"Medical" Marijuana during Labor - Page 7

[Chronic Chrissy]

Originally Posted by dziwozony

i don't have time to read all the responses right now, but just wanted to chime in that i've had phases of moderate pot smoking throughout my life & have used it medicinally for an upset tummy or headaches or similar such tings. BUT, i used to get really severe period cramps & actually found that it did not help with that at all. in fact, i found myself focusing on the pain more. for me, it was not good for that kind of pain at all. although in california i believe you can get a medial marijuana card for that specific complaint, so it must work for some women...

It also greatly depends on what strain you smoke. There are 1000s of diiferent pot strains with different genetics and effects, each very different. Some make you sleepy, others make you hungry, some numb your body while others make you extra sensitive, some wake you up in the morning, and others help you forget and be distracted.

I hate it when people say "I tried pot and it didn't work" or "I ttried pot and this happened that I didn't like" because I'm sure that if we had access to the strain names when we bought it and researched when strain families we were looking for I believe that pot would definately relieve almost any symptom. It really is like saying you don't like apples if all you'vwe tried are the ones off the tree in your back yard. Unfortunately people doin't know this, don't ask, and are often unwilling to pay the extra money because they believe that the pot is just stronger when really it is completely different that the cheap stuff most people have access to.

If you seek out the information about strains it really is easily accessable, and if you demand to know the strain names from your dealers you are eccentially empowering the whole pot community to take responsibility for what strains are bought and sold and how effectively it is communicated. You discuss medications effects with your pharmasist, discuss you medication with the dealer too, if they don't know the answers tell them they should either find out or they are losing a customer. Often dealers just don't tell you because they think you don't care and don't understand that you are treating something instead of using it to get high like most of their customers.

So that brings up the conversation of what strain would be most effective for labor. But you can't answer that because everyone wants something different for labor. One mom may want pain relief, while another may want internal focus, or higher senstivity to better connect with the birthing epereince, while another mom my want to zone out so she can let her body take over while she can still "sit back" and observe the miricle.

[groovynaturemama]

Originally Posted by Chronic Chrissy

I'm not attacking you in anyway
For smoking a pack a day I believe this argument is valid but not for a few joints a day or at the end of a healthy pregnancy.

it is valid anytime you inhale any smoke. it deprives the placenta of oxygen. period. a few joints, inhaling smoke from a bon fire or wood stove, smoking cigarettes. regardless of how long or short your breath is held, the placenta goes through varying degrees of oxygen deprivation (which directly affects the baby). in extreme cases, oxygen deprivation makes your risk of placental abruption far higher, in addition to preventing the normal amount of oxygen carried to the baby.

having said all that, i'm certainly not against smoking mj at all in pregnancy or otherwise. the fact of the matter is that inhaling any type of smoke poses an inherent risk to the baby. now, i'm not saying that risk will necessarily be detrimental in all cases, just that the risk is there, and it should be taken into account. the small amount of oxygen deprivation may be outweighed by the benefit of relief that the mj provdes for the mother in labor, while the low birth weight associated with smoking daily cigarettes, as well as the greater risk of placental abruption would be a risk that certainly outweighed the mother's desire to have her nicotine fix. what it comes down to is an individual risk/benefit analysis. what's right for one mama may no be right for all. i certainly am of the opinion that a mama should be able to choose and assess her and her baby's individual risk (assuming that they are well informed).

[kriket]

Originally Posted by Chronic Chrissy

I think people have this vision of smokers holding their breaths as long as they can to get the full effects of the smoke, this just isn't always true.

yeah, we stop doing that in high school

[gretae]

I work in a hospital and they test everyone and report everyone to child protection who tests positive for any kind of "illegal" drug, no exceptions. In my state they will hold your baby at the hospital and they will take him or her from you. As much as I'd love to try mj, I won't because I can't stand the thought of any state agency being involved in my life and my children. sad though, that some helpful silly herb causes such a spaz for beaurocracies.

[Frunchy Mama]

I was reading the BBC News article someone posted and I just couldn't help laughing at this statement especially:

"Tobacco from manufacturers has been enhanced and cleaned whereas cannabis is relatively unprocessed and therefore is a much dirtier product."

The whole article had me in disbelief, but that line just tickled me pink!

I have to say I had never thought of using mj for labor, but now that it's been brought up, I really can't see any reason not to use it....as long as it is medicinal use--a very light dose, as someone mentioned, because I would want to be alert. I know that when I smoke, it often makes me very meditative and relaxed and I usually come up with amazingly soothing revelations that affect my life on many levels during and after the "high." It seems like a perfect compliment to hypnobirthing, which I"m looking into trying.

