Bullying & Class Disruption from "out of control" child

[Maude04040106]

Frequent lurker here - looking for some wisdom and support - this is long.

I have two children FT in a wonderful Montessori school. Up to this point we have had absolutely no issues.

My DD is in her first year of preprimary (3-6). In anticipation of her parent / teacher conference this evening I went to observe class yesterday (through a one-way window/mirror). My findings were quite startling.

During a transition time, when children were to be putting away work, washing hands, and going to the line, my DD was physically bullied. And not one of the four teachers/assistants saw the incident. My DD was minding her own business, rolling up her mat, when two other girls approached on each side of DD, placing their feet on her mat so that she could not roll it up. DD asked them to move, they said no, DD tried to push their feet off of her mat, they proceeded to each kick her in the ribs (one on each side of her), DD reaches up and hits one of them, the girl then kicks DD harder. The head teacher then enters the area, on her way to help another child (she does not see the incident), both of the girls jump away from DD and stand on the line approx. two feet away. Once the teacher has left the area, they then return to standing on DD's mat. DD again tries to push their feet off, while demanding that they move. Both girls again kick DD in the ribs, and finally walk off. DD rolls up her mat and goes to sit on the line.

There is a child in her class that has "issues" - lets call him "M". M frequently acts out. M does not participate in class, and can be seen bullying other children. Through discussions w/ other parents I have learned that two students have left the school this year due to how M was treating their children and the lack of support they received from the school to protect their children from M. (Apparently both of these children were "making things up to get attention".) We have known about M's behavior since the beginning of the school year, but M seems to direct most of his anger at other boys. However, starting around December we have heard more and more from our DD about M. i.e. stories of M kicking DD, telling DD he is going to lock her in jail, telling DD he is going to set her on fire, etc.

While observing I was shocked to see how much M acts out and how much time the teachers have to devote to him. M now has a group of followers as well. In the hour and a half that I observed, the lead teacher spent over 30 minutes dealing directly with M. During line time, M was talking and acting out. The teacher had to stop line time for over 15 minutes to try to get M to either leave the area or behave. M was given soooo many warnings and opportunities, I couldn't even count them (the teacher has the patience of a saint!). He was repeatedly told that he was making a choice, and would have to leave the room. The teacher finally told him that if he did not get up that she would have to pick him up to leave the room. M, who had been on the ground screaming at the top of his lungs, then proceeded to hit and kick the lead teacher. All while the other children are sitting patiently waiting to continue with line time.

During line time, the children were skipping and singing on the line, around the room. M suddenly stopped and pushed someone. The whole line of children bumped into each other. DD bumped into the child in front of her, who proceeded to turn around and hit her. DD then burst into tears. One of the assistants took both of them out of line. They were in an area I could not see, so I do not know how the incident was handled.

After finishing line time, the children were dismissed for lunch. My DD walked up to a large table of children, looked at the open seat and then turned around and chose to sit at a table that no one was at (no words spoken to DD during this time). As all of the other children were dismissed, no one chose to sit with DD. DD then proceeded to eat lunch alone. (One of the assistants had to take over at lunch time, as the lead teacher was still dealing with M, who had tried to take another child's lunch, and was back to hitting and kicking the lead teacher.)

Last night my husband and I tried to talk to DD about her day at school. She told us that she had a "good" day. As she is just beginning to be able to articulate what goes on at school, her descriptions are always fairly brief. I asked her who she ate lunch with, and she told me that she ate by herself because her friend E. wasn't at school yesterday, and no one else wanted to be her friend.

DD also told us that during circle time in the afternoon (lead teacher reading a book to the children) that M and one of his friends were trying to kiss her on the back and shoulder, and wouldn't stop until she told the lead teacher. Lead teacher's response was to tell all of the children that "we save our kisses for Mommy and Daddy".

So there is my long observation story. All of these items will be addressed with the lead teacher during conferences tonight (I have already called and extended our time-slot). When I left the school yesterday, I was ready to pull my DD from the class. I still feel pretty strongly about it. I know no school is perfect, but bullying is one thing I will not tolerate. And how can the children be adequately served, when the lead teacher spends all of her time trying to control M?

Any suggestions on how to address this with the teacher and school? What should I be looking for in terms of an adequate response?

