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Whole Foods/TF(like) Veg*ns - Page 2

post #21 of 151
Quote:
Originally Posted by magstphil View Post
I thiiiiink on the TF forum someone said something about the Swiss.
That was probably because once upon a time, some mountain-dwelling Swiss villagers had a very long lifespan and it was presumably due to their consumption of pastured meat and raw dairy. There is and was absolutely nothing plant-based about the Swiss diet...trust me. Sigh.

The meat is still pastured and a lot of the cheese is still raw but they chug UHT milk by the liter and have started down the path of the SAD diet influence.

This is an interesting thread! We eat a lot of raw at home, and the grains we do eat are always soaked, and we also do eggs and a bit of raw cheese. I feel good eating like this, as long as I pay attention to proper food combining. It makes ALL the difference.
post #22 of 151

Info Needes Please.

I need someone to explain to me why organic whole grains used in home baking are not healthy?
post #23 of 151
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by firefaery View Post
you DON'T need Fallon's book. Go for Full Moon Feast for a non preachy approach. it still has meat, but not anywhere near what NT has. It's far more spiritual too.
I LOOOOVE this book. I finished it within days of getting it (just a few days ago, actually) but she doesn't go enough into the "how to"s, ykwim?

But seriously everyone must get Full Moon Feasts. I just finished it and I'm going to read it again.

ETA- the author does talk about how her vegetarianism made her unhealthy but I was expecting more. Her srgument is weak. Basically her veg*nism made her so sick because she didn't eat enough fat. She even says she was afraid of fat and all that. If she still would have refrined from meat and tried adding more fats maybe more whole animal products she probably ould have been fine. But who knows. Everyone is different. My point is I don't think her problem was refraining from meat at all.
Also when she does talk about omnivorism vs. veg*nism she only talks on the Animal Rights/spiritual side not the health side which is what I wanted to see. I know it's taboo here but I actually agree with her on the AR/spiritual side. :
The thing that popped into my mind while reading it was even if traditional people's ate meat (which I'm sure they did) they didn't do it to the extent that modern society and people like Fallon are suggesting. In most areas there just wasn't enough meat, ykwim? It just isn't logical, IMO. So where I do believe traditional people's ate meat and thrived I don't believe they ate it for every meal every day (excepting in the winter, maybe). I think that eating it that way is a major problem whereas eating it maybe once a day or once every other day or what have you makes much more sense in the traditional sense and health wise. But that's just what I gather. And I have to point out that this is natural meat not the processed factory farmed crap.
post #24 of 151
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by calynde View Post
That was probably because once upon a time, some mountain-dwelling Swiss villagers had a very long lifespan and it was presumably due to their consumption of pastured meat and raw dairy. There is and was absolutely nothing plant-based about the Swiss diet...trust me. Sigh.

The meat is still pastured and a lot of the cheese is still raw but they chug UHT milk by the liter and have started down the path of the SAD diet influence.

This is an interesting thread! We eat a lot of raw at home, and the grains we do eat are always soaked, and we also do eggs and a bit of raw cheese. I feel good eating like this, as long as I pay attention to proper food combining. It makes ALL the difference.
Actually someone brought it up because from what WAP said in his book they didn't eat a lot of meat but instead a lot of dairy and grains. I haven't read his book so I don't know but in Full Moon Feasts from what the author said it sounds like that was the case in WAP work.
post #25 of 151
Ok, so to prove my point to myself that this is the way I need to be eating; last night I ate greasy Chinese food at my mom's and have had the worst stomach since. I think I need to print out the op's post and keep it with me at all times.
BTW, I beleive the author of FMF is a member of my CSA. I remember them writing about it in our weekly newsletter when the book came out. Unfortunately, they don't have it at my library.
post #26 of 151
I can't get past this article enough to in any way ally myself with "traditional foods." http://www.westonaprice.org/farming/wasteland.html
post #27 of 151
Thread Starter 
you take the good and leave the rest. WAP doesn't hold the monopoly on traditional foods, ykwim?
post #28 of 151
Quote:
Originally Posted by catnip View Post
I can't get past this article enough to in any way ally myself with "traditional foods." http://www.westonaprice.org/farming/wasteland.html
traditional foods are simply foods that traditional peoples consumed. WAP is just a person that studied them and has little to nothing to do with WAPF. He was not a part of the organization, nor was he alive when it was formed.

