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What do you think? No visits until November  

post #1 of 21
2/24/08 at 5:11pm
Thread Starter 
I'm going through our schools policy handbook and they do not allow parent classroom visits until November. What do you think of this?
post #2 of 21
2/24/08 at 5:35pm
Hmmm...personally I would not like this at all. One of the things that I love about my DD's school is that on her first day last week we stayed for 3 hours (1.5 hours in the classroom with her, 1.5 hours sitting in the lobby so she couldn't see us) and at the end of the day the teacher stressed that we were welcome at any time to come into her classroom. It's a very open door policy and if they would have told me that I didn't have the privilege to observe, that would have really turned me off. Now, it's not something I would ever abuse and once my DD is comfortable in her classroom I will sign her in and say my goodbye's. Just having a teacher tell me that I'm welcome at any time gave me a very good feeling about her and the school.

Maybe the school means a full day of observation? I would ask if you could pop in anytime and stay for 10 or 15 minutes. I realize that having parents in and out of the classroom can be very disruptive, but I think that you SHOULD be welcome anytime. If a parent starts to abuse it, then I could see the school having issue with it.

That's just me. I wouldn't like that "policy".
post #3 of 21
2/24/08 at 5:43pm
Is there a window or other spying location? I remember standing in some bushes outside of my daughter's daycare when she was 2 and peeking into the window to watch her. I could have gone in, but I knew that once she saw me, I'd never be able to observe how she was doing when I wasn't around. Plus, she'd expect me to take her home after that. Later, the staff told me that they're used to parents peeking over the fence and lurking around the windows.

For me, though... the need to observe is because I want to see my child in action independent from me, not because I doubt the care they are getting is good.... So actually sitting in the class doesn't really work for me because even sitting silently, my daughters know I am there and behave differently.
post #4 of 21
2/24/08 at 5:53pm
what type of school are you considering? It doesnt look like any of your little ones are 'school' age yet
post #5 of 21
2/24/08 at 5:54pm
however if they stated "No visits for 3 mos" that would raise some serious red flags for me
post #6 of 21
2/24/08 at 6:35pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lingmom View Post
Is there a window or other spying location? I remember standing in some bushes outside of my daughter's daycare when she was 2 and peeking into the window to watch her. I could have gone in, but I knew that once she saw me, I'd never be able to observe how she was doing when I wasn't around. Plus, she'd expect me to take her home after that. Later, the staff told me that they're used to parents peeking over the fence and lurking around the windows.

For me, though... the need to observe is because I want to see my child in action independent from me, not because I doubt the care they are getting is good.... So actually sitting in the class doesn't really work for me because even sitting silently, my daughters know I am there and behave differently.
That's a good point. My DD's classroom is off of the main lobby area and they have split doors (the kind that you can open either the top or bottom half) and it's really easy to sneak a peek at them when only the top portion is open or cracked. I agree that they would act differently with you there.
post #7 of 21
2/24/08 at 8:05pm
Thread Starter 
It's a Montessori children's house, aged 3-5 in that classroom. I'll ask the admissions director about it. They have tight security so they don't have parent volunteers and all their teachers and staff are background checked. I like the security part but am a little concerned about the transition. My oldest is a confident kid and they have a nice practice of bringing in the 3 year olds and giving them more attention in the beginning weeks. They also have a new families cookout and things like that so there are social opportunities. Other parents have told me that they get a good amount of communication from the teachers. It's a drawback but we otherwise like the school.

There are a few things I'm struggling with. I haven't actually met any of the teachers, we observed 2 classrooms for a few minutes each and I observed another while I was waiting for my son's interview. The rooms have real M materials and the vibe at the school seems relaxed and happy. So maybe I'm stressing over this transition.

Visits must be planned in advance with the office after November and then they say they will tell you how to behave in the classroom as to not disrupt them.
post #8 of 21
2/25/08 at 12:14am
I think this is a typical request/policy at Montessori schools. We are not allowed to sit in the classroom and observe until after DS has been there two months. The reason is that the child will be so new to the class that the parent won't be able to observe him/her doing any work - their child will just run up to the parents and want to talk to them.

Our school does have windows in the classroom doors, though. We are able to watch through the window anytime we want (the kids can't see thru it as it's a one-way mirrored window).
post #9 of 21
2/25/08 at 12:23am
Quote:
Originally Posted by gottaknit View Post
I think this is a typical request/policy at Montessori schools. We are not allowed to sit in the classroom and observe until after DS has been there two months. The reason is that the child will be so new to the class that the parent won't be able to observe him/her doing any work - their child will just run up to the parents and want to talk to them.