[mamamelia]

oh gosh - that is completely unacceptable!!! i would be LIVID! i'm so sorry your daughter is going through this. i hope you get a good enough response tonight at the conference.
i have no advice except that M might have some special needs that need to be addressed. either that, or he is just the product of undesirable parenting. saying things like "i'm going to set you on fire" doesn't scream gentle, calm home environment to me, but that said, i don't have boys and i don't know how many aggressive things boys can say without it actually having much meaning. it sounds like something is up with M and whether it be undiagnosed SN or just his home environment, the current montessori school he is at is not serving him well and in the process is neglecting to serve it's other students well. that's a shame.
my dd has SN and acts up (hey, what 3yo doesn't act up anyway). sometimes a gentle explanation works and everything is well again, sometimes a strict firm NO with no explanation is what works best. she does get a little aggressive with her sister, but nothing intentional (doesn't pick up on social cues well). she is actually quite sweet and if you know how to "deal" with her undesirable behaivour, the outcome is a positive one for both parties. not all kids with SN are mean and aggressive, but a kid with undiagnosed SN can be because obviously no one is helping him appropriately.

anyway...... those two girls kicking your dd is just horrid. no other word. poor darling, just thinking about it is breaking my heart - i can't imagine how you feel.

put it this way, if i would not recieve a good enough response and a dramatic change in the monitoring of the children's behaivour over the next week, i would pull my dd out. simple as that. forget early withdrawal fees and the like, no child should be treated like that.

bullying/aggressive kids is one of the top priorities on my list of things to look for in a school. i actually went to one montessori where it looked like what you are describing (means kids and running rampant, not co-operating). i couldn't get out of there fast enough.

i hope you get an appropriate and satisfying answer tonight. to you and your little girl!

[GuildJenn]

Originally Posted by Maude04040106

So there is my long observation story. All of these items will be addressed with the lead teacher during conferences tonight (I have already called and extended our time-slot). When I left the school yesterday, I was ready to pull my DD from the class. I still feel pretty strongly about it. I know no school is perfect, but bullying is one thing I will not tolerate. And how can the children be adequately served, when the lead teacher spends all of her time trying to control M?

Any suggestions on how to address this with the teacher and school? What should I be looking for in terms of an adequate response?

That's horrible. I am so glad you were there observing.

For the long term I would recommend Barbara Coloroso's book on bullying. You can get a flavour of it here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ixugeBJLjCM&feature=user

The main idea is that they will need to involve everyone - bully, bullied, and the bystanders - to address this issue. I think it can be addressed even with M's needs, but the whole class needs to be involved - they need tools to deal with it.

[KBecks]

The whole bullying in Montessori thing is freaking me out. This is the 2nd account I have heard of a child being bullied in a M school without teachers noticing and I asked our school about it and they didn't have a great answer.

I would do this immediately -- call the school, talk to the teacher, tell her exactly what you saw, with the girls kicking your daughter and then jumping away when she came near and no one saw. Tell the teacher this needs to be addressed immediately and that you basically need your daughter and these girls to be observed and protected. I would request that the school bring in another aide to assist with observation for a week and for any incident they see to be reported back to you. I would tell the teacher that you want to inform the head of school of this issue so he/she knows that there is a bullying issue in the class and so he/she can be involved in helping to solve the problem. Don't blame the teacher right now, but tell them they need to step up observation and protection and that you need detailed observation and reports. Have them tell you what they are going to to to address this and you expect them to address this immediately, even if its' the head of school or another FT staff to get in that class to watch and protect.

See what they say and how seriously they take this and how they work with you. I would not mention the boy right now except that he has said ugly things to your daughter and threatened her. I would not criticize the teacher's time management but let them know what you saw needs to be corrected and responded to immediately.

See what they say. Then see how they handle it. I would let them know clearly that if your daughter is not safe at school then you must withdraw. But I would give them a week or two to work on it. I would expect daily communication and status updates, and I would go back and observe once or twice a month. And they better agree to that and be understanding of your need.

Let us know how it goes, this topic is of great concern to me. Best wishes.

ETA: Talk to your daughter about the bullying and give her tools. I would tell her to yell at the kids -- don't kick me, and to go get the teacher and tell the teacher she was kicked. She needs to be able to confidently communicate to the kids and the teacher. I would role play this with her. I would also tell her to tell the boy, that's not a nice thing to say, and again, go involve the teacher. I would let the teacher know that your daughter will come for help and protection if she has trouble and that she needs the teacher's support FOR HER SAFETY. This needs to be treated as a serious safety issue.
Again, best wishes.