However, I quit smoking a while back, before was preg and thought it best not to smoke while preg for 2 reasons. The first is that i was not absolutely sure it was okay, even tho I thought so, and I KNOW it's better than eating, say, a Big Mac or even breathing in the air at a high traffic intersection probably. And 2. My DH has ill feelings toward mj becasue of how he's seen past friends abuse it and when I did smoke, I felt like i needed to hide it and it made me feel dishonest and paranoid--sucky since it was such a great occasional supplement for me before. But if I can explain it to him and have his support I think I would be able to have a positive experience from it.

I really can't see how using a responsible dose of mj could be seen as diff than something like rescue remedy (which reminds me to put that on my hospital bag list) or aromatherapy. And to compare it to an epi is just crazy IMO! Matter of fact, I find it unbelievable the way a hospital would deal with a baby will a small amout of weed in their system but they advocate and even PUSH all these super harmful drugs into the systems of mothers and babies!!! What a world we live in!!!

As far as legal repercussions.... When I was younger there were some friends of friends of mine who were daily smokers--complete potheads to the fullest--all day every day smokers. When the girl gave birth to her baby after she'd continued her normal mj use during pregnancy, they were questioned and there was a big ordeal at the hospital, but they did not lose their baby. I find it hard to believe that one could actually lose their baby from finding a small dose of mj in their system if that's the case, but yeah, I"m sure it depends on the state. I'm in MI, tho, and it's pretty conservative out here and mj laws are pretty strict.

One last thing...as far as what's a natural birth and what's not. My reasons for wanting a natural birth are not so I can say I did it completely natural, or even know that myself, but because I know the harm that's done to the natural high when drugs and other interventions are introduced into the mix (and the other side effects of those drugs). If mj or another natural herb or supplement didn't interfere or actually enhanced the experience, I can't see why they shouldn't be used--whether you'd consider that a "natural" birth or not.

[an_aurora]

Originally Posted by gretae

I work in a hospital and they test everyone and report everyone to child protection who tests positive for any kind of "illegal" drug, no exceptions. In my state they will hold your baby at the hospital and they will take him or her from you. As much as I'd love to try mj, I won't because I can't stand the thought of any state agency being involved in my life and my children. sad though, that some helpful silly herb causes such a spaz for beaurocracies.

I just wanted to add my experience. I work in the postpartum unit of a large hospital and they DO test everyone. It's routine. All moms get blood drawn after birth and a drug screen is included in that. Moms are not notified specifically that they are testing for drugs. It's included in the consent forms you sign at admission. Anyway, we did have one baby taken away but the mom tesed positive for cocaine. There was one mom that was definitely positive for MJ, and this mom and her DH were smoking in the room. The nurses giggled and rolled their eyes and went on with their day.

That said, I stopped using MJ in the 3rd trimester with both kids. I'm paranoid, and I'd hate to have a transfer and get that one nurse who makes an exception and calls the one cranky social worker.

[Vizionz]

just so you know

On March 21, 2001, the Court decided by a 6-3 vote that state hospitals cannot inform police of the drug test results done on pregnant women without their consent.

Ever heard of

Ferguson, Crystal v. City of Charleston, et al.

I think people who give advice and information should research what they say.

I also think people have the right to be informed....

um let's all make it a point to learn something.

Try going to norml.org

and read the information that is unbiased and the government hasn't the ability to taint=)

[sg784]

Originally Posted by Vizionz

On March 21, 2001, the Court decided by a 6-3 vote that state hospitals cannot inform police of the drug test results done on pregnant women without their consent.

Ever heard of

Ferguson, Crystal v. City of Charleston, et al.

I think people who give advice and information should research what they say.

I also think people have the right to be informed....

um let's all make it a point to learn something.

Try going to norml.org

and read the information that is unbiased and the government hasn't the ability to taint=)

The Anti-pot crowd here at MDC thinks norml.org is biased. They spew drug war propaganda left and right and wont look at research , or controlled studies, Im guessing because *gasp* they might end up changing their minds that MJ is the devil!

[Talula Fairie]

The thing is, anything that decreases pain also has the chance to screw up the delicate balance of hormones you're experiencing in labor. My midwife says that you go to a really low place during labor so that you can go sky high after labor, if that makes any sense. I'd be worried about screwing up that endorphin rush, which is so important for mother and baby bonding, preventing PPD, all that.

Plus, as others said, what if you transferred to the hospital and they found out? If you really need pain relief (and don't want to try the other natural methods like a birth tub, massage, ect), just have a regular medicated hospital birth.

ETA: A lot of people a few pages back were talking about other herbs or supplements used during labor or pregnancy such as castor oil, black cohosh, red raspberry leaf, ect. Here is the main difference I see between those things and MJ, they're not mind/mood altering. And I don't think any of them will have an effect on your endorphins either.

