help! please any advice? worried dd will get eating disorders because we have such a restricted... - Page 5

[thismama]

Unfortunately relying on 'mama instinct' has meant women who have grown up in a culture with very unhealthy ideas about women + food end up passing those ideas onto our children. I wish it was simple enough that we could call it 'instinct' and not question it. Unfortunately this is not the case.

[TCMoulton]

I have a friend that lived with extremely restrictive parents regarding food choices and the minute she started junoir high where she got to have some control over what she ate she started a viscious cycle of binging and purging. She has been a bulimic and anorexic for more years of her life than she has spent healthy. Her disease will take her life, probably in the very near future. I would hate to see another child go down this path. No one is saying allow your child to go hog wild and allow your child to eat whatever her little heart desires but allowing her to have monething that satisfies her desire for sweets would probably do a lot to good in this situation. Moderation is a good thing.

[barose]

Originally Posted by TCMoulton

Moderation is a good thing.

“Moderation” doesn’t apply if you have an actual food allergy/intolerance.

[LionTigerBear]

Originally Posted by thismama

They [children] do not have the same dietary needs as adults... <snip>

...moderation is good.

Where an allergy, intolerance, or addiction exists, moderation is NOT good.

Now, I agree that children do not have the same dietary needs as adults. Obviously they require less food overall, possibly more fats depending on the age, and possibly more protein. But that doesn't mean they require more carbs or sugar. In fact, if anything, sugar and simple carbs are worse for children whose bodies and brains are still forming, than they are for adults.

[thismama]

Well, but it's very vague and subjective, allergy and 'addiction' in this particular case. Peanut allergy, yes I take your point. Child eats peanuts = child gets hives. But food issues are not only physical, they are also psychological, and we have not fully unravelled the mystery of carbs/sugars and 'addiction' vs. actual needs. Carbs provide energy, sugar fuels the brain. Yes refined carbs and sugars are converted by the body much too quickly and result in a blood sugar spike and crash that results in a desire/need for more. But food also brings pleasure, having everything we put in our bodies controlled can be very invasive and a real violation. Moderation can really assist with sugar spike 'addiction' stuff... like eating proteins and fats can greatly slow down absorbtion of even refined carbohydrate sugars, and finding lower glycemic solutions that are **still satisfying** can be a way to negotiate the desire to eat something pleasurable vs the desire to be physically healthy and not get sucked into a sugar rise/crash cycle.

I think the key here is to work *with* the child to determine the balance, not to impose rigid structures and be unbending 'for her own good.' It seems the rest of the family is not following this rigid design as strictly as it is imposed on the child, either. Dad eats lots of 'off limits' foods, and even mama said she had raw cream which could have entered breastmilk, which tells me the child is not allowed cream but the mama is. if you can't live it, don't impose it on someone else. Even if you can live it, if you try to impose it on someone else and they balk at it, you have to relax a little.

Otherwise yes, you are responsible for creating a lot of issues for someone around food. That is the reality.

[AsYouWish]

Originally Posted by barose

“Moderation” doesn’t apply if you have an actual food allergy/intolerance.

And I'll just repeat myself: Unless you have lived it, you just don't know. I don't want to waste my energy arguing with people who refuse to believe that that might actually be true. So, I'm outta here.

Good luck bluebell!

[thismama]

Originally Posted by AsYouWish

And I'll just repeat myself: Unless you have lived it, you just don't know. I don't want to waste my energy arguing with people who refuse to believe that that might actually be true. So, I'm outta here.

Good luck bluebell!

Some of us have lived it and have different perspectives than you. Just sayin'.

[425lisamarie]

Originally Posted by thismama

Some of us have lived it and have different perspectives than you. Just sayin'.

I really agree. And the problem is "scientific evidence" and such is very much open to interpretation. If you fear something, it forces a much difference perspective also. Alergy/intolerance/addiction....so many words and describing all different things, and furthermore everyone has their own interpretation of that, too.

