help! please any advice? worried dd will get eating disorders because we have such a restricted... - Page 6

[bluebell]

zoebird thanks for posting. i feel i've learned so much from this thread. when i originally posted i didn't have all the information as to what was going on. i was paniking and hearing all dp's families voices in my head about how she was being denied certain foods and that she would get an eating disorder (the ones saying this still have active food/addiction issues themselves) . now i've managed to figure out what was going on and i'm not paniking anymore - except of course feeling furious at dp .
i just looked at how i titled this thread and if i was posting about this issue now i'd definitly word it differently.
yes i was also thinking that food isn't 'restricted' just certain foods can't be eaten. of the foods she can eat she can eat as much of and whenever she wants, we don't have any 'rules' about when food should be eaten or how much of the food and she always gets to choose what she wants for her meals and snacks. the other day we made some almond flour cookies and she said she wanted them for her dinner, so she did and she ate as many as she wanted and left the rest.
i will definitly have to be more creative and find some more recipes though because we had been so busy the food had become very simple, plain and quick to cook, pretty boring really.

interesting reading about the boys you worked with.

kjbrown92 thanks also for posting your experience. it really helps to know how others deal with this issue.

[moonlight mom]

Bluebell,
Can you post the recipe for the almond flour cookies? They sound really good and I am wondering if my gluten free son would like them.
BTW - can you update us on you dd's behavior. Any improvement?

[zoebird]

i'm glad that you're feeling better.

[bluebell]

Originally Posted by moonlight mom

Bluebell,
Can you post the recipe for the almond flour cookies? They sound really good and I am wondering if my gluten free son would like them.
BTW - can you update us on you dd's behavior. Any improvement?

no problem, i'll have to post the recipe tomorrow because i'm away without my recipe book, but the basic ingrediants are almond flour (finely ground almonds) butter or CO whatever you prefer or can have, eggs and honey and then whatever flavour you want to make - we used coconut, but you can use other nuts, cinnamon, applesauce etc. i will post the full recipe when i have it in front of me this is all off the top of my head and i'm not quite sure of exact quantities.

dd has had a cold over the last few days and has been very irritable with it so will have to wait until that cleared up to see any real difference. but she hasn't had any problem foods since last week and we've been talking about it lots so will have to see what happens. she had a different stools and went longer between them again though. suffice to say i've not taken her to a supermarket or other such shop or the cinema since the incidents last week! - i think i'll be avoiding taking her somewhere like that for a little while longer.

thanks again for all the help.

[LisainCalifornia]

Originally Posted by LionTigerBear

I'm sure you didn't mean it that way, but just to let you know, this part does come off as offensive.

My son is on a similar diet to the OPs, and like the OP, I am not nor have I ever been obese.

This has nothing to do with having body image issues and thus wanting one's children to look "slim" and "pretty"-- don't know if that's what you are reffering to but it sure seems like it, which is the offending part.

I am so sorry I offended you or the OP When I was writing I got the OP's responses confused with another poster here who said she was very overweight (or had struggled with her weight most of her life), and thought that was the OP talking. It is a very long thread and hard to get through it!

I know no one here is trying to make their child just be slim or pretty. The OP asked out of true concern for her child. I was just giving my perspective that sometimes neuro issues do happen independently from diet--even though I know there can be a connection. I have a child who does struggle with neurological issues, and for her it is not really a diet issue--it is something else. We have a long line of mental illness on my side (my mother, her sister, cousins, etc...) and that part seems to be hereditary. Of course a healthy diet is so important, no matter your mental health.

It sounds like the OP has resolved some issues, and for that I am glad. Please take care.
Lisa

[LionTigerBear]

Originally Posted by LisainCalifornia

I am so sorry I offended you or the OP When I was writing I got the OP's responses confused with another poster here who said she was very overweight (or had struggled with her weight most of her life), and thought that was the OP talking. It is a very long thread and hard to get through it!

I know no one here is trying to make their child just be slim or pretty. The OP asked out of true concern for her child. I was just giving my perspective that sometimes neuro issues do happen independently from diet--even though I know there can be a connection. I have a child who does struggle with neurological issues, and for her it is not really a diet issue--it is something else. We have a long line of mental illness on my side (my mother, her sister, cousins, etc...) and that part seems to be hereditary. Of course a healthy diet is so important, no matter your mental health.

It sounds like the OP has resolved some issues, and for that I am glad. Please take care.
Lisa

That's okay, I get where you are coming from now. Thanks for explaining!

[Etoile]

I was the one who wrote my story about how I feel the very restrictive (macrobiotic) diet as a child effected me and that I have been very overweight as an adult (hopefully not for much longer!).