[Talula Fairie]

Originally Posted by sg784

The Anti-pot crowd here at MDC thinks norml.org is biased. They spew drug war propaganda left and right and wont look at research , or controlled studies, Im guessing because *gasp* they might end up changing their minds that MJ is the devil!

Fwiw, I'm not a big fan of that site and I am not anti pot. I think it's a valid treatment for several medical problems, including hyperemesis in pregnancy. I've used it myself during pregnancy #2 when I couldn't keep anything down and nothing else worked.

[thepoet]

Originally Posted by gretae

I work in a hospital and they test everyone and report everyone to child protection who tests positive for any kind of "illegal" drug, no exceptions. In my state they will hold your baby at the hospital and they will take him or her from you. As much as I'd love to try mj, I won't because I can't stand the thought of any state agency being involved in my life and my children. sad though, that some helpful silly herb causes such a spaz for beaurocracies.

What state are you in so I know never to move there.

[starshine1001]

:

[Talula Fairie]

You know, I still can't wrap my mind around why someone would want ANY pain relief in labor if they are going for a natural birth. The whole point is the experience, the bad and the good. Why would you want to risk messing with the complex cocktail of endorphins and hormones during labor? Pot is a drug too.

[Chronic Chrissy]

Originally Posted by Talula Fairie

You know, I still can't wrap my mind around why someone would want ANY pain relief in labor if they are going for a natural birth. The whole point is the experience, the bad and the good. Why would you want to risk messing with the complex cocktail of endorphins and hormones during labor? Pot is a drug too.

Obviousely this thread is being revisited so I'm not sure if we've gone over this before or not. but....(please don't take this in a snarky way)

According to what you are saying than women should consume nothing during labor. No tea, tincture, no honey, no other herbs or even food, a woman should go into labor and trust that her body is prepared with everything it needs. Technically whether a mother is hydrated or not can affect the outcome of te labor(however in the oppisite way) but in the same sense.
A mothers body tells her she is thirsty and she drinks. A mothers body tells her she is hungry and what she is hungry for and she eats. However when a womans body tells her that she is tense and it is found to a mind relaxation problem that is preventing her from progressing past a cetain point it is the same as dehydration, hunger, or even a stagnant birth setting, there is a need that needs to be met in order for labor to progress normally because of how our minds alter normal labor.

The more that I think about it marijuana isn't a pain killer at all, it is a mind relaxant that unlocks the tension in the mind and thus relaxs the tension connected in the body, the same as a massage, hands just don't fit through our ears but smoke does.

If a woman wants nothing but the experience of birth with no outside influences then it would just make sense to have water birthing chambers that cut off all the senses except for the ones the body produces itself, not music, or visualzition point, not light levels to control, or contact with a hubby, no encouraging voices, or supportive pillows, all of these are outside influences that depending on the woman may have enough of an impact to affect her horomone and endorphin levels.

Not to mention that there are regular marijuana users who incorperate their herb into their day the same as food, water, excercise, tea, because they depend on it for some reason or another to keep them balanced and healthy so their horomones can work properly and not be interfered with by homones caused by emotions they can't turn off such as in the case of depression. I guess I'm seeing it like a diabetic needing their medicatin even though they are in labor, or somebody who depends on thyroid medication. A long labor may warrant a need for these medications depending on how their deficiency is effecting "normal" labor horomones. It doesn't mean they are taking away from their labor experience it means they are allowing themselves to experience it for what it is and not what their medical problems turn it into.

I just thought I would throw in a few new spins on the subject for us to discuss....

[Talula Fairie]

I'm sorry but, there is no tea or tincture that is the same as a psychotropic drug. Food isn't even in the same realm as pot. I've mentioned that earlier in the thread. Not even close to a valid comparison.

I also have a hard time believing marijuana truly keeps anyone balanced and healthy, I think it does the opposite. But that's just my opinion. I do think it has valid medical uses, but daily use is generally not one of them except in cases of hyperemsis, cancer treatment, glaucoma, ect. I think it should be used as the drug that it is, like narcotics. I also do not think it should be used for the treatment of mental illness. But that's a whole other issue, and I am well aware many disagree.

[Chronic Chrissy]

Originally Posted by Talula Fairie

I'm sorry but, there is no tea or tincture that is the same as a psychotropic drug. Food isn't even in the same realm as pot. I've mentioned that earlier in the thread. Not even close to a valid comparison.

Yes there are! What about Skullcap? Catnip? Motherwart? Elevated levels of oxygen can affect how people behave differently than normal. Caffine is another one. Even cammamillia(why can't I ever spell that word!) is psychotropic.

I really think that people believe the affects of pot are strong and very influencial, when in reality different people react differently to different herbs in different doses, and develope different levels of resisitance. For example some people may feels very out of it, while others may just enter a state of relaxation equivical to curling up on the couche with a heat pad in your pj's, and sometimes when your world is falling apart and about to crumble you need that time out to recenter yourself. Others may be able to release their tension and clear their head just like after a meditation or yoga period.