DD reacts to certain foods very obviously. Eggs equal red skin. Actually she is outgrowing her allergies but it is all very confusing and frustrating for anyone dealing with any food issue

[bluebell]

i've now managed to work out whats been going on, and it makes so much sense that dd has been behaving like this. an incident happened a few weeks ago that i completly forgotton about when i first posted and i only just remembered when i was trying to figure out why this had all come up suddenly. it was a few weeks ago, but dp had some white flour highly refined carb crackers for cheese in the cupboard. i walked into the kitchen one morning and heard him saying to dd 'shush don't tell mummy' i did hear this and i asked what was going on to which dd said, 'umm i don't want to tell you'. she has always told me whats going on even if it is something she wouldn't want to, so i was very suprised and i question futher meanwhile dp is giggleing. she had a cracker in her hand half eaten and it turned out that she had already eaten one and that was the second one. dp had actually told her to not tell me and to keep it a secret. i was so angry with him i couldn't believe he had actually told her to do this, when previously she had always told me things and she had never sneaked anything behind my back. i had forgotton about this and now i realise that basically dp has caused all this and i'm furious i don't know how to repair the damage. i was so furious with him at the time he said he gave her the cracker because when i asked him why he gave her them he said he wanted to treat her!!!! for one i don't use food as a treat and wouldn't use it as a 'treat' even if it was sugar.

so since remembering this i spoke to him about it last night. he said he realises it was totally stupid to do and that he agrees she reacts really badly to these foods (he's seen what it does to her). he believes what i'm doing is best for her, i told him it is extremely important that he dosn't eat this food around her or have it in the house and he's agreed to that now. that is great to hear, but what can i do about the fact that he has basically taught dd that she should sneak foods and not tell me? he says it was just that one time, but dd only needed to hear it once. he has created this eating disorder behaviour and i'm devasted. we didn't have a problem before she trusted me and i trusted her now this is broken. and now the fact that she has had these foods is causing her to crave more and so we are in a viscious cycle.

[bluebell]

Originally Posted by LionTigerBear

I didn't see this addressed yet, so I wanted to mention that anorexia has been linked to B1 and/or zinc deficiency.

I also think if anorexia or bulimia did result from weird, controlling behavior with re: to food, it would be more like arbitrary portion control, parents that horde and ration food, withholding food as a punishment, forced eating, and that sort of thing-- not from enforcing a healthy diet.

Bluebell, I think what you are doing is just fine and that you need to get your husband on board.

liontigerbear thanks yes i agree that kind of restrictiveness is probably more likely to cause problems. that is why i'm really worried about what dp has done, because we didn't have these issues until he gave her the 'treat' and told her to keep it quiet.

[krankedyann]

Yikes, bluebell. So sorry.

[bluebell]

Originally Posted by AsYouWish

How fortunate for some of you that you have never had to deal with the extreme ill effects on both your physical and mental health from sugar/carbs/gluten/wheat/whatever. Some people happen to be extremely sensitive to certain kinds of foods, and because of that food's impact on brain chemistry, they end up craving-craving-craving the food that hurts them.

There can be extreme consequences to this kind of addiction. I have suffered with terrible depression with daily thoughts of suicide (and have attempted suicide more than once) since I was ten years old. And before that time, since very early childhood, I struggled with extremes in emotions and behavior that I realize now were not within the range of normal. It took me twenty years to figure out that I am reacting to wheat and sugar. During the times that I have been able to cut both of those out of my diet, I have mental clarity and am absolutely free of depression and suicidal ideation. But it is still an addiction. So whenever I cave and have "just a bite" of my forbidden foods (which are everywhere!) it sets off a whole cascade of out-of-control-can't-think-of-anything-else cravings and near-immediate clinical level depression which makes me more vulnerable to succumbing to those cravings. And so the cycle goes on.

And if I ever had a child who was showing signs of having the same sensitivity/addiction, you better believe that I would do everything in my power to keep him/her from even starting down this path. Because being addicted to the foods that are readily available every moment of every day is not a spectacular way of life, especially when those foods make you want to shoot yourself in the head.