I certainly did not mean, or believe, that bluebell's restrictions on her daughter have anything to do with weight or body image.

I was just trying to illustrate how restricting a child to such an extent may lead to a distorted relationship with food. For me, personally, it is not as much that I felt deprived by the diet (at least at that age--3, 4, 5) but that I felt socially isolated and different. I still believe that having a little flexibility and learning moderation in social situations (where a parent will only for a short time have real control over a child) can help develop a child's self-control when they are later independent in those situations at an older age.

I truly hope the best for you and your daughter, bluebell, and I very much believe that you have her best interest at heart.

BTW, I do agree with you in part--DP's teaching your daughter to be secretive about food is awful. I hope that dynamic improves.

[westcoastmom]

I have a very, very, very strong willed, very, very strong minded, smart, manipulative 4 yr old daughter. We follow a grain and sugar free diet. I found food to be one of the easier battles with her (and oh do we have many battles) We educated her about the things she can eat, and taught her to ask us. If she goes to play next door, she comes back to ask for a snack.

We have been honest and tell them why we eat the way we do and that it her with her behaviour, eczema etc.

I do make occasional treats with almond flour, nut butter, coconut flour. They get a lot of fat which makes a big difference. I will give them butter off the spoon, make smoothies with eggs, coconut oil, butter.

[zoebird]

fat is so important.

i keep thinking about that scene in disney's Alice in Wonderland, in which the mad hatter and the march hare set loose that weird mouse. he goes haywire, and they put something on his nose.

it might be jelly, but i think it's butter. the butter is what settles him.

and i think, that makes perfect sense.

heck, when my husband doesn't get enough fat in his day, he gets anxious!

[gilamama]

For my 4 1/2 yr old dd it is really important to eat treats from a package sometimes. We buy:

fruit leather
stretchislandfruit.com


plantain chips
ecofrut.com

and macaroons


jennies-macaroons.com


i have never visited these websites just copied them from the pacaging.

good luck

[karliyanchus]

For my 4 1/2 yr old dd it is really important to eat treats from a package sometimes. We buy:

fruit leather
stretchislandfruit.com

that's an interesting point of view i hadn't considered. we try to eat healthy foods, i try to make healthy foods for my kids, and for the most part we do ok. it was easier when they were toddlers, to give big selection on a smaller budget, ie 3 or 4 different veggies in a meal, etc.

now that you mention it, i can see how presentation might matter to a 4/5 yr old, my son is almost 5 and he likes things "just so" sometimes. i can see why kids are drawn to the packaging on junk foods. shiny, cartoons, very seductive, lol. maybe there's ways to present healthy alternatives? in pretty little tins or something? wax paper tied with a ribbon?

not too many parents have the time or inclination to make smiley face sandwiches every day, ha ha, but every once in a blue moon i'll cut red pepper with heart shaped cookie cutters and it's something the kids get a kick out of.

we aren't following any kind of strict diet here, we include pretty much everything, from time to time. that being said, we kinda break things up into categories, and treat foods arent' always junk foods. a real treat could be a little basket of rasperries out of season, or some cashews, or something decadent yet not junky. i try and include them in the planning, and the cooking and that helps them be on board with the food that is sitting in front of them on the plate. i also get them to smell stuff when i'm cooking, ie spices, dill, garlic, lemon, etc. i am trying to get them excited about foods, even treat foods, without it being junky stuff. still though, ask them what their fav meal is and they'd say hot dogs, argh.

but my 4 yr old is so proud when he's the one who stirred the chili as it was cooking, or when he makes a little loaf of bread from my big dough blob. he helped construct the layers of a lasagne the other day, it was fun.

i agree with giving more control in those planning/preparing areas and less in the areas of allowing them to pick things off someone else's plate. no chance would that ever be acceptable here. if i said no, and then he grabbed it anyway, quick as a flash i'd grab the darn thing back, whether or not it was healthy or junk food! smae for running away in stores. it would mean a miserable trip or two, forcing a child to constantly be by my side, probably holding onto the cart or my hand, but i would insist until i could trust him not to run again. (just picturing it in my situation....)

but then maybe it would be helpful to enlist her help, with a list of her own, that she helped make, with pictures OR words, and make the shopping into something fun together, ie she picks the apples, puts them in a bag, etc. my kids are always excited to get twist ties for the bags, i have no idea why. lol

[dawncayden]

I've only read 2 pages so far so I appoligize if this has been said,

Have you tried baking goodies that she can eat with her helping? I know that when you involve a child in making food they are more likely to eat it.