You have to remember experienced medical marijuana users are able to know how to adjust their doses to meet the immediate need, as well as last as long as possible, so we keep doses on the low side. Some only smoke a joint combined throughout the day in small doses, not bowl after bowl to trip out and play video games all night long and eat pizza.

[Talula Fairie]

Those are not mind altering drugs. They do not produce a high or work on brain chemistry and serotonin the same way. Just not the same thing. Caffeine, maybe could be considered mind altering, but barely, and it has to be taken in much larger doses than MJ would to effect the brain at the same level. And again, it does not work on the brain in the same way at all.

This is not something I'm going to change my mind on, I'm sorry to say.

I know quite a few medical marijuana users. I do live in California after all.

[Ldavis24]

did someone say Marijuana was a narcotic?
According to the government which classified it as such or what?
As far as I've always thought narcotics are more along the lines of cocaine etc...
Marijuana a plant that is generally not processed if the grower knows what they are doing.
Now I am confused..
BTW saying that caffeine MAY be mind altering but barely is ridiculous, it is known to be highly addictive and while I hate coffee and soda and generally all other caffeine products (except for some chocolate yum!) I can say that having worked in a coffee shop it is amazing how miserable people will be before they get that first sip of their precious coffee and then magically the world is right again.

Also I have had some pretty intense teas my friend brought back from India and Nepal and they completely rivaled pot in their mind/body alterations. I would say one of them was even more intense than taking a few puffs from a bowl.

Daily use has some wonderful benefits as well. Would you rather down a glass of wine or smoke a pipe because the effect you are going for is the same. Allowing your body and mind to relax after a stressful day. Just because people go about it differently doesn't make it wrong.
I also have an incredibly difficult time getting to sleep and sleeping soundly at night without smoking a bowl before I go to bed...Before I was pregnant I would smoke before bed every night. There have been periods where I haven't smoked at all for months and the difference in my sleep and waking rested were amazing. I imagine that is a mental thing, but I would much rather do that than take some stupid pill that I could quite possibly get addicted to.:

[Talula Fairie]

I did not say marijuana was a narcotic. I said it should be treated in the same was as one: as in, it's a serious drug that should only be used in specific cases. I thought I was pretty clear about that.

I'm LDS (Mormon) and I do not drink coffee or tea or alcohol, only the occasional soda. I am well aware that caffeine can be addictive. That's a moot point in this discussion. Caffeine does not make you hallucinate, it does not make you "high" for the most part. It's a moderate stimulant that can be used in high doses to have a stronger effect. It's just not mind altering in the same way.

As for whether using substances to relax is ok or not, I don't think that's the point of this thread at all. This thread is about medical marijuana in labor.

[Ldavis24]

Originally Posted by Talula Fairie

I'm sorry but, there is no tea or tincture that is the same as a psychotropic drug. Food isn't even in the same realm as pot. I've mentioned that earlier in the thread. Not even close to a valid comparison.

I also have a hard time believing marijuana truly keeps anyone balanced and healthy, I think it does the opposite. But that's just my opinion. I do think it has valid medical uses, but daily use is generally not one of them except in cases of hyperemsis, cancer treatment, glaucoma, ect. I think it should be used as the drug that it is, like narcotics. I also do not think it should be used for the treatment of mental illness. But that's a whole other issue, and I am well aware many disagree.

"I think it should be used as the drug that it is." You don't understand what a serious drug is if you consider marijuana a "serious" drug. By treating it like a narcotic you are putting it in the same category as cocaine, heroin, meth, crack, oxycodones etc.

It is a naturally growing plant that while you might think it has hallucinogenic effects you are far from correct in that statement. Marijuana does not make you hallucinate in any way. It is not LSD or mushrooms or peyote or anything like that. I take it you have never smoked it, which is fine with me but please don't go talking about its effects if you have not experienced them yourself.

There is a huge difference between a "high" which both caffeine and marijuana produce and a hallucinogenic effect which marijuana does not produce.

I don't think many woman would even consider using marijuana during labor if it was actually a hallucinogen. Not the best time to be tripping out when you are trying to get a baby out, but because that is not what marijuana is or does you see so many woman trying it during labor..
A woman who is best friends with my SIL and uses the same midwife smoked during her labor when she was 1-2cm and then went to the hospital and gave birth. She said it greatly aided her in relaxing through those early hours. I'm not saying that would be good for everyone but I fail to see how it is different than other PPs have pointed out, from drinking a strong tea or having a glass of wine..

Incidentally, I don't know if she had a blood test post baby but no one said a word to her about having marijuana in her system. IDK though, we are in MA and it is not exactly high priority on government radar.