I believe you are doing the right thing OP and, for whatever it's worth, you have my 100% support and empathy. For the doubters, unless you have lived it, you just don't know. Count yourself so very lucky.

this is exactly what those foods did to me, i can so relate to this. food is powerful stuff, it also took me years to figure this out, i couldn't understand because everyone around me was eating these foods, i thought it was just something wrong with me!
thanks for your support and empathy.
i hope that with a TF diet my dd will be spared this pain.

[AsYouWish]

Originally Posted by bluebell

this is exactly what those foods did to me, i can so relate to this. food is powerful stuff, it also took me years to figure this out, i couldn't understand because everyone around me was eating these foods, i thought it was just something wrong with me!
thanks for your support and empathy.
i hope that with a TF diet my dd will be spared this pain.

I'm glad that we have both figured it out, especially for the sake of our children.

[zoebird]

i think that you're making good progress, blue bell, and i hope that you continue to get support from your DP, and that it extends to family and friends.

it should be noted that a lot of this is about communication. your daughter is old enough to observe her experience when eating "bad" foods and how she feels and how it affects her. this is the easiest way--when confronted with these situations--to help her make positive choices.

i was working with some children with ADHD, and one of the things i recommended to these kids (8 yr old boys) was to observe their reaction to sugar. what occurred was that the boys started to notice that they felt "busy and crazy" when they had sugar, and so they started self-regulating. one of those boys is now 15 and has been sugar free for 5 whole years!

no eating disorder, no need to control, etc.

as for eating disorders, they usually come from a psychological origin as well as a biological one. there are connections between nutrient deficiencies and eating disorders, but those who are most likely to go into them are those who are raised in conditional love environments filled with shame.

so, if you're not raising your child in a conditional love environment filled with shame, you're less likely to have a child with an eating disorder.

[zoebird]

i think another aspect worth looking at is whether or not this diet is truly "restrictive."

the truth is that there are restrictions on the diet--there are restrictions in most family's diets in some form or another. but, that doesn't mean that the diet is necessarily restrictive to the point of being harming.

i would assert that a diet that is too restrictive is one that not only includes too few foods (lack of diversity) and too few calories to provide for the individual as well as housed in a great deal of shaming language around food.

but, a diet that is diverse but excludes certain foods such as vegetarianism isn't necessarily "restrictive" if it is diverse and has enough calories for the child.

children's diets do not require wheat, sugar, flour, coffee, etc. our health does not require these things--our mental or physical health.

it is perfectly appropriate to 'restrict' these things from the diet, as long as they are replaced by a variety of healthy foods. A child might want ice cream, but how about frozen pineapple, frozen banana, and some whole plain yogurt in a blender to make a fruity sorbet/ice cream?

the truth is, there is a lot of variety out there, and we can provide so much for our children by being creative and open to what they CAN eat rather than focusing on what they cannot eat.

and we can do this by encouraging healthy food choices, restricting access to foods that can harm them, and when they do come into contact with those foods, explain why they would be unhealthy and how that works for that child.

[kjbrown92]

The tantrums and behavior problems sound like food intolerances to me, and yes, you have to avoid those foods. My DD is turning 3 in a couple weeks. We have a lock on our pantry so that she can't steal food. She does it too. If someone leaves in apple on the counter, she will steal it, and hide under the table to eat it. I take it out of her hands, and tell her it isn't her "happy food". When I feed her the things she can have, I tell her that is her happy food. Because when she has the "bad' food, she's up all night screaming in pain, and getting eczema, etc. My son, who is 7, also has food intolerances. Last time we tested him on milk, he screamed all night long. I said, do you want to drink milk and do this every night, or would you rather not have the milk? And he said "no milk." He's very good about checking ingredients etc. I do find treats for them. As in, DD gets maple sugar candy (the only one I can find that she can have), or I made sesame candy (sesame and honey - easy to make).

At that age, with those responses to food, you DO need to control her diet. And friends and relatives should be told of the food issues as well. Tell them she has food intolerances, for lack of a better term for the mood problems. But give into her on other things - let her have choices of what to wear, books to read, etc. so that she feels that she has a choice in some things. So you're not controlling everything about her. If you give her more of those choices, then maybe she'll be better on the food issues.