I would get family and friends on the same page and try to only hang out with other kids that eat no sugar.

Dh was telling me yesterday that our bodies NEED a certain amount of sugar and salt, which is why the Atkins diet is not very healthy (among other things) Is she able to get natural sugars through fruit still?


Ds has some major allergies (soy, dairy and wheat) so I understand seeing your child feeling left out from what others are eating.

[Pookietooth]

Does she have sensory integration issues? My ds has the same texture issues as well. We did the SCD for one year and it really seemed to help at the time. Do you let her have honey, or is that not allowed on your diet?

[NatrlCatholicMama]

I'm really blown away at the compassionate, brilliant advice offered here (esp. about acceptable treats). I'm taking lots of notes as my 6yo ds literally stomps around the house (for 30 min) b/c I said he could only have half the leftover oatmeal from breakfast (today he's had soaked oatmeal, corn tortilla, ww pretzels, piece of ww sourdough, and a banana ... can you say carb addiction?). He is *not* normally like this, but I let him have too many grains today (even whole, correctly prepared grains), and he's no longer able to control his emotions.

Some things that I feel should be pointed out:

-Refined grains and sugars are not healthy for anyone. No one needs them in any amount, not even in "moderation." They are modern foods and many people's bodies can't cope with them, causing problems in subtle (irritability) to deadly (celiac disease, suicidal depression) ways. Taking these out of the diet is not "restrictive." It is normal; it is what our bodies expect. In a world where everyone is jumping off the bridge, holding my child back from the edge is not "restrictive" or "coercive."

-Despite the complete abnormality of eating grains and sugar cane or beet stripped of all its nutrients, some people can eat them in moderation, w/o becoming addicted. My husband is like this, as is my dd. OTOH, many others cannot make rational decisions about sweet or refined foods. We feel like we *must* have them once we've had a little. I and 2 of my sons are like this. I tried for years to taper off my sugar consumption or have just a little occasionally. I can't do it. I must have more. Even just typing this, I'm suddenly feeling awful inside having a massive desire to drive to TJ's and get a whole cheesecake to eat w/ some organic vanilla bean ice cream. BTW, I've never been overweight, I have no (other) emotional or neurological or physical disorders, and no one who knows me (other than dh) would guess that I feel this way.

For her, a biscuit IS like heroin, b/c one bite makes her want the whole thing, and halfway through all she can think of is how to get two more, meanwhile getting jittery & irritable. Then suddenly all she wants is sweets, which lead to dizziness, and perhaps far worse symptoms. If she's like me & millions of others.

FTR, I grew up with a "moderate" intake of junk food. That means lots of processed things with no sugar (mac & cheese, Cheerios, ...), sweet things several times a week, etc. No real restrictions; we were pretty much like everyone else. Nonetheless, I have snuck food my entire life. B/c I can't say no. (unless I up the natural fats, greatly reduce the grains, and say no to refined/artificial sweeteners & grains altogether)

(the stealing and running away sounds like typical behavior for many 4yos. I wouldn't be worried about it. Amazing you narrowed down the cause to the dp's permission. He sounds very contrite - the best thing he can do is to apologize to her and make a point of behaving the opposite from that one time from now on.)

I think that your homeschooling and hanging out with like-minded families will benefit you greatly. It is often peer pressure that causes rebellion in cases like these, b/c they feel so different. If it was 1808 instead of 2008, she wouldn't feel different, weird, or deprived at all.

It helps to remember that she is 4. Restricting a 4yo's diet (who is too young to think fully abstractly & rationally) is not at all the same as restricting a 14yo's. I feel confident that this mama will calmly and lovingly explain their diets as the child grows and help her notice how she feels when she eats certain foods so that this child can make appropriate decisions for herself as she matures. A home full of love (not scorn) will go far to avoid resentment.

[NatrlCatholicMama]

One poster grew up with a free-for-all and binged on carbs as an adult, leading to countless problems. Another grew up with strict restrictions and binged on carbs as an adult, leading to countless problems. They actually both have something in common - the propensity to carb addiction - which those who do not have it can't understand unless they learn of it from someone else. The upbringing seems to be less important than the factors that may be missing in both, and that, IME, are crucial to teaching any child anything - education, example, and unconditional love.

zoebird - beautiful posts

[barose]

Originally Posted by NaturalCatholicMam

\Some things that I feel should be pointed out:

-Refined grains and sugars are not healthy for anyone. No one needs them in any amount, not even in "moderation." They are modern foods and many people's bodies can't cope with them, causing problems in subtle (irritability) to deadly (celiac disease, suicidal depression) ways. Taking these out of the diet is not "restrictive." It is normal; it is what our bodies expect. In a world where everyone is jumping off the bridge, holding my child back from the edge is not "restrictive" or "coercive."

