how far would you travel everyday to take your dc to a montessori school?

[mamamelia]

ok, here is the situation. the enrollments officer called me today and said that they will be offering dd a place very soon - our letter of offer will be in my hands tomorrow!!!! overall, we were very pleased with the school (proper materials, very friendly teachers, beautiful surroundings, and a SN teacher that will come twice a week to help dd in addition to the directess trying her best to meet dd's needs). the school has been running for over 25 years and has an excellent reputation.

when i first looked at it's location on the train map (this is when i asked for the prospectus to be mailed and made the appointment), i somehow misjudged which train line i actually had to take and i thought it was roughly a 45-60 minute maximum trip. it turns out the trip will take 90 minutes ONE WAY via public transport. it's only 45 minutes if i drove, but as odds would have it, i don't drive i have a 15mo who will be tagging along with me. that's 3 hours for the 15mo spent on trains and buses EVERY DAY. also, i do wonder how my dd will take 3 hours of montessori in the morning then a 1.5h trip in the train/bus back without having a meltdown (she has sensory integration/processing issues). am i making a mistake? here is my travel schedule:
walk to bus stop
catch bus to strathfield station
catch train from strathfield station to turramurra (1 hour)
catch bus from turramurra to nearest cross street
walk from cross street to school

pick up dd and repeat backwards.

am i being unrealistic? would you do this? if you would, any tips for handling a spirited toddler for that long on public transport? i think i'm going to have a meltdown myself.

[KBecks]

No way would I do 90 minutes of travel. I think that's too rough on a child, even an adult.

We will have a 20 minute rush hour commute to school and about a 10 minute commute back home. 30-40 minutes would be my absolute maximum and I'd prefer to keep it under 30 minutes.

Are there any options closer to your home or would you be willing to take up driving? I know it's expensive and a big commitment but 90 minutes one way is completely unreasonable.

[Lingmom]

Three hours of travel is way too much for both your kids and for you! Three hours of travel for three hours of school? It doesn't make sense to me.

I take it that you'd hang out for the three hours that she was there?

My guess is that there are other schools that will serve her needs that are closer to you. But... if nothing else will do, then moving to the same town would be a better solution than 3 hours of commute.

A 20 minute one-way commute is about as far as I'd be willing to go... (and that is how far I go).

[BCFD]

Ohhh, that's a tough one. I probably wouldn't do it. I was in a similar situation when I started looking at Mont schools for my DD. Fortunately, we have a plethora of Montessori schools in my area, but the big, fancy, AMI teacher trained school would be about a 45 to 60 min commute in rush hour traffic (one way) and I just wasn't willing to drive that far. It also has a great reputation and I'm sure I would have fallen in love with it had I toured it, but it was just too far. There is also a school that was 1.5 miles from my house that I seriously considered, but ultimately chose the school 7 miles away because it is authentic Montessori and the most loving environment of any school that I toured. So, I was willing to go 15 minutes one way instead of 2 minutes one way, but I definitely wouldn't go 90 minutes UNLESS I just absolutely had no other option. But like a PP poster mentioned, I'd probably think about moving closer to the school.

Good luck! I know this is a tough decision.

[teagansmama]

Nope, I wouldn't do it. If there were no good M's close by, I think I would choose to home school w/ Montessori.

[iamama]

I would not do that commute.

[mamamelia]

i knew i wasn't crazy.... it really is a long way to commute isn't it?

we DO have montessori places close by, but i was not very pleased with them at all. it's a bit of a case where we call the place montessori just because we can if ykwim. the only other place i did like is fully booked out till next year. i don't want to put her in when she is 4.5yo.
i really liked this place because it is an actual school and has been a school for a very long time. i have thought about moving closer. the reason i finally decided to enroll her was because dh can drop her off in the morning and then go to work. he changed his job to one he has been waiting for and his work place is now only 20 minutes away... but he can't pick her up when the 3 hours is over and take her back home then go back to work everyday - that is just not feasible.

