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reduction??? - Page 2

post #21 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chantelhayes View Post
A women here in the DFW area just gave birth to quads at 29 weeks and they are doing FANTASTIC! I would hedge a bet she wasn't following Dr. Luke's recommendations, either. All four babies are now in the step down NICU at 6 weeks old, all breathing room air, and 3 are on full bottle feeding. I think the heaviest babe is up to 5 pounds. It's a wonderful success story. Of course, there is no guarantee that your sister will have such a wonderful outcome, but it IS possible.

ETA: Oh, and she's at least partially breastfeeding them because she talks about pumping for them on her blog.
It's wayyy too early to say if this will be a good outcome or not. Preemies are strange creatures! I hope everything turns out for the best though. My girls are former 29-weekers who are now 2 and I'm just now thinking that we have beaten the prematurity beast. Only time (and school-age activities) will tell!
post #22 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by wendyjoe View Post
It's wayyy too early to say if this will be a good outcome or not. Preemies are strange creatures! I hope everything turns out for the best though. My girls are former 29-weekers who are now 2 and I'm just now thinking that we have beaten the prematurity beast. Only time (and school-age activities) will tell!
Sorry, I didn't mean to imply that they were out of the woods, just that everything was looking good for them and that not every higher order multiple pregnancy is going to end up with dead babies.
post #23 of 46
Threads like this make me so sad. It's weird... and medical technology helps us so much sometimes and then the same technology -- whether vaccines, antibiotics, infertility treatments -- can hurt us so much.

Humans weren't meant to deliver large order multiples and that fact alone would make me seriously unlikely to go for a high-order (and specifically, I mean more than triplets) pregnancy. I tend to think that way though, i.e., look at what we were meant to do from an evolutionary perspective.
post #24 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by Periwinkle View Post
Humans weren't meant to deliver large order multiples and that fact alone would make me seriously unlikely to go for a high-order (and specifically, I mean more than triplets) pregnancy. I tend to think that way though, i.e., look at what we were meant to do from an evolutionary perspective.


I hope I never have to make a decision like this, but it's hard to look at the "success" stories of higher order multiples and not wonder how it would be for the kids if they hadn't come in such numbers. For example, the sextuptlets on "Jon and Kate plus 8" are an amazing success, even though they were early and 4 of them suffer from asthma. But....how much attention do any of those kids get on a daily basis? How much of their baby/toddlerhood hasn't been rushed, hurried, and how much do the parents actually remember?? That's probably not a very good reason to consider reduction, but it's something I think about. Quality over quantity.
post #25 of 46
I agree. It took everything that I am and everything that I have (literally... including money to hire help) to raise my twins AP. And then I had a third full-term healthy singleton and it was like, "OHhhh.... THIS is what they meant by ______" (pick one: demand feeding, instant mother-baby bond, supply-and-demand for milk supply, true babywearing, etc etc ETC.). I mean, I've made peace with that to some extent and I did the absolute best I could, but it is what it is. And that was JUST twins! Good lord. Now I'm willing to admit that it is possible there are perhaps a handful of superheroes out there (all of whom are here on MDC! ) who can do it with triplets or whatever, but like 4, 5, 6+ babies? Forget it.
post #26 of 46
I don't think a person's happy childhood is affected much by what their *parents* remember. It's what the person remembers.

I'm sure my parents probably think they remember every second of my (only) childhood. It still sucked, and they're kind of in a bit of denial.

Give me parents who don't remember everything about my childhood or (horror of horrors) may not have even kept a baby book about me, but still had plenty of love to go around and who helped ME make good memories.

Sometimes I think we overintellectualize our children's childhood and make it all about US. I think to some degree it's probably good for parents to get over themselves in that regard.

I don't remember much of anything about the first 6 weeks of my boys' life. (Come to think of it, the daily details of my singleton's first couple of weeks are getting fuzzy.) So what? I wrote it down, we've got pictures, THEY know our family stories passed on, we make new memories and have fun together. I'm sure that my kids will be pissed at me about something someday, and you know, I've made worse parenting mistakes since then than not keeping a total recall of everything about their first year even. I'm also fairly confident that I will eff up even more times between now and when my kids are adults.