[KBecks]

Oh, and I would have a joint meeting with the teacher and head of school TOMORROW to solidify what they are going to do to protect your daughter. You need the face time so they get the message that this is a high priority and you are putting them on alert.

[wrzos]

No advice really - but very sorry for what your dd is going through, and what you must be feeling right now as well. I too would like to see the response you get, as my neighbor also brought bullying at M school to my attention.

Her dd attends the same school as my son, and recently began pinching her parents. When asked why she came out with a long story about being pinched by some boys in her classroom. When the mother (my neighbor) brought it up with the teacher, she said she hadn't noticed or seen anything.

So, in a nutshell, I'm interested in what responses you get - you directly observed the incident(s) so there will be no doubt, kwim?

I'm not even going to talk about the M student - I can't even imagine they would let him continue in the program. At our school, in the enrollment contract clearly states that a disruptive child will be dismissed....

[MattBronsil]

Simply...

This needs to be addressed. And changes have to happen immediately.

No child should have to have lunch by herself.
No child should be disrespected and kicked.

The teacher's #1 priority is making sure the environment is a safe place.

There are times when teachers do not see things. We are glad (at least I am) when parents address it with me. That way, I can keep a better eye out for them. I can address them with the other parent as I see them happening.

I do not know how his previous actions were handled by the teacher. I hope they were handled well. This may have been one day where they simply did miss that.

Two things you said that really made me cringe from a teacher's perspective:

1) "The teacher had to stop line time for over 15 minutes to try to get M to either leave the area or behave."

Rule #1 towards students at group time: "I say it once ~ that's your warning. I have to say it twice, sorry...it is time to move. Come back when you're ready and we're ready to have you back in the line (this last part is there more so they don't just walk away and come back and say, 'ok...I'm ready') after 5 seconds."

This rule must be followed.

The second thing:

"As all of the other children were dismissed, no one chose to sit with DD. DD then proceeded to eat lunch alone."

This wasn't a matter of a missed observation, like the bullying incident might have been. The rug thing seems like a long time to have missed something so obvious, but I can't judge it since I was not there. However, sitting by yourself at lunch time is something that will be obvious.

I feel sad about this one. You mentioned the assistant was taking over monitoring lunch. Is she new? Sometimes assitants want to learn more, but just are inexperienced. They need to be told to watch out for these things. I hope that was a minor case of something along those lines.

As far as the other child is concerned ("M"), let me at least say these things:

--There may be a medical reason involved in this that makes it very, VERY hard (even impossible) for him to control himself. That does not mean we accept it and let it happen. the behavior must be addressed immediately every time. He *might* be on medication for this and they are trying out different doses and he's especially difficult at this time. I had one student that described that feeling perfectly (one of the few I really think needed medication). He said, "When I don't take my medicine, it is like my brain feels like alphabet soup and I can't understand the writing." That's from a 6 year old. Imagine living with that on a daily basis.

--That being said, his reasons for these behaviors are not your concern. What is your concern is your daughter and the actions towards her. I say that bluntly because I have had parents ask what is wrong with other students. A teacher should have the rule that they will only discuss your child with you. Also, be careful about talking to other parents about the child. This is unfair to him. At least be careful not to categorize him as the bad child while the rest of them are good. His actions may not be good, but he is still a member of that classroom and should be treated with full dignity. (My personal commentary, at least).

--Bring out some positive for your daughter. There are going to be people who treat us terribly in our life. What can you teach your daughter at this time about how to deal with people like that? I'm not putting any blame on your daughter with that question. I think she handled it well. I'm just trying to say to brainstorm with her and think of other solutions so she becomes more empowered in those situations.

Being a ventriloquist, I have met many interesting and wonderful people. One person is a lady by the name of Val Hilliker. She is a Canadian Ventriloquist who does programs about bullying and strategies to stop it. I will e-mail her and ask her to take a look at this thread and offer suggestions. I know she is fairly busy, but I hope she is able to find the time.

I would say talk to your teacher about this. After that, you have to consider what option is best for your daughter. It would be wonderful if she could stay in the school and things get better. At the same time, it is important to make sure she is safe.