-Despite the complete abnormality of eating grains and sugar cane or beet stripped of all its nutrients, some people can eat them in moderation, w/o becoming addicted. My husband is like this, as is my dd. OTOH, many others cannot make rational decisions about sweet or refined foods. We feel like we *must* have them once we've had a little. I and 2 of my sons are like this. I tried for years to taper off my sugar consumption or have just a little occasionally. I can't do it.

I'm so glad you mentioned this. Some people wonder why I'm so restrictive with my diet (no sugars, grains, etc) other than just leaving out eating gluten and dairy. I figure no matter what I tell them, they will never understand what we go through regarding our mental, emotional and physical health unless they go through it themselves. Actually, many of them do but don’t make the diet connection or flat out refuse to.

[Metasequoia]

Originally Posted by zoebird

i think another aspect worth looking at is whether or not this diet is truly "restrictive."

the truth is that there are restrictions on the diet--there are restrictions in most family's diets in some form or another. but, that doesn't mean that the diet is necessarily restrictive to the point of being harming.

i would assert that a diet that is too restrictive is one that not only includes too few foods (lack of diversity) and too few calories to provide for the individual as well as housed in a great deal of shaming language around food.

but, a diet that is diverse but excludes certain foods such as vegetarianism isn't necessarily "restrictive" if it is diverse and has enough calories for the child.

children's diets do not require wheat, sugar, flour, coffee, etc. our health does not require these things--our mental or physical health.

it is perfectly appropriate to 'restrict' these things from the diet, as long as they are replaced by a variety of healthy foods. A child might want ice cream, but how about frozen pineapple, frozen banana, and some whole plain yogurt in a blender to make a fruity sorbet/ice cream?

the truth is, there is a lot of variety out there, and we can provide so much for our children by being creative and open to what they CAN eat rather than focusing on what they cannot eat.

and we can do this by encouraging healthy food choices, restricting access to foods that can harm them, and when they do come into contact with those foods, explain why they would be unhealthy and how that works for that child.

Well said, Zoebird!

Originally Posted by LisainCalifornia

I think using a good dose of common sense and sticking with an overall healthy diet (a nutrionist at a good Children's Hospital should be able to help you design an appropriate diet) would be a good first step. Kids do tend to like sweets, but if taught appropriate moderation in childhood will often do better than extreme deprivation. So eating a piece of fruit for dessert most of the week, but having something like a slice of banana bread or ice cream for dessert on Saturday night.

The common sense of people aware of the gut-neuro connection is not common sense to people uneducated in this area (like a "nutritionist at a good children's hospital.") Those same doctors at those same childrens' hospitals refuse to acknowledge any connection between vaccines & gut health, let alone the food connection.

Ice cream once a week would only further destroy the gut in a person reacting to casein & would consequently prevent healing.

Originally Posted by zoebird

fat is so important.

i keep thinking about that scene in disney's Alice in Wonderland, in which the mad hatter and the march hare set loose that weird mouse. he goes haywire, and they put something on his nose.

it might be jelly, but i think it's butter. the butter is what settles him.

and i think, that makes perfect sense.

It's jelly. We read it last night.

[motocita]

bluebell, i understand completely your angst. i have been there so many times. i feel like dealing with my dd's allergies/intolerances has aged me. i feel like i have been to hell and back, so many times! people who haven't experienced it just have no idea.

my dd is 3.5 now. i have tried everything yet we must still be grain-free. also can't eat too many nuts, which makes SCD difficult. she also has phenol sensitivity, so fruits and veggies give her a reaction.

it really sounds to me like you're going through a phase with her. if it were me, i would be strong and stick to what you know is right for her. at the same time, try to remain calm and relaxed about it (i know it's so hard) but it really does make a huge difference.

there have been many doubters here on this thread. with my dd, she would get eczema which kept her up all night itching until her skin bled. she would have horrible days of whining and tantruming and being miserable, all from a tiny bite of bread. non-SCD dairy leads to defiant behavior. nobody can be happy when this is happening.

now that i understand which foods cause which problems, she is a calm and happy. no more fights, no more tantrums. she does feel bad when she sees someone eating something she can't eat, but that feeling doesn't last long. especially if i have a treat for her that is just for her. it actually makes her feel special.

having said that though, i do avoid situations that will be too tempting.

good luck. i think you're doing a great thing for your child.