i have thought about going in the morning with dh. that way i would avoid one 90 minute trip which takes alot of stress away (for both the toddler and me). then we could go to a near by park to unwind and play or even to the school (i could volunteer with something i guess) and wait for dd to be finished.... then leave all together to go home (here comes the 1.5h commute). but there are a few issues.... what happens when it's raining (absolutely pouring, not just light rain)? also, what happens when it's 40dg (i cannot really tolerate heat over 30dg - i am prone to migraines). i need to think about these issues very carefully as winter is coming up and the weather is crazy. i cannot believe i misjudged the train line originally.... but we've toured the school and spoken with the principal, and i don't really want to go back on my word with dd. also, i am not the best candidate for homeschooling. like i said i am prone to migraines and dd2 doesn't let dd1 do much without bothering her anyway (you know how toddlers are). it is very hard to provide a full homeschooling montessori environment with my kids (one kid always eggs the other kid on). i can most certainly provide an environment that supplements montessori, but not a homeschooling one. i've tried. it didn't go down to well. they need to be seperated to do well, at least in these early years. and i've noticed that when they are seperated, they actually do very well. both dd's concentrate a lot more - even the 15mo will draw or pull her books out and name everything when she is alone, but not when her older sister is around, as they are more interested in making a huge mess together than doing anything semi-productive or quiet. both dd's are very bright but i feel like i am really wasting dd1's intelligence on nothing. and i feel that for now, the best option is for her to go 3 hours a day, 5 days a week where she can have some time to explore her interests and learn at her own pace without anyone disturbing her.

about moving..... i would move, but i was hoping to move closer to my mum once this place sells. that would put me another 10 minutes further out each way, too.... my dad died a year ago and mum is alone. we have no relatives at all, she doesn't drive... it's just me and her really. i couldn't move about 40-50 minutes away.. i just don't have the heart as i'd barely be able to see her.

i should learn how to drive. we already have two working and registered cars... i am just terrified of driving. i don't know why. dh is always bugging me to get my license as he is tired of carting us around when he doesn't want to go.

i have until friday to decide anyway. share your thoughts please.

[BCFD]

we DO have montessori places close by, but i was not very pleased with them at all. it's a bit of a case where we call the place montessori just because we can if ykwim.

Have you toured every single school that is close to you? Maybe you could arrange a 2nd visit to look around again. I did that with one of the schools I was considering, but ultimately chose a school a little further away because it just had a better overall vibe and they take Montessori very, very seriously. The other school, while nice, was just too laid back. I wanted something with a little more structure/seriousness during work time.

So, I would suggest looking at some of the other schools again. Where do you live?

[mamamelia]

i did think about that actually.. but there is not much i'd like to go back and check out. i live in sydney, australia. dd has some SN and i am worried about sending her anywhere to begin with.

i'll give you an example of one experience...
my neighbours son goes to the montessori day care that is in the next street. she had rave reviews and so i thought i'd check it out. my dd and her son love to play together so it could have well been a perfect choice. well, i went to check it out and upon entering, they did not even acknowledge dd even though she was standing right next to me. i was not pleased with that. what ever happened to the greet? why did she greet me but not my daughter who she is meant to treat with the same respect? how rude..
they took me for a tour around the place and the first thing i noticed was the rooms were pretty small in relation to the amount of kids that were at the back. some kids looked really mean and aggressive and dd is prone to bullying. if i saw kids like that at the park, i would turn around and go home, put it that way. kids were pushing others, running rampant, they did not seem to monitor the children's behaivour too well. the owner then gave me a *HUGE* hand out alone on how no nuts were not allowed (they kept going on and on about nuts) and the enrollment papers - nothing else (nothing inspiring about montessori, nothing about how thier classes are run, nothing about how to prepare the child, about the home environment etc which IMO are the *MOST* important handouts that they could give). she explained a few really basic things about montessori, but i mostly had to keep the conversation going and i asked her if dd would be able to advance to the 6-9 math materials only, before she turns 6 since she is very much into math and she said no not until she is 6 and moves to the other side. that doesn't sound very montessori to me. i thought the child was meant to go at thier own pace and if they advanced in one area well before thier age says they could, so be it - the directess should follow. or am i wrong?