Our school does have windows in the classroom doors, though. We are able to watch through the window anytime we want (the kids can't see thru it as it's a one-way mirrored window).
Same policy here.
post #10 of 21
2/25/08 at 2:47am
I actually took a school out of the running because they didn't allow parent volunteers very freely (they had one day a month parents were allowed). I see parents as central to their children's education, and believe they should be encouraged to participate in the classroom/school if they so desire. So that's a deal breaker for me. The school I chose allows parents to come whenever pretty much, but they do ask that you call and let them know you are coming as a courtesy.
post #11 of 21
2/25/08 at 3:29am
The reasoning at our school is that it is the Children's House and adults tend to take over. Non-Montessori trained adults in the classroom tend "help" too much. When we do ovbserve, they ask us to sit quietly out of the way.
post #12 of 21
2/25/08 at 3:58am
Quote:
Originally Posted by gottaknit View Post
I think this is a typical request/policy at Montessori schools. We are not allowed to sit in the classroom and observe until after DS has been there two months. The reason is that the child will be so new to the class that the parent won't be able to observe him/her doing any work - their child will just run up to the parents and want to talk to them.

).
our school was the same way. They wanted you to observe starting in Oct., just so you can get a good idea of what your child is doing. At this point they figure the children will have learned the classroom and the works.
post #13 of 21
2/25/08 at 11:10am
Quote:
Originally Posted by DahliaRW View Post
I actually took a school out of the running because they didn't allow parent volunteers very freely (they had one day a month parents were allowed). I see parents as central to their children's education, and believe they should be encouraged to participate in the classroom/school if they so desire. So that's a deal breaker for me. The school I chose allows parents to come whenever pretty much, but they do ask that you call and let them know you are coming as a courtesy.
Parents should be able to sit quietly and observe the classroom. I agree with a waiting period. Few realize just how much an adult (even a teacher) is a distraction to the child's learning time. It's hard to remember even as a teacher sometimes.

A 1 way mirror is the best option for this. That way, you do not need a time period between. I can't tell you how glad I was at the schools that had that observation area. There is no distraction with a 1 way mirror.

Remember that the Montessori classroom is a place for children to develop a sense of ownership in the environment. It must be theirs. The parents can add to that by doing enrichment activities that they schedule a time for with the teacher. Maybe they are able to bring in things from another country or they have some talent they can share with the students they would enjoy.

Remember that the policy of how to handle visitors is there because the school is for the child - not for the parent.

The majority of the time, I can't even participate in the child's learning activities and I'm the teacher!!!! It's not my activity - it is theirs. That's a hardest part of learning to be a teacher in a Montessori classroom. It's something that I am sure most adults do not understand and would not provide that opportunity for the child until after they have normalized.

To the idea of peeking through windows, trust me. That is worse. It's better that you are in the classroom than doing that if you get caught. If a child sees you looking in through outside, guess where they're always going to think you are? Guess how hard it is to keep a screaming child from constantly running out of the room every time they remember that mom might be outside?

Before enrolling, you have seen the classroom. You've seen it normalized. You've seen the children working. You've learned at least a little about the philosophy of Montessori. If you have concerns that it is not safe, by all means - run. However, if it's a matter of not wanting to let the child go to school and separate, give the Montessori Method time to work its magic. You know it will work.

After that time, I think parents should have some observation time. Teaching the child? No...we don't even "teach" in the normal sense of the word. The child learns on his/her own. Any adult interference to that beyond what is necessary disrupts that natural flow.

Matt
post #14 of 21
2/25/08 at 11:31am
Thread Starter 
Since I won't be able to observe the transitional period, I'd love to know more about how that time works with new children, and what some of the lessons and challenges are during that time. What do kids generally do and what are some of the things they experience while adapting to the M environment? Thanks!
post #15 of 21
2/25/08 at 12:29pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by KBecks View Post
Since I won't be able to observe the transitional period, I'd love to know more about how that time works with new children, and what some of the lessons and challenges are during that time. What do kids generally do and what are some of the things they experience while adapting to the M environment? Thanks!
What a great question. I hope I answer it well here :-) I am curious if other teachers have similar experiences.

The first month or two of school often consists of the teacher focusing on fine tuning the child's focus. It may be they remind the student to push in their chair, walk a child through the steps of cleaning up an activity, focusing on making sure certain rules are followed ("No, you may not eat everything at the snack table!")

In reality, this time period is crucial. It's a matter of refinement and helping the student internalize the order of the classroom.