Ultimately, remember that things can happen very quickly without a teacher seeing it. It sounds like they saw a lot of his behaviors (you mentioned they spent so much of their time with him). Similar things can happen at home. If you're eating, you stand up to go into the refrigerator, and your kid throws peas against the wall. You turn around and they're done doing it. You can't be blamed for missing that. (Weird scenario...there is a story behind it. LOL)

This is more critical than throwing peas against the wall, but the same idea applies. The hard part is determining when it crosses the line into something that SHOULD be noticed. Maybe a person sitting and observing during observation time is all that is needed to stop this, as occurances may heighten at that time. I don't want to make specific suggestions like that. I don't know their program and am not invited to give an opinion by them. I'm just saying that sometimes those small things, noticing when things happen and deciding on a course of action for that time frame, sometimes make all the difference in the world.

Matt

[BCFD]

Matt, again, I have to say that I really appreciate your insight and advice!! I have to agree about the lunch situation. I noticed in my DD's school that they all sit at the same table. In DD's classroom there are only 7 children and they can all fit at one table. In the other pre-primary classroom I believe they have two tables pulled together, but I remember being there during lunch time (when we were registering her) and saw all the kids sitting together at one table. I don't remember seeing all 24 kids at the table as some may have been finished and were preparing for rest time.

I think any teacher that doesn't notice that needs to be re-trained!!!

[MattBronsil]

Even the simple act, if there are a lot of tables, of making sure there is only 1 seat per child. It is also important to monitor the children sitting down. A child will often try to save a place for another child. This should be stopped immediately. They don't do it to exclude anyone else necessarily...they're doing it because they really like another friend and want them to sit next to them. They just do not think how the person feels that wants to sit there, but is told "no."

On a slightly different note, I got a response back from Val Hilliker:
__________________________________________________

Hi my friend. You have taken a courageous step by not ignoring what is going on. What I see from this briefing is that you would like to see restorative justice. I teach The Virtues Project through my ventriloquist shows. The Virtues Project is not an anti bullying program but the antidote to bullying. It is a positive proactive approach to Character Education.



I see purposefulness in your email and you see patients in the teacher. Purposefulness and patients are both virtue words and there are 50 more virtue words in The Virtues Project family guide.



When one child acts out like this it effects the whole class room by instilling fear among other things. Everyone suffers. The way I see this is that DD, M and everyone in the class needs to see some clear boundaries around the classroom. Like courtesy, kindness, friendliness, respect, self-discipline, peacefulness, cooperation and helpfulness. That is just a beginning. There is something deeper that also needs to be addressed and that is what is going on in M’s life that causes M to act this way. M needs help in a quick way. M’s behaviour suggests horrid things may be going on his life and I see that compassion can be called upon here.



It is imperative that something happens immediately to start the healing process. Please check out The Virtues Project at www.virtuesproject.com

You could contact someone in your area from The Virtues Project web address, for help or contact me directly at [e-mail]

I do have some helpful ideas on assertiveness on my web site and that is a good start to what I see as being needed for DD.

Thank you for your truthfulness, I honor that.

Val Hilliker Comedy Ventriloquist

[mattemma04]

I am so sorry to read what your dd went through.I do hope the teachers will work with the children to make them understand this sort of behavoir is not acceptable.

I have a 5yo that recently started at a M school. I pulled him out of the local ps due to bully that was not dealt with. At the M school my ds has been having problems with one boy.I did notice this boy hit another during observation(teacher did not see) with a book.I also saw him pushing other kids in line during dismissal.I had hoped it was an isolated incident,but unfortunately he is bothering my son(and other children) often.He pushes,and hits,and ds said he called another boy stupid.

I am trying to be patient.Working with ds to says things to the boy and tell the teacher whenever he is bothered.He is saying stop,but that does not deter the boy.And unfortunately he does not tell the teacher.He tells me when I pick him up,and then I contact the school to let them know.I wish he would tell right away instead of telling only me.

I am suprised at what your dd is going through. I know no child is perfect,but I guess I had this idea that in Montessori when a child does something bad to another the teacher gets them together to discuss the situation,and then it does not happen again.You know-learn from your mistakes.

Instead it just seems like kids deny doing something when asked,promise to be good,and then are more careful not to get caught.In ds's case(in the past) it got to the point where he stopped telling,because it would just happen again the next day. I am afraid he will clam up again an put up with being hurt by others.

I hope your dd has a better outcome than I suspect mine will.I don't think the boy bothering my ds will stop.He will just keep doing things to other kids when the teacher can't see or hear. I just mentioned an incident the other day so if it continues I will ask to meet with the head lady to see what she has to say. If ds has to put up with this pushing,hitting,and name-calling for much longer I suppose I will have to pull him.I don't want too,but it is not ok to keep him there if the other kid can freely walk around hurting the other kids.I was told kids like that are asked to leave the school(as a final step),but for whatever reason this boy is tolerated.Best wishes for your dd!