Whether or not he existed or studied them there were ways people lived and ate. That is all I think of when I think TF. Real food, from the earth.
post #29 of 151
Quote:
Originally Posted by catnip View Post
I can't get past this article enough to in any way ally myself with "traditional foods." http://www.westonaprice.org/farming/wasteland.html
I refuse to even read anything from that website these days. There is just so much written there that makes me and I won't subject myself to it anymore. I get the feeling that the WAPF has its own agenda which isn't necessarily what TF is really all about.
post #30 of 151
Quote:
Originally Posted by magstphil View Post
The thing that popped into my mind while reading it was even if traditional people's ate meat (which I'm sure they did) they didn't do it to the extent that modern society and people like Fallon are suggesting. In most areas there just wasn't enough meat, ykwim? It just isn't logical, IMO. So where I do believe traditional people's ate meat and thrived I don't believe they ate it for every meal every day (excepting in the winter, maybe). I think that eating it that way is a major problem whereas eating it maybe once a day or once every other day or what have you makes much more sense in the traditional sense and health wise. But that's just what I gather. And I have to point out that this is natural meat not the processed factory farmed crap.
I think you're right that most people did not eat very much meat, especially in parts of the world where there is/was an abundance of plants to eat. There were, of course, certain groups of people who ate only meat or other animal products, too. I think that people can thrive on a wide range of diets, and that's good news for those of us who don't want to eat meat - it isn't totally necessary, as some people would like to have us believe (Fallon, etc.).
post #31 of 151
I am so glad you started this thread. I had been thinking about a "Curing Cavities with Vegan Nutrition" thread. I still think I should! I believe it can be done with vegan foods just as effectively. I remember hearing about how acidic foods like tomato or orange juice open the pores in teeth so eating them with spinach and other calcium rich vegetables or veggie broths is totally vibing with me right now. My mind has been on our earth and in my mind I see her as this huge pregnant mother who is trying to hang in there. All the while these humans keep raping her and digging her guts out all the while. I know that may sound extreme and I guess it is. But, at this point the only diet that would do the least harm to her and the one that is totally doable to be completely nutritious with our technology and knowledge is a vegan diet. As I write this I feel disgusted thinking about how mining is going on this very second and not to mention the oil being pumped out and other ways we are polluting and making her sick. I want to scream and tell people to quit. I can't do that but I can do my part to ease her strain in every way I can. I believe vegan as a really huge way to do that. So, my mind has also been on ways to heal the body including the teeth with a totally vegan diet. I believe it can be done. Seriously if you can get as much calcium from broccolli as you can from the milk then what gives??? Whenever I am thinking of anything I think of bringing it down to the most simple answer. Which one makes most sense? Who was the milk intended for in the first place? Which one uses the least amount of resources to procure? Etc? Vegan just makes sense to me more than ever now.
post #32 of 151
Quote:
Originally Posted by catnip View Post
I can't get past this article enough to in any way ally myself with "traditional foods." http://www.westonaprice.org/farming/wasteland.html
Is this article supposed to be a joke? I am so glad you posted this because a few weeks ago I was really hoping I was taking my family down the right path nutritionally. Now I am fully assured that I am. This article is complete garbage brainwashing and reminds me of some sort of cultish pamphlet. Organic farming is not responsible for any of this garbage this guy wrote about. All I can say is WOW!
post #33 of 151
Quote:
Originally Posted by calynde View Post
That was probably because once upon a time, some mountain-dwelling Swiss villagers had a very long lifespan and it was presumably due to their consumption of pastured meat and raw dairy. There is and was absolutely nothing plant-based about the Swiss diet...trust me. Sigh
According to the "Isolated and modernized Swiss" chapter in Nutrition and Physical Degeneration,

"
The nutrition of the people of the Loetschental Valley, particularly that of the growing boys and girls, consists largely of a slice of whole rye bread and a piece of the summer-made cheese (about as large as the slice of bread), which are eaten with fresh milk of goats or cows. Meat is eaten about once a week."