Numbers do not ensure quality. All they ensure is that the more you have the harder you have to work your rear off to ensure that quality. Which means that while your kids may have memories, your brain was firing on more cylinders and you may just not have laid down the long term memories. And why would your kid even care about that, when they can say to their brother/sister "Hey, do you remember that time when we made mama do the crazy lady dance when she thought we were doing X but really we snuck upstairs and filled up the toilet with baking soda and vinegar?" If they don't remember enough to reminisce with each other, they probably won't care if you don't know either. Because they forgot just like you. :P
post #27 of 46
I wasn't trying to say that it matters to the child whether or not I remember their upbringing, I was just trying to imply that if I'm so harried that I can't even remember what we had for breakfast then I don't think I'm going to be a very good parent. Certainly all parents are sleep-deprived, stressed, etc. But I think quality is what counts, and it's harder to come by when you have such numbers, KWIM?
post #28 of 46
My kids seem to have a pretty good life. I had 4 in 4 years and it's sometimes so harried I don't remember what we had for breakfast. When the twins get here it's going to be absolutely insane, but I wouldn't trade me life, or them, for the whole world.
post #29 of 46
The only problem with reduction is it's not as cut and dry as "Oh I love my kids, I can give enough of myself to ____ kids at once..."

It's ___ NEWBORNS - who need SO much... and who will only even be around to need to much IF you make it through the pregnancy. You need to weigh whether or not you can possibly be a good enough mother to that many kids... can you live up to your own standards... are you willing to compromise... (and let me say how glad I am to see all you twin moms say how hard it is! because it makes me feel like less of a doofus...) ... but you also need to weigh will you make it through the pregnancy? In my case I had years of infertility... treatments... shots... pills... tests... 3 miscarriages... tons of bleeding early in my triplet pregnancy... I was terrified I wouldn 't make it through the pregnancy. I didn't think I could parent 3 children at once to the best of my ability but more than that I was afraid I'd end up with 3 dead babies or 3 babies with disabilities... which doesn't happen as often as I was freaked out over... but which DOES happen...

It's not just a matter of someone dropping off 3 or more healthy kids on your doorstep and you having to deal with it - you need to get through the pregnancy, too - and a lot of times, things go wrong.

Jon & Kate + 8 is a show that really sticks in my craw... not just because of my own struggles but because 6 at once all healthy really is NOT reality. Just last year there was a couple in Minnesota who lost 5/6 of their babies and a couple in San Jose that lost 3/6. (This was at the same hospital I had my son and where I would have had these babies had I not switched OBs - so it really hit close to home) No one gave those couples a TV show. Probably no one is even talking about them now.

No one talks about the countless triplet and quad pregnancies that go south. It's only the miraculous successes you hear about.

So it's not just the parenting... 3 would have been really hard for me at once but I COULD have dealt with it... but the realities of the pregnancy are pretty scary, too. I wish I could have just run on blind faith - I wish "reduce" had never been mentioned and thus got the ball of fear rolling - but these are valid considerations.
post #30 of 46
For me it would be a all or nothing situation. I could never decide who lives and who dies. and if I were to loose them all then that would be what was ment to be.

I strongly feel you wont be given more than you can handle so there would be no reason to reduce.
post #31 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by MCatLvrMom2A&X View Post
For me it would be a all or nothing situation. I could never decide who lives and who dies. and if I were to loose them all then that would be what was ment to be.

I strongly feel you wont be given more than you can handle so there would be no reason to reduce.


I was this sure of myself too...I would never terminate a pregnancy, until I was faced with the decision.

My first decision as a mother was horrible and I regret it daily. I reduced from triplets to twins in February 2004. I walked into each appointment wanting to carry all three but I also feel I was pushed in this direction by the four doctors we saw hoping to be told we could carry all three but always leaving with the feeling we should reduce. It is a complicated and emotional decision forced to be made without the luxury of time and in fear of loosing all three babies. The decision is not made by women not wanting a pregnancy but by those who tried so hard to become pregnant. I had eight IVF cycles, six transfers, two miscarriages, one ectopic pregnancy and two hospitalizations due to hyper-stimulation…at this point I was not feeling lucky and was afraid to loose all three babies. I found information after the fact disproving the doctors’ frightening statistics. I struggle daily with my decision and in my case feel it was the wrong decision. The grief/torment from the reduction overshadowed the joy of my pregnancy but I am trying to not allow it to completely overshadow being a mother to my two living children.