[Maude04040106]

Thank You

Thank you all for reading my lengthy post, and responding in such a positive way. It definitely validates my thoughts on not only the direct bullying, but also the classroom dynamics.

DH and I met w/ the lead teacher of DD's class yesterday. She was completely unaware of the 2-on-1 kicking incident; and seemed to genuinely be concerned that the incident was not observed by any of the four staff in the room at the time. She claims to not know of any on-going issues between DD and the two girls that ganged up on her.

In regards to DD eating lunch by herself - one of the assistants went to her and asked her if she would like to move to another table with the other children - DD declined. This directly shows that the bullying that took place has affected DD enough that she is isolating herself from her peers, so as to not have additional confrontation. This is extremely troubling to me.

In terms of "M" - she acknowledged that he, and some of his classmates are having behavioral issues that are significant enough to warrant (1) an additional assistant in the class, (2) consultation with a behavioral specialist and (3) daily communication with parents. However, these steps have been in place for some time now.

DH and I specifically expressed that the amount of time that the lead teacher is taking with "M" is detracting from the rest of the class. The response that another assistant was hired to alleviate this problem, is in my opinion, not acceptable. The assistant teachers are extremely qualified, 3 with full certification, however, to any child in the class, the lead teacher is to whom they most look for direction. Adding an assistant for the general class should not be the answer - adding an assistant for the child that needs extra assistance, so that the lead teacher is available for the class, seems more reasonable.

DD's teacher requested that we observe again next week, and allow her and the staff time to strategize together and that she and I have a follow-up discussion next week. While I feel that the lead teacher is taking appropriate steps (after all, she needs time to process what I told her yesterday) - I have scheduled an appointment to meet with the school Director on Monday.

The overall classroom is not harmonious. There is too much chaos, and the children are learning behaviors that are not acceptable.

[Flor]

the incident with the rug seems so long and "big" I'm trying to imagine a classroom set up where the teachere couldn't see this!!!

It is so unacceptable, I'm surprised you didn't break through the observation glass!

I'm really interested to hear how it is handled.

Do you work? If they say it was an isolated incident, I'd observe,observe, observe. Please make a bid deal out of this.

[Maude04040106]

Yes, both my DH and I WOH FT. This makes the situation even more difficult as it is hard to find the time to observe, and it will be even harder to pull DD from the school and find an adequate alternative for both DD and DS.

I'm sure that my lengthy description of the rug incident makes it seem like it was a five minute episode, but in reality, it all occurred relatively quickly. And let me tell you, it took every ounce of my being not to storm into the classroom, hug my DD, and reprimand the other girls. (Instead I picked up my cell phone and called DH - giving him the brunt of my anger.)

[mamamelia]

I'm sure that my lengthy description of the rug incident makes it seem like it was a five minute episode, but in reality, it all occurred relatively quickly. And let me tell you, it took every ounce of my being not to storm into the classroom, hug my DD, and reprimand the other girls. (Instead I picked up my cell phone and called DH - giving him the brunt of my anger.)

again mama. i think you've taken the appropriate steps in meeting up with the school director on monday. i agree with the previous post - make a big deal out of this!

[tinasquirrel]

Mama. It sounds like the meeting went well and the Lead Teacher is trying to take appropriate action and to listen to your concerns. I hope it works out in a positive way for both your DD and the rest of the class.

I felt so sad when I read your story of the two girls bullying your DD. That does not sound like an isolated incident to me. It seems too coordinated on the part of the two girls, and they obviously knew enough to be watching out for the teachers and quickly stopping the behavior when the teacher may have seen. It makes you wonder what could be happening on the playground, or elsewhere where the supervision isn't as close as the classroom.

Hopefully the next observation goes better.

[KBecks]

Originally Posted by tinasquirrel

: That does not sound like an isolated incident to me. It seems too coordinated on the part of the two girls, and they obviously knew enough to be watching out for the teachers and quickly stopping the behavior when the teacher may have seen. It makes you wonder what could be happening on the playground, or elsewhere where the supervision isn't as close as the classroom.

Yes, that's exactly it, and that's why the teachers should be stepping up their observation of these two girls immediately.

I don't think this is a small problem at all. The classroom dynamic is not good if at least three children are bullying and acting aggressively towards other children. So they need to really look at making changes to identify, correct and ultimately prevent this type of behavior in the future.