i just did not get a good vibe from there. i couldn't get out quick enough. i did not feel that they were there for the kids, moreso to tap into the montessori "market".

but my neighbour loved the fact that they were concerned with nut allergies because her son has a nut allergy. so it worked out great for her son and i'm happy she found a good solution for her family... but that place is definitely not for me.

when i went to the school we are considering, i actually saw the kids in thier after hours school care (not the morning ob) and they were still very calm, very friendly children. no one running rampant or looking like they were ready to pounce on anyone smaller than them. dd actually joined in with a few of the activities at the school while we were taking a tour and the kids welcomed her very nicely. i was *very* impressed. each teacher and the principal greeted her with respect upon entering and leaving. that's the kind of place i'd be happy leaving my child in. and they encourage parents to regularly go to the montessori meetings that they host, so that the parent can become immersed in the method and subsequently provide the best home environment that they can. that screams commitment to wanting to provide the best for thier students during both school hours and when at home.
huge difference to the montessori my neighbours son goes to.

[mamamelia]

i guess i'd better just suck it up and get my license.

i just thought of another experience we had. this place was quite lovely too (which is a little sad actually).. we had just finished checking the place out when i was passing by the 0-3 childrens place and i saw at least two toddlers crying thier eyes out (one saying "mummmy" in between sobbing) and the other seemed really sad and withdrawn and no one was helping her. no one soothed them or went up to them. my heart just broke for these two little girls. and i do recall the directess telling me that if one child is "having a fit" they keep carrying on like normal till the child realises it's not working and will stop. wow. i can see this working for *some* kids, but not dd and anyway, i don't think it's right to ignore ones feelings no matter how little. my dd has problems self regulating (part of her condition) and that would NOT go down well at all. she needs a shoulder to cry on for a minute and a loving hug and then she's ok. if she is not soothed she can carry on practically forever and then becomes distrusting and nervous afterwards. i was confused though... because this same person also told me that they often carry new kids around for a few days to help them feel safe. who knows. that place is still another 35-45 minutes away anyway and they only go up to 6 (3-6 cycle) and then you need to transfer on your own accord. so it doesn't have that many good points over the "90 minute commute" school.

at the school, there will be a SN montessori trained teacher to help her and to help the directess better understand her needs too. the school also goes up to 12yo (they are thinking of extending to highschool).

i don't know... hard decision, but i am still leaning towards just going and dealing with the commute (or getting my license).

[BCFD]

Oh, wow...I can totally relate to you! I had my DD enrolled in a school (it was through Head Start) and the first time I ever met the teacher she was so withdrawn and shy and barely said two words to us. I didn't expect it because it was during registration. However, if I were a teacher, I would have totally introduced myself and said something like, "We are so looking forward to having you in our class" (to my DD) and maybe something to me as her mother. But nope, nothing. Then came the orientation in the classroom. All we did was fill out a bunch of forms and let DD play in her new classroom with the kids. This took about an hour and the teacher never once engaged my daughter. In fact, I had to keep telling my DD where everything was located in the classroom (potty, sink, eating area, etc.) and the teacher never even said, "Hi DD, I'm Miss C. I'm going to be your teacher. It's so nice to meet you." or anything of that nature. She never even spoke directly to her. So, then comes the first day of school and I was a nervous wreck (this was DD's first school experience and first time EVER leaving her mommy). I stayed for 2 of the 3 hours, left for the last hour and cried the entire 60 minutes. DD was fine when I returned, but I felt sick leaving her there. The teacher was probably a fine teacher, but didn't seem gentle or loving or engaging at all. It was awful. She never got to day #2.

