lighting fires for cooking was proscribed. In the shtetls of Eastern Europe, the family's cholent cooked gently in the community baker's cooling wood-fired oven after the bread had been baked. Modern-day cholent is most often prepared using a slow-cooker, and this device can also be one of the best ways to prepare beans in general. It is important to avoid boiling beans since this will coagulate their vegetable protein and result in permanently hard, unpalatable beans.

Woo-hoo!

Another trick to cooking beans and minimizing those troublesome oligosaccharides is to add a 4-to-6-inch strip of the sea vegetable kombu (Laminaria of various species, a member of the kelp family) to the bean pot during the warmed soak period. Kombu helps alkalinize the water, and also contains alpha-galactosidase, the enzyme needed for digesting these complex sugars, and therefore enhances that process in the pot. I like to add even more kombu during the slow cooking period, as it lends a delicious, meaty flavor to the beans (not at all fishy) and is mineral-rich, with additional B vitamins and trace elements, as well as a digestion-soothing gel that literally melts into the bean sauce.

A friend of mine suggested kombu, I'll have to try it.

Tests have shown that the optimal functioning temperature for phytase activity in all legumes measured is 113° F (British Journal of Nutrition (2002), 88, Suppl. 3, S281-S285).

Quite a bit lower than 140. Huh.

[cristeen]

Any acid with your legumes is a bad idea. Lemon juice, vinegar, tomato products, it doesn't matter. Acid will prevent the legume from ever softening. If a recipe calls for acid, it needs to be added after the legume is fully cooked.

[AJP]

I've been adding a little bit of acid (usually vinegar) to soaking water for black beans and lentils, and they soften when cooking afterwards. I had some horrible flops in the past when more exactly following NT directions, though, and whey always seems to give them that vomitous smell so I stick with vinegar now. I don't know if the amount of acid I add gets the water pH down to the level suggested in that article (I suppose I could test it if I wanted to really be a geek), I just add a splash to 2 cups of dry beans soaking in 2 quarts of water, and change to plain water for cooking. Sometimes I add kombu, sometimes I don't.

I soak garbanzos in plain water (our tap water is soft), drain and add fresh water and a pinch of salt at cooking time (salt does not toughen them even if you add it at the beginning, contrary to a common kitchen myth - I add a little to most legumes while cooking), which seems to help the garbanzos cook up fluffier than when no salt is added. And then I don't sweat it - if phytates remain, so be it. Beans are rarely more than a small portion of our meals, a couple of times a week.

(BTW, this morning I added hummus to scrambled eggs, mixed it in while beating the eggs so it wasn't in lumps, and it was so good! 6 eggs with about 3 tablespoons of hummus.)

[Ruthla]

Originally Posted by Metasequoia

Because that's what SF said to do & I forgot that her legume advice (among other pieces of advice) is TOTALLY BAD ADVICE! (Not yelling at you, yelling at SF.)



My slow cooker has "warm", "low" & "high" settings. I have it at "warm" because it stays around 140 degrees which is the temp that Amanda (Gale Force) found reduced phytic acid most efficiently.

But there's a difference between "soaking to reduce phytates" and "cooking". I don't think 140 degrees is hot enough to actually COOK the beans- which means they won't soften.

I would guess there's very little, if any, phytase left in those chick peas now. Give them fresh water and a good rinse (and rinse out the crock pot) then try them on "low" instead of "warm."

[Metasequoia]

Originally Posted by Ruthla

But there's a difference between "soaking to reduce phytates" and "cooking". I don't think 140 degrees is hot enough to actually COOK the beans- which means they won't soften.

I would guess there's very little, if any, phytase left in those chick peas now. Give them fresh water and a good rinse (and rinse out the crock pot) then try them on "low" instead of "warm."

The 140 temp was for soaking. I hadn't even begun to cook them yet. I already ditched them because they were kinda old & the vomit smell was going to make me vomit. I went to the store & bought new ones today & will soak in plain water.

AJP, that article a few posts back recommended soaking *some* legumes with an acid but not all. There's a conference here, this weekend, that SF is talking at - I should go & ask why her soaking directions suck.

[AJP]

Originally Posted by Metasequoia

AJP, that article a few posts back recommended soaking *some* legumes with an acid but not all.

I know, that's why I stopped trying to put acid in some of them, but continue to use a little vinegar with black beans and lentils (which seems to still allow them to soften, with the amount I add). And I never use whey anymore, too many instances of that vomit smell you encountered, which is disgusting.

[Metasequoia]

Originally Posted by AJP

I know, that's why I stopped trying to put acid in some of them, but continue to use a little vinegar with black beans and lentils (which seems to still allow them to soften, with the amount I add). And I never use whey anymore, too many instances of that vomit smell you encountered, which is disgusting.

That's weird because I used ACV too. I think I'll just have to write them off as old - and I will change the soaking water a few times next time.