Almost 4 y/o not going #2

[Phoenix~Mama]

Hello! I am not sure if this should go here or in Blended Families... I'll try here first.

My DSD is 3 and a half, will be 4 in July. She was potty trained for a full year. In December she decided that she could no longer go #2 at her Dad and I's house.

She was very adamant in saying that she could only use the toilet at her Mom's house to do this. We had a long talk about how lucky she is that she has two homes, and that both places are her home and she can go wherever she needs to go.

We also got her, her own special toilet in hopes this would help.

She still refuses to go, and no matter how many times we bring her to the toilet to try, she ends up going in her pants later.

We have tried all sorts of avenues and we just don't know what else to do.

Help!

[nancy926]

I have not BTDT with my kids, so these are only thoughts off the top of my head....

This sounds like a control issue. She may feel like lots of things in her life are not in her control, so she's controlling where she can do #2. Making up rules like this is a way of trying to bring some order to the world.

Now that you have talked to her about it, I would leave it alone. Clean up the mess when it happens, matter of factly. Give her choices as much as you can in other areas, such as what to have for lunch, what to do for fun, which pajamas to wear, etc.

I hope that helps, and that you get more responses!

[Phoenix~Mama]

Thanks! I sort of feel it may be a control issue too.

She actually cleans up her own mess... she generally goes in her pants when we are sleeping, and we will wake up in the morning to find a pair of panties hanging to dry on the sink, and the little one in new PJs.

She is very smart, and obviously knows she doesn't want to be in soiled pants...

She does get to choose her own clothes, and what to play with. She even has choice in what to eat a lot of times...

[abi&ben'smom]

My dd was a stool holder at that age. From about ages 2-4 she just did not want to let the poop out. She would hold it and hold it and eventually a tiny bit would slip out, but definately not as much as she was eating. And then a few times it would get so big and it would shoot out of her! (One time in the bath, and twice in the potty.) These poops were soooooooo big is was unbelievable. Like a sumo wrestlers poop. I don't even know how it got out of her! (And she said it didn't hurt!) From what I've read about it, when they hold it for so long they start to lose the right sensations to "know" how to go, because it gets so stretched out. One of the last times that she had one of those big poops, I asked her if it felt better to let it out or hold it in. She said to let it out (we could tell it really hurt her to hold it in!). So then the next time she need to go, I reminded her of how she told me that it didn't hurt to let it out. And for some reason, she never held it again. (Also, we were on vacation and I think she wanted to try out every potty in the city!) And now she is 6 and poops all the time!
But one of the reasons that I had to respond was that my dd is very controlling!!! She only wants to do something if it was her idea and not yours. I don't know if that is why she was doing that, or if it's just a thing some kids do. I think I would just let her be, and she will eventually stop on her own.

[Phoenix~Mama]

lol

I hope so.

Part of that sounds like my DSD. She will complain that her butt hurts and we all (me, DP, DSD's Mom and Mom's BF) have tried explaining to her that her butt will feel better if she just goes. And she does say that it does feel better...

Wish the light bulb would click soon.

[Tigerchild]

If she's taking care of it (even cleaning up after herself!!!) then to be honest, I would leave her alone.

She may not feel "lucky" to have two homes, she may have a lot of conflicting emotions that she's not sharing, and she may very well have a hard time going outside of where she feels her primary home is. Lots of people have that feeling.

I would just thank her for being responsible and taking care of it, commisserate with how it must be kind of hard sometimes having two places to live (YOU may interpret that as all good, maybe it's not so great for her--I know having two homes would stress me out, I just don't swing that way.), and that lots of people have a hard time "loosening up", so she shouldn't feel bad or ashamed.

And then let it go. She's only 4. She's showing a remarkable amount of responsibility by cleaning up after herself. Don't nag her or do anything that might (intentionally or not) feel bad. Give her time. You're not having to scrub out poopy underwear, she is. So relax, maybe in time she'll be able to as well. But this is totally one hundred percent out of your control and she's not being obnoxious to you. So I'd count it as a blessing.

[littleaugustbaby]

I agree with the others -- it sounds like a control issue. I have a nephew who poops his pants every time his parents leave him somewhere (school, our house, etc.).

Having two homes might be difficult on her, even if everyone gets along and the transition is smooth. It sounds like you are doing everything right - assuring her that she is lucky to have two homes, and that she should be comfortable, etc.

Also keep in mind that potty regression is very normal. Has anything traumatic happened recently? What is the situation like at her mom's house? Are there any new siblings? Did anyone move recently, or did she start preschool, or a new routine?

I think at this point, the best thing that you can do is just love her through it, and it sounds like that's what you're doing. She will outgrow it eventually.

[WuWei]

Could Alexandra have more control over when/if she visits with you all? Are there other ways in which you all could visit which did not lead to this level of stress?

Pat

[Flor]

Originally Posted by Tigerchild

If she's taking care of it (even cleaning up after herself!!!) then to be honest, I would leave her alone.



.

Same here. And maybe not read so much into it. Ds says he will never go poop at school (and so far, for 2 years, he hasn't. He makes a beeline for hte toilet when he comes home). Dh will make me drive home from a store so he can use his own toilet. I find 4 year olds to be exceptionally controlling, and a lot of them seem to have some issue with potties, so if it isn't causing a problem for her, I'd let it go for a while. Kids change soooo much at that age.

[Phoenix~Mama]

Well... now she has gone into major regression... she did not want to use the toilet at all this past weekend and starting peeing in her pants as well.