Then I enrolled her in a play based preschool close to my home. It was perfect - affordable, close, experienced teacher who has run this program for 25 years, 2 half days a week. Seemed really great. The first day of class I left her after about 15 min. and she was traumatized. I later found out the assistant teacher physically hurt her by pushing her fingernails into her belly button and squeezed her arm really hard. I cried for weeks over that. She is no longer employed there.

I spent from October 2007 to February 2008 every day searching for a new preschool and decided that Montessori was where I wanted DD to be. The teachers immediately took her under their wing and it is a very loving and respectful atmosphere. It's AMAZING! It's really expensive, but my DD is extremely sensitive and needs a very loving and quiet environment. I couldn't believe the children in this school were so polite (one little girl also took DD to her work rug and did a job with her) and I just couldn't get over how incredibly focused and quiet they were during their job time. It was truly awe inspiring! This school is a few towns over, but it was worth it to me.

I just wanted to say that I truly understand your situation. I visited 5 Mont schools and thought I was going to have a hard time deciding. Of those 5, 3 of them I wouldn't send my dogs to. Oh, I hope you can find a solution!!! I would say look into a different type of school (Waldorf or Reggio), but knowing what I know about Montessori, I do not blame you for wanting to stick with this school.

It probably helps to obsess about it here, so we're all ears.

[KBecks]

I'm going to repeat that you need to seriously consider the hassle that this is going to bring to your life, whether you drive or not. With driving or transit, in bad weather or if there's an accident your commute will be even longer. I think driving is the only way to go, but even then it's going to be a pain in the rear. I think you should drive it with your husband and time it, a few times, to make sure that drive is 45 minutes and no longer. If you start to push closer to an hour's drive I'd really consider that obstacle.

Also, if you are seriously thinking of moving further away from this school, you've got to really look at that.

I see your concerns about the other schools -- the bullying and rough behavior is 100% unacceptable. I can see letting a child cry a short time and I can see reservations about a 3 year old doing 6 year old materials without knowing or seeing that 3 year old do any work. They may feel that your expectations of her progress are a little unrealistic and want to take it one step at a time with her, and there are tons of math things to do in the 3-6 year old cycle.

In your shoes, I would consider the school you liked that is closer with a year wait and follow up with their admissions person regularly, maybe every 90 days to inquire about openings. People move, etc and you may get a spot mid-year.

[schrocat]

Wow.... that is quite a distance... I used to live in Burwood and I have friends from uni who live in Turramurra so I can definitely picture the distance. I don't remember the train lines anymore but I'm guessing that you might have to switch trains somewhere along the way which would make it interesting with two children in tow.

I personally wouldn't send DS at such a young age to a school that was so far away. An alternative if you really want to do this is to rent out your house and rent an apartment or house up north closer to the school, maybe just a station or two away.

Another complication would possibly be train strikes. It'd be really tough if there was one which would make it hard to get to school.

[mamamelia]

hmmmm, you make a good point. i have thought about bad weather etc and i too am worried. this is sooo hard. see, dh wants to move but i don't want to (we've been talking about moving back up north for a looong time now). i may have my mum move up with us and it should work out then... have to work on that one. but it's still not permanent. need to make a decision in two days. i can't make a moving decision that quick!!!
i would not be travelling in peak hour traffic at all... 11am-1pm is not peak for where i'm going. in the mornings it will be, but dh is going down that way for work regardless. it is just the 90 minute commute in the train that is making me dig my heels in. that just seems like torture with a toddler.
actually, that other school (my other preference) is about 35 minutes driving one way too. that's during non peak hour. in peak hour (i would have to drop her off in the morning as it's way out of dh's work place) it would take me up to 60 minutes one way. then about 30 minutes back. so i'd be driving for 90 minutes return in the morning, and 60-70 minutes return at midday = a total of 150-160 minutes. actually, just did a public transport trip planner and it gave me a total of 90 minutes one way too. geez, i don't even live in the sticks. i just live in a suburb with no train line!!!!!
at the current school, dh can continue to drop her off in the morning even after i get my license as it's close to him and i can pick her up when at midday which means i will be driving for 90 minutes in total as opposed to 160 minutes total.