Suddenly, a fascinating thing happens somewhere along the way in this process. A child suddenly develops that deep focus that we see. Others begin focusing as well. Pretty soon, the whole class begins to consistently develop this deep focus during a good portion of their work period.

What has to happen in those first few months is the order has to be set. If a person wants to teach at that time, they should honestly ask themselves if they know exactly what the order is to cleaning up the easle? Do they know exactly how to carry the red rods? How well are they going to know when to sit back and do nothing and when to jump in and help? It's a hard balance to learn.

I'm not taking anything away from the importance of parents in education. I believe more strongly in that than I believe in my importance as a teacher. I just do have to point out that what we have, in the Montessori model, are two distinctly different jobs.

Teaching in a Montessori classroom without understanding the Montessori Method is like working in an automotive tune up shop without understanding the spark plug. It's not a matter of pride on the part of the teacher to say parents should have a time period where they do not interfere with the classroom. It really is so that time is available for the child to really refine themselves in the classroom so they can grow.

Let me quote Angeline Stoll Lillard on this in her book Montessori: The Science Behind the Genius:

"Parent participation in the classroom, however, is antiethical to Montessori because a key ingredient is that the Montessori classroom is the children's place. Children may cease to help one another in the face of readily available adult assistance. Parents also may try to run the show and influence children's choices and interest. It thus may not work to put parents in Montessori classrooms. What parents can do, if properly trained.. (Edit: gives a list of things)
....parents need to respect that their day-to-day involvement in a Montessori classroom, contrary to traditional systems, may not be positive, since Montessori is about helping children become independent, whereas traditional education has relatively more emphasis on adults transmitting knowledge to children and controlling their behavior, goals that are readily achieved when more adults are present." (Page 335, italics in the original. Bold is my emphasis.)



Matt
post #16 of 21
2/25/08 at 1:19pm
Our school isn't big on parent visiting at all actually. They don't forbid it. But they aren't that keen on it. This may be a cultural thing, but the same is true with all the schools around us, including public schools, and a lot of daycare centres.

I have access to my child whenever I want. But I am not really welcome in the classroom unless I have a specific reason to be there that day, that fits in with the curriculum, volunteer schedule, etc.

I'm ok with that because I am comfortable with the staff and have snuck up and looked through the windows and all that. I would say if this is just one concern then it's just deciding if it's a deal breaker for you or not. If this is one concern of several and you are not comfortable with it, that's really important information.
post #17 of 21
2/25/08 at 5:40pm
Thread Starter 
We're very pleased with what we've seen of the school and I've checked in with other parents who have reported high satisfaction. It's reassuring to know that other M schools have similar practices and to know more information about why it's done that way. Thanks!
post #18 of 21
2/26/08 at 1:01am
Quote:
Originally Posted by KBecks View Post
We're very pleased with what we've seen of the school and I've checked in with other parents who have reported high satisfaction. It's reassuring to know that other M schools have similar practices and to know more information about why it's done that way. Thanks!
No problem
post #19 of 21
2/27/08 at 9:44pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by KBecks View Post
Since I won't be able to observe the transitional period, I'd love to know more about how that time works with new children, and what some of the lessons and challenges are during that time. What do kids generally do and what are some of the things they experience while adapting to the M environment? Thanks!
My DS is in his second month of school. Whenever I peek in the window/mirror, he is usually wandering around and chatting with his friends, or eating snacks. I asked his teacher, and was assured that wandering around is totally normal in the beginning.

And Matt's comment about the snacks cracked me up. I've been asked to remind DS at home that everyone gets one snack; he can't continually eat snacks all morning! He was eating so much they were running out of supplies midweek. (So that's why he never wants lunch... )
post #20 of 21
2/28/08 at 12:55pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by gottaknit View Post
My DS is in his second month of school. Whenever I peek in the window/mirror, he is usually wandering around and chatting with his friends, or eating snacks. I asked his teacher, and was assured that wandering around is totally normal in the beginning.

And Matt's comment about the snacks cracked me up. I've been asked to remind DS at home that everyone gets one snack; he can't continually eat snacks all morning! He was eating so much they were running out of supplies midweek. (So that's why he never wants lunch... )
hehe. We had a set of twins : who were identical. After about a month, we got used to their personalities well enough that we could tell which one is which when talking to them, but not while watching them sit there. You guessed it...they always tried to claim it was the OTHER person we saw having snack two times and this was their first time. ::

We knew who to blame when the food disappeared

:

Matt, who just wants to have fun with smilies in this post. I promise I won't make it a habit.
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