As for Alex deciding or having more say in the visitation, I don't think that would work. She is very much in a Mommy stage at the moment and doesn't really care about going to see Daddy and me. She usually asks to go to her Mom's a lot during the weekend. I'm sorry, but I don't think it would be fair to cut visitation with her Dad just because. He is a good Father. We are (I hope) good parents.

We take Alex places, and do things with her, and visit other family members.

I know having two homes is not ideal... but everything I have researched on "split" homes is to assure the child that they are lucky to have double the love, to focus on all the positive to hopefully help them. This is what all the parents in her life have decided on together.

[littleaugustbaby]

Originally Posted by JSMa

As for Alex deciding or having more say in the visitation, I don't think that would work. She is very much in a Mommy stage at the moment and doesn't really care about going to see Daddy and me. She usually asks to go to her Mom's a lot during the weekend. I'm sorry, but I don't think it would be fair to cut visitation with her Dad just because. He is a good Father. We are (I hope) good parents.

We take Alex places, and do things with her, and visit other family members.

I know having two homes is not ideal... but everything I have researched on "split" homes is to assure the child that they are lucky to have double the love, to focus on all the positive to hopefully help them. This is what all the parents in her life have decided on together.

You mention being fair, but fair to who?

This may not be the popular answer, but I'd consider letting her spend more time with her mom right now, even if it means seeing less of her. The potty regression, and the constantly asking to be with her mom are her way of telling you that she's in emotional distress right now. It also doesn't mean that your DH isn't an excellent father, or that you don't do things with her. But right now, emotionally and developmentally, it seems like she just needs her mama more.

I think in your shoes, I'd give her that time that she needs, and work out some kind of temporary modifed schedule to accomodate her needs, if at all possible. You can spend all the quality time in the world with her, but if she is upset, or afraid, or resentful of it, then it won't mean much, and I think that in the long run, it can lead to worse problems than potty regression.

I really believe that it's extremely important to respect our kids wishes and feelings, and to take them as much into consideration as our own.

Instead of having her spend the weekend at your house, maybe have her come over all day Saturday, and then take her home so that she can sleep at her mom's house. Then pick her up on Sunday and do the same. Yes, it's more inconvenient, and it requires a lot more planning and driving around, but I think it reinforces to her that she has two safe, loving homes to go to. I think that at this point, making her stay at your house when she is uncomfortable is going to have the opposite effect, and she will end up feeling like Daddy's house is not a safe place for her.

[Flor]

I think it is actually quite stressful to put a small child in a postition of control over visitation. I think it is one of those things like bedtimes, going to school, etc. that parents decide. We found that when dss did have some say in going home early or cancelling visitation with mom, he was more stressed out because then he was hurting his mom's feelings, or worried about who was mad at him. When it was more "that's just the way it is" he seemed to adjust to it better. I'm sorry she's having a hard time right now. Hopefully you will get to the bottom of it. Sometimes it is the littlest things that throw kids off. Remember that even in intact families kids go through things like this. It is always hard for me to distringuish between blended family issues and developmental issues. My ds (who lives with both parents, not blended) has gone through weird potty things even a year or more into potty learning.

[Phoenix~Mama]

It wouldn't be fair to my DP to cut his time with his daughter. I fully support respecting children and their emotions... but to cut down his visitation to only a few hours a week is simply not going to happen. He is already terribly upset that he does not get to see her much.

We have her 3 hours Tuesday and Thursday nights, then every other weekend. That means she is spending a total of 4 nights a month overnight with us.

I just don't understand why she would not be comfortable around her own Father.

My DP would never ever agree to cutting his time to even less.

[WuWei]

I am reminded of how we were compelled to sit at the dinner table (and vacations, "fun" on weekends, etc.) for (forced) family time. We resented it. Nobody got what they wanted.

I want our family time to be joyful! In our family, we enjoy our time together in environments which are agreeable to everyone. We don't make our son "connect" with us. That has a lot of negative potential, imo, especially for a girl to learn that 'love is when someone (a man) forces you to do something, even when you don't want to'. That was how it was in my family of origin. Now we are estranged. And I choose not to see my father. He still thinks he can *force* us to be family, on his terms, and we are 40 year old adult "children".

Could you all create more opportunities which are engaging and relaxed? Perhaps, going out for ice cream, running to the library together, running errands, going to museums... *Nurture* connection. Love can not be forced. I understand your husband is sad at the loss of his image of what a father-daughter relationship "should" be. He is the adult and the child's emotional well being is developing perceptions of how we "should" be treated. I'd be much more concerned about my child's welfare, than my own "upset that he does not get to see her much".

I highly recommend family counseling.



Pat

[littleaugustbaby]

Originally Posted by JSMa

I just don't understand why she would not be comfortable around her own Father.

It's totally normal, and most likely has nothing to do with him. A lot of young kids go through phases where they are just more attached to one parent or another. I'm sure he is a wonderful, loving dad (if he weren't, then I don't think he'd be worried about this!). But for some reason or another, she wants her mom more right now. This happens all the time, even with kids who's parents are partnered and living together.

[littleaugustbaby]

Originally Posted by WuWei

I am reminded of how we were compelled to sit at the dinner table (and vacations, "fun" on weekends, etc.) for (forced) family time. We resented it. Nobody got what they wanted.

I want our family time to be joyful! In our family, we enjoy our time together in environments which are agreeable to everyone. We don't make our son "connect" with us. That has a lot of negative potential, imo, especially for a girl to learn that 'love is when someone (a man) forces you to do something, even when you don't want to'. That was how it was in my family of origin. Now we are estranged. And I choose not to see my father. He still thinks he can *force* us to be family, on his terms, and we are 40 year old adult "children".

ITA. That really resonated with me, especially the bolded part.