the person i spoke to at the other school said there they are not only fully booked out for this year entirely, but there is an extremely long waiting list for any places that might be available this year due to a child transfer/move. she said that we can put our names down but to not get our hopes up for this year at all. enrollment forms for 2009 would begin in august 08 and you find out in jan if your child is in for the year. i don't want to risk a wait that long and still not get in for next year, thus being back at square one with nothing to show. that would be crushing and a huge waste of a year. i don't know... what do you think?? i guess with the travel times being nearly similar for public transport and even more for car travel, there is not much to think about!!!
it is inner city and most all inner city montessori parents would be waiting for that school due to distance. i'd say the only reason that the school we are considering has a place available is because it actually is quite far for the average person. it's in the northern suburbs and far out of many parents work place (unless you work up there, but there are not many offices there - they are mostly in the city). we actually jumped the waitlist because you are not offered a place till you meet with the principal which is after your OB. well, i skipped the official OB (which isn't sometime till may as they do not like to do OB's till all the new 3yos are very settled in). we did a tour during the after school care instead. was really pleased with what i saw alone from the children, teachers and principal and do not feel the need to do an official OB. the principal approved our application in the interview and told me that there is one place left for a 3yo only (last spot for this year unless there are transfers) and she will need to sort out some paperwork with the enrollments officer regarding our position on the waitlist, but basically it was ours since both parties were happy with everything. she absolutely loved dd.

yep, pretty bad vibe from the montessori next to me. the owner was uninterested in my opinion of whether or not i believe dd should advance to older materials if she *can* actually use them correctly. it was her center and her rules and a big fat no, basically. yep, the bullying/agressiveness is totally unacceptable!!!!!!

ok, so my only options now are: still attend current school that we love and dd was offerred a place in. probably strongly consider moving up there with mum in tow.. and *definitely* getting my license no if's, and's or but's. it's going to be hard, but i'm sure it will be worth it.

[mamamelia]

Originally Posted by schrocat

Wow.... that is quite a distance... I used to live in Burwood and I have friends from uni who live in Turramurra so I can definitely picture the distance. I don't remember the train lines anymore but I'm guessing that you might have to switch trains somewhere along the way which would make it interesting with two children in tow.

I personally wouldn't send DS at such a young age to a school that was so far away. An alternative if you really want to do this is to rent out your house and rent an apartment or house up north closer to the school, maybe just a station or two away.

Another complication would possibly be train strikes. It'd be really tough if there was one which would make it hard to get to school.

it is pretty crazy isn't it???? that new rail link through macquarie that's supposed to be finished this year might make things easier (reducing the need to switch lines) but i doubt it will decrease the trip by that much. at the current rate i'd have to catch two buses and switch lines at hornsby or do the one hour straight from strathfield to turra. thinking of moving up to hornsby again (selling our place and just renting this time)... about 10 minute drive from turramurra. mum likes hornsby but it's still a big move!!! dh will be working up in ryde, which is not really far from turra so it's ok for him... it's just my trip.

ahhh, burwood!!! i still have memories from burwood park as a kid.