This fact is repeated several times in the chapter.
post #34 of 151
Quote:
Originally Posted by magstphil View Post
The thing that popped into my mind while reading it was even if traditional people's ate meat (which I'm sure they did) they didn't do it to the extent that modern society and people like Fallon are suggesting. In most areas there just wasn't enough meat, ykwim? It just isn't logical, IMO. So where I do believe traditional people's ate meat and thrived I don't believe they ate it for every meal every day (excepting in the winter, maybe).
Yes, the current modern American diet over-emphasizes muscle meat. In Nutrition and Physical Degeneration, the healthiest people ate seafood and animal organs. Some Native American tribes left the muscle meats for the dogs:

"
I found the Indians putting great emphasis upon the eating of the organs of the animals, including the wall of parts of the digestive tract. Much of the muscle meat of the animals was fed to the dogs."

From Chapter 15,
"Characteristics of primitive and modernized dietaries."

Of course they consumed the whole animal, leaving nothing to waste, but that's a different diet than the average American one where people consume mostly muscle meats.
post #35 of 151
TinyBabyBean, I'm right there with you. I feel like a vegan diet makes the most sense for me, too. I know other people feel differently, and I respect that, but I feel that cow's milk is for baby cows and goat's milk is for baby goats. It just doesn't make sense to me that we should take their milk for ourselves when we can get our nutrition from other sources.

And I also agree about the issue of resources which is why I can't get behind this idea that all people *need* to eat meat or other animal products, especially in the amounts I've seen recommend by the WAPF. I mean, if all six billion people on earth ate that way, what would happen? How would that even be possible much less sustainable? I've said before that the only animal product I could see myself consuming in the future is eggs, but I'm still on the fence about that even. I know it's not exactly traditional to take a B12 supplement, but I'm not very happy about the alternative, either.

On the other hand, I can see how certain groups of people who live in parts of the world where plant foods are not in abundance would need to consume meat and other animal products, so I'm not saying that everyone should be vegan or even vegetarian. I've been thinking about what is locally available for me to eat (well, right now I'm on Long Island, and I'm not sure what we have locally around here since I'm new to the area - but we're moving back to Texas soon so that's where I'm thinking about what's available "locally") and I think it's totally possible for me to eat a vegan diet and not be importing my food from all over the world. I think it's so important to find what makes sense to you and your own circumstances and go from there.
post #36 of 151
Quote:
Originally Posted by TinyBabyBean View Post
Seriously if you can get as much calcium from broccolli as you can from the milk then what gives???
Well, the reason why calcium from WHOLE raw milk is so bioavailable is because of the cream. There's a lot of nutrients in veggies, but your body can only absorb them if you consume enough fat with them. Little or no fat = little or no mineral absorption, and that includes calcium from low and non-fat milk.
post #37 of 151
Quote:
Originally Posted by lemongrass View Post
On the other hand, I can see how certain groups of people who live in parts of the world where plant foods are not in abundance would need to consume meat and other animal products, so I'm not saying that everyone should be vegan or even vegetarian. I've been thinking about what is locally available for me to eat (well, right now I'm on Long Island, and I'm not sure what we have locally around here since I'm new to the area - but we're moving back to Texas soon so that's where I'm thinking about what's available "locally") and I think it's totally possible for me to eat a vegan diet and not be importing my food from all over the world. I think it's so important to find what makes sense to you and your own circumstances and go from there.
I think eating locally is the best thing too, although if the soil is not that great, then people's health suffers. That's one of the biggest points that Weston Price makes in NAPD. We are intimately connected to the earth.
post #38 of 151
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chicharronita View Post
I think eating locally is the best thing too, although if the soil is not that great, then people's health suffers. That's one of the biggest points that Weston Price makes in NAPD. We are intimately connected to the earth.
How can you know how good the soil is, though?
post #39 of 151
Quote:
Originally Posted by lemongrass View Post
How can you know how good the soil is, though?
A lot of TF people are into using hand-held Brix meters to measure mineral content in fruits, veggies, and milk. Yes, it does only measure sugar content, but it's one way to see if the produce has a lot of minerals. See:

"What is Brix?"
post #40 of 151
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chicharronita View Post
A lot of TF people are into using hand-held Brix meters to measure mineral content in fruits, veggies, and milk. Yes, it does only measure sugar content, but it's one way to see if the produce has a lot of minerals. See:

"What is Brix?"
Wow, that's interesting. I noticed their online store is under construction, do you know how much one of those things costs?
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