Violation?

[walking burp cloth]

Hi- I am a doula in training. Yesterday I was able to be at my 6th birth. My client did really well, relaxed beatifully, and got to have a natural child birth like she wanted. She had her baby in hospital and her caregivers were CNM's. The CNM that was there for her birth was pretty great in most ways. She even left mom, dad, and I in the room alone to push for a while. (this I have never experienced - there is usually a nurse around or something) But, when she was around during the pushing stage, she was real chatty and trying to make conversation and I really wanted to tell her to shut her can, but did not know if that was my place. Also, during the pushing stage, she was seemed to be really rough with my clients vagina. Digging around in there and doing some major streching. She did not tear while the head was being born, and the CNM forcefully pulled the baby's body out (I'm not sure why, she was pushing great!). She tore pretty substancally, and it was not a big baby - 6lbs 9oz. I have seen it done much gentler, and my own two experience were gentler also. My 2nd was born at home. Is this common? Normal? I feel like she was violated... I have not talked with her yet, and will be careful not to taint her perception if she views it as good. what do you all think of this?

[forthebest]

I think that is shoddy and insensitive, I for one would not accept being treated like that and I was treated like that with my first birth. I uc'ed twice after that and was not subjected to what I call violation. No respect for womens bodies, the idle chit-chat a drain on the birthing environment. Just another number.

[Sage.Naissance]

I dont know why people seem to think that babies wont come out unless they are yanked out and vaginas are prauded and pulled on. What crap. But, as a doula.... get used to it...

[nashvillemidwife]

It does sound as if the delivery was handled inappropriately, but in a situation like this I would always recommend that you discuss it and see if there might be more to the situation. Did the midwife have any indication that the baby or mom might be in trouble and would benefit from this type of "assistance"? Probably not, but still, you shouldn't pass judgment until you have all the facts.

[hapi2help]

I recall *fondly* nearly screaming at my l&d nurse to "get her hands out of there"! It literally drove me over the edge. I could concentrate on pushing so much more without her *help*.

So yes, I did experience this and will speak up in advance for my next delivery if someone wants to get touchy.

[momileigh]

Common, yeah, I think so. Crap like this is why I didn't stay a doula for long! I hope you can hang in there as a doula.

[DoomaYula]

Isn't be a doula fun sometimes?

If a nurse is being too chatty, I just ignore her. If she's ignoring me ignoring her, I'll mention that the mom needs to concentrate and would appreciate silence.

As far as babies being yanked or pulled, yeah, I've seen that a lot. I agree with the pp that docs and CNMs seem to think a baby can't be born on its own. Many of them have never seen normal natural childbirth I guess.

Go with your client's lead. If she says, "It felt like the CNM was being rough..." then you can talk about it with her. Otherwise, welcome to MDC.

[tree_hugger]

I attended my first birth as a doula last month. The mum was attended by a midwife in a hospital.

I was shocked when the midwife reach in and yanked the baby out! I would expect an OB to do this but I really thought (from watching so many birth videos on YouTube) the midwife would just "catch".

The baby was a bit shocked and slow to start breathing, so then she cut his cord and took him away for oxygen. With the benefit of hindsight, I wonder if it was because she hurried his descent so dramatically.

[bullfrog]

I had a whole thoughtful post written out and poof! it's gone....

OK- take two.

I don't think you should dispair at all. Don't 'get used' to it. Use it as a teaching tool for your future clients. Be very general and don't use specific information. But educate your clients about the very specific ways of delivering a baby. Help them form an opinion about how they want things handled. Then coach them on how to have meaningful conversations with their doc/midwife. They should be able to impart to their caregivers how important it is to them that the birth be as gentle as possible. They should be aware of what the possibilities are and they should be able to ask their caregiver what their plan is once the baby starts crowning.

I've had expeirience with a doc (OB) who was notorious for episiotomies - and all the doulas knew about this particular habit. We all coached our clients who had chosen her as their doc. And I saw the difference it really made. This particular doc really did listen and she became quite brilliant at not only avoiding episitomies, but at helping avoid tearing altogether.
Everything is an opportunity. Good luck.

[bullfrog]

Good lard....triple post.....triple sigh....

[bullfrog]

Double post............sigh

[walking burp cloth]

The baby was a bit shocked and slow to start breathing, so then she cut his cord and took him away for oxygen. With the benefit of hindsight, I wonder if it was because she hurried his descent so dramatically.

Good Thoughts! This little guy has also had problems with his oxygen!! The hospital is in Denver and we live up in the mountains, so we already have the high altitude factor, and he was born on friday, and they are still not home!!

[walking burp cloth]

I don't think you should dispair at all. Don't 'get used' to it. Use it as a teaching tool for your future clients. Be very general and don't use specific information. But educate your clients about the very specific ways of delivering a baby. Help them form an opinion about how they want things handled. Then coach them on how to have meaningful conversations with their doc/midwife. They should be able to impart to their caregivers how important it is to them that the birth be as gentle as possible. They should be aware of what the possibilities are and they should be able to ask their caregiver what their plan is once the baby starts crowning.

I've had expeirience with a doc (OB) who was notorious for episiotomies - and all the doulas knew about this particular habit. We all coached our clients who had chosen her as their doc. And I saw the difference it really made. This particular doc really did listen and she became quite brilliant at not only avoiding episitomies, but at helping avoid tearing altogether.
Everything is an opportunity. Good luck.

Thanks for this!! I was starting to get a little discouraged. I will definately use this as a learning experience and for future clients. I think this kind of "care" gives natural childbirth a bad reputation though.

[walking burp cloth]

Did the midwife have any indication that the baby or mom might be in trouble and would benefit from this type of "assistance"? Probably not, but still, you shouldn't pass judgment until you have all the facts.

Mom and babe were both doing great.... CNM and the nurse both kept saying so.