I was so naïve and uneducated when I was told I was carrying triplets that I didn't even panic. I was excited and happy until my RE kept apologizing. I looked at him like he was crazy and he looked at me the same way. My RE was adamant about never transferring more than two embryos. But it was my last cycle and four looked 'ok' but not great. I had been pregnant three times prior but always with one. He said it was highly unlikely considering my history that more than one would 'take'. Here I was, in the stirrups ready for the transfer and he asked how I felt about reduction. I told him I never want to make that decision. In the next breath we all decided, I do take responsibility, that we would transfer all four. Ironically it was because I didn't want to kill two of them since they could not be re-frozen. In hindsight this decision made no sense after my response about reduction. We were caught up in the moment and the RE probably wasn't even listening to me. We waited until twelve weeks thinking one might die naturally. We did CVS testing thinking if one had serious health issues it would make our decision easier - they all tested fine. I felt I was carrying two girls and a boy and I was right. My RE doesn't do reductions in his office and never spoke with me again after sending me to another doctor also at Northwestern. I keep wondering if he thought I could carry all three but, he never said a word. Maybe if he would have actually talked to me, I w/h heard another side. When I mentioned it he said he couldn't help me with the decision.

Even though it has been several years, my emotions and grief feel so raw. I can go on and on…what I should have done differently; why didn’t I see one more doctor, why didn’t I stand up for myself and my baby? I became sick during the reduction and they had to stop and re-start. This was another opportunity to change my mind – but I didn’t.

I’m sorry to ramble…

I’ve never been ‘brave’ enough to share this info on MDC for fear of cruel comments and judgments. Thank you to those of you pp's who posted kindly and bravely.
post #32 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by MCatLvrMom2A&X View Post
I could never decide who lives and who dies.
The mother is not generally consulted on this. The fetus that is not doing as well, not as well placed, not as well developed, or... barring any other determining factors... the one who is the easiest to hit clearly with the needle is the one the perinatologist will choose. It's not an eeeny-meeeny kind of thing the mother has to go through.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MCatLvrMom2A&X
I strongly feel you wont be given more than you can handle so there would be no reason to reduce.
Women.. mothers.. are given more than they can handle all the time. Depression, anxiety/panic, suicide, drug abuse, comfort eating, and pulling away from the kids by detaching in small and large ways.... any of this sound familiar?
post #33 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by dbsam View Post
I’ve never been ‘brave’ enough to share this info on MDC for fear of cruel comments and judgments. Thank you to those of you pp's who posted kindly and bravely.
You are incredibly brave. You deserve to love yourself and your family, and I hope that with time you can find your own kind of peace with the incredibly difficult choice you had to make. I can't imagine your grief and really thank you for sharing the story to help other mamas.
post #34 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by Periwinkle View Post
Women.. mothers.. are given more than they can handle all the time. Depression, anxiety/panic, suicide, drug abuse, comfort eating, and pulling away from the kids by detaching in small and large ways.... any of this sound familiar?
: I don't subscribe to the "we're never given more than we can handle" theory either. I know that if you're approaching it from a Christian perspective that it is written in the Bible, and while I feel that I have a strong faith, I still don't believe that as a blanket statement applied to every human being. People definately ARE given more than they can handle by themselves - - on a daily basis. And 4 or 5 or 6 babies?? Wow....
post #35 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by RunnerDuck View Post
Just last year there was a couple in Minnesota who lost 5/6 of their babies and a couple in San Jose that lost 3/6.

No one talks about the countless triplet and quad pregnancies that go south. It's only the miraculous successes you hear about.
That's the truth of it. And not just with high order multiples, but also with extremely early babies. You never hear of the "miracle babies" on TV that go home with trachs and vents; but the media coverage about that supposed 21 weeker was all over because she was expected to have a relatively normal recovery. I know that's OT, but as you pointed out, when all we ever hear about are the "success" stories of high order multiples it makes you think that those pregnancies carry little risk.
post #36 of 46
dbsam thank for sharing your story.