[mamamelia]

Originally Posted by BCFD

Oh, wow...I can totally relate to you! I had my DD enrolled in a school (it was through Head Start) and the first time I ever met the teacher she was so withdrawn and shy and barely said two words to us. I didn't expect it because it was during registration. However, if I were a teacher, I would have totally introduced myself and said something like, "We are so looking forward to having you in our class" (to my DD) and maybe something to me as her mother. But nope, nothing. Then came the orientation in the classroom. All we did was fill out a bunch of forms and let DD play in her new classroom with the kids. This took about an hour and the teacher never once engaged my daughter. In fact, I had to keep telling my DD where everything was located in the classroom (potty, sink, eating area, etc.) and the teacher never even said, "Hi DD, I'm Miss C. I'm going to be your teacher. It's so nice to meet you." or anything of that nature. She never even spoke directly to her. So, then comes the first day of school and I was a nervous wreck (this was DD's first school experience and first time EVER leaving her mommy). I stayed for 2 of the 3 hours, left for the last hour and cried the entire 60 minutes. DD was fine when I returned, but I felt sick leaving her there. The teacher was probably a fine teacher, but didn't seem gentle or loving or engaging at all. It was awful. She never got to day #2.

Then I enrolled her in a play based preschool close to my home. It was perfect - affordable, close, experienced teacher who has run this program for 25 years, 2 half days a week. Seemed really great. The first day of class I left her after about 15 min. and she was traumatized. I later found out the assistant teacher physically hurt her by pushing her fingernails into her belly button and squeezed her arm really hard. I cried for weeks over that. She is no longer employed there.

I spent from October 2007 to February 2008 every day searching for a new preschool and decided that Montessori was where I wanted DD to be. The teachers immediately took her under their wing and it is a very loving and respectful atmosphere. It's AMAZING! It's really expensive, but my DD is extremely sensitive and needs a very loving and quiet environment. I couldn't believe the children in this school were so polite (one little girl also took DD to her work rug and did a job with her) and I just couldn't get over how incredibly focused and quiet they were during their job time. It was truly awe inspiring! This school is a few towns over, but it was worth it to me.

I just wanted to say that I truly understand your situation. I visited 5 Mont schools and thought I was going to have a hard time deciding. Of those 5, 3 of them I wouldn't send my dogs to. Oh, I hope you can find a solution!!! I would say look into a different type of school (Waldorf or Reggio), but knowing what I know about Montessori, I do not blame you for wanting to stick with this school.

It probably helps to obsess about it here, so we're all ears.

mama... i am so sorry for your daughter's experiences!!! how horrible. i read that other thread about your daughter's first day and i'm SO glad to hear that it went well. it's about time she had a good experience after everything that's happened!

[schrocat]

Originally Posted by mamamelia

it is pretty crazy isn't it???? that new rail link through macquarie that's supposed to be finished this year might make things easier (reducing the need to switch lines) but i doubt it will decrease the trip by that much. at the current rate i'd have to catch two buses and switch lines at hornsby or do the one hour straight from strathfield to turra. thinking of moving up to hornsby again (selling our place and just renting this time)... about 10 minute drive from turramurra. mum likes hornsby but it's still a big move!!! dh will be working up in ryde, which is not really far from turra so it's ok for him... it's just my trip.

Moving to Hornsby sounds great. Your DH will be closer to work. You'll be much closer to the montessori you like and eventually your second child can go there too. Your mom likes Hornsby I remember the one hour straight from strathfield to turra... it doesn't run very often so if you miss the train, you'd have to wait for a bit (if memory serves me right). It's also much prettier up North.

[DahliaRW]

If you can't move closer, I would really think this through. I know you like the school and it might be a good fit for your dd, but also, is it fair to make your younger child spend that much time commuting each day?

[KBecks]

In terms of moving, think about how often you will drive to school each week vs. how many times per week you will visit your mom. So if school is 5x a week and you see your mom 2x a week then it's more worth it to be closer to school and make the longer drives fewer times and at times when traffic isn't tough and you have flexibility to change your schedule for weather, etc. etc. etc.

You don't have to move right away but you should try driving. You need to know if driving is suitable for you or if it's going to make you too nervous or stressed.

I would give yourself a deadline like you will move within the first 6 months or whatever, depending on your circumstances, if you own or rent or whatever. Good luck!

I would also see if there are any other parents that make the crazy drive that you could make arrangements with for carpooling.