You sound like you're dealing with a lot. And maybe you need some professional help as well.

Good luck.

[LisainCalifornia]

and contrary to popular belief (at least here) allergies and food interances can also have absolutely nothing to do with food intake--sometimes it is just a neurological condition totally independent of diet. This child may just be on one end of an extreme spectrum of behavior--and probably does have some kind neuro issue, but that does not have to take the detour to "diet sensitivity".

I think using a good dose of common sense and sticking with an overall healthy diet (a nutrionist at a good Children's Hospital should be able to help you design an appropriate diet) would be a good first step. Kids do tend to like sweets, but if taught appropriate moderation in childhood will often do better than extreme deprivation. So eating a piece of fruit for dessert most of the week, but having something like a slice of banana bread or ice cream for dessert on Saturday night.

I think if you are severely obese as a parent it can be hard not to project your issues with food onto your child, not realizing that you are continuing the cycle by over reaction---not stopping it like you are wanting to.

[bluebell]

Originally Posted by LisainCalifornia

and contrary to popular belief (at least here) allergies and food interances can also have absolutely nothing to do with food intake--sometimes it is just a neurological condition totally independent of diet. This child may just be on one end of an extreme spectrum of behavior--and probably does have some kind neuro issue, but that does not have to take the detour to "diet sensitivity".

I think using a good dose of common sense and sticking with an overall healthy diet (a nutrionist at a good Children's Hospital should be able to help you design an appropriate diet) would be a good first step. Kids do tend to like sweets, but if taught appropriate moderation in childhood will often do better than extreme deprivation. So eating a piece of fruit for dessert most of the week, but having something like a slice of banana bread or ice cream for dessert on Saturday night.

I think if you are severely obese as a parent it can be hard not to project your issues with food onto your child, not realizing that you are continuing the cycle by over reaction---not stopping it like you are wanting to.

i feel i have to respond to this because this is not our situation. my dd is under the guidance of a very experienced MD who is also a nutritionist she specialises in the gut/brain connection and there are many other people following similar diets on this forum. in our case moderation does not work, we are talking about a child who reacts to certain foods the smallest amount will be problematic for her. she simply can't eat certain foods.
having a sugar dessert one night a week might work for a child who has no problem with eating a little bit of these foods ocasionally but this isn't our case. i really don't think she has any neuro issue apart from having reactions to certain foods, this totally is about food sensitivity when her diet was as it should be we don't have the severe behavioural problems that we have when its not (of course we get the normal 4yr old behaviour stuff - but i can tell the difference between the extreme behaviour and 'normal')

just like to add that i am not obese or over weight (within normal for my height) i have no problem with my weight and even when i was compulsively eating i never got overweight just heavier than normal. i don't have a problem with weight that isn't the issue for me. my body craved refined carbs like a drug, i was in a cycle of addiction. i have checked dd's behaviour out with our nutrionist and sshe has confirmed that the cravings are completly normal if she had eaten some of the foods that cause her problems. the sneaking behaviour has come from being 'taught' to do so by dp.

[LionTigerBear]

Originally Posted by LisainCalifornia

I think if you are severely obese as a parent it can be hard not to project your issues with food onto your child, not realizing that you are continuing the cycle by over reaction---not stopping it like you are wanting to.

I'm sure you didn't mean it that way, but just to let you know, this part does come off as offensive.

My son is on a similar diet to the OPs, and like the OP, I am not nor have I ever been obese.

This has nothing to do with having body image issues and thus wanting one's children to look "slim" and "pretty"-- don't know if that's what you are reffering to but it sure seems like it, which is the offending part.

By the way, my son was always super skinny before we put him on the diet. Since he's been on the diet, he has not only grown 8 inches in less than a year, but also filled out and "plumped up"-- put on a healthy amount of weight.

[zoebird]

it should be noted that most people who restrict their children in various ways (anything from TF to vegetarianism to desert-like foods once a week) are not necessarily people with food or weight issues.

every family chooses to restrict one way or another. there's really no problem with restricting a child's diet. in fact, most nutritionists agree that children's diets should be restricted to a predominence of healthy foods.