We did infertility treatments to conceive our twins. At our last cycle, I likely ovulated 4 eggs. Initially they talked to me about reduction, and the pragmatic part of me thought I would be able to handle it.

And, then I read an excellent article about reduction in the Washington Post. I realized I had no idea what I was getting myself into.

In the end I never had to make that decision, but I have the utmost sympathies for those who do.

Here's the article:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...051501730.html
post #37 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by worcma View Post
Thank you so much for posting that. I have read a lot on reduction lately, but I hadn't come across that one. I think it really hit home for me because one of the couples was a family with two moms, like us.

I have been reading this thread with interest and I appreciate you all sharing your stories. I'm 11w3d with triplets, and we have decided not to reduce, but it is really such a completely agonizing decision I would never wish on anyone.
post #38 of 46
dbsam, I just want to say how very, very sorry I am that you still feel so much pain from your decision to reduce. I can only imagine the agony. When my beta came back so high, we knew we were expecting multiples and even the nurses thought there was a possibility of triplets or more. Fortunately, we saw two heartbeats and never had seriously contemplate such a tragic choice. I'm sure you made the best decision you could based on the information you had.

That Washington Post article was so tragic.

Vensutx, I'm glad you've made a decision you seem happy with and I wish you the very best with your pregnancy and babies.
post #39 of 46
The Washington Post article is a beautiful example of the scare tactics doctors use to convince women to reduce. Again - with quads the risks are higher and more real - but triplets... I just look back and I don't understand.

From the article -

"In 2005, I spent two days with Evans, where the first reduction patient was the distressed woman who had become pregnant with triplets. Triplets pregnancies are far riskier than most people realize: Carrying three babies to term would more than double the woman's risk of developing the most severe diseases of pregnancy, such as preeclampsia. The average triplet is born two months premature, significantly raising the risk of disabilities such as cerebral palsy and of lifelong damage to the infant's lungs, eyes, brain and other organs. By reducing the pregnancy to twins, the woman and her husband would decrease the risk of severe prematurity. And the risk of losing her entire pregnancy would fall from 15 percent to 4 percent."

I read this article when I was trying to decide. I guess one thing that got me was "the distressed woman." Made me feel *I* should be distressed. She's distressed, I should be distressed. All these doubled risks and significantly raised risks of this and that... it makes the whole thing sound so terrifying when you are facing the decision! On the one hand you want all those children. On the other you want what is best for those children. And "facts" like these scared me to death - but I look back and I am like, oh my god. "Doubled" sounds so scary - but doubled from WHAT? "Significantly raises" sounds so risky - but significant compared to WHAT? Are we talking a 60% chance vs. a 30% chance... or are we talking a 10% chance vs. a 5% chance? These were things I didn't think to ask - I just trusted my doctors wouldn't be reccomending this horrible procedure if there wasn't a good reason.

(And to them there was a good reason - THEIR bottom line!!!)

I hate the fact that I was a psych major in college and we did so many studies where we totally played with statistics to make our results prove our theories... yet I didn't think of these things.

There is a point later in that article where a woman has 3 girls and wants to keep all three... and is told, no, you can't keep all 3... man, it drives me batty to think how weak and scared I was feeling back then. That is how I felt. I read that and I thought, she can't keep all 3. I can't keep all 3. No one else wants me to keep all 3.

I hate that article. I hate that anyone is ever faced with this choice.
post #40 of 46
Wow, we have such amazing women on this site! Thank you all for sharing your heartache and decisions with us. I think one of the big disservices of our modern day world, is all the secrets everyone keeps! We smile and nod and no one really sees the hard parts we all go through!

I miscarried a triplet at 14 weeks when we discovered twins. I wouldn't have reduced, but I am sooooo glad that I was never pushed to make that decision in the first place. In fact, the thought hadn't even entered my head until I started reading this thread! Wow, that is really tweaking my brain!

s to all of you MOMs who have had to make such hard decisions!
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