NYT Article - Doulas & LCs - Page 2

[BrooklynDoula]

Well said Dewi.

[dewi]

Thanks Brooklyn Doula!

Now if some thoughtful letters to the editor at the Times would be published that would be a good thing.

[Sage.Naissance]

Good responses everyone. Thank you Pamela for speaking directly to our concerns as doulas, where the credibility of our roles in birth is being questioned in a majour media source.
In response to the comment by the nurse: "From a nursing standpoint, too many crossed a line and interfered with my job"
There are some nurses who just adore us and trust us, and some nurses who undoubtedly HATE doulas. It depends on the nurse and what they see their job as being. A lot of nurses really hate to see their patients in pain and desparately want them to get an epidural purely from a standpoint of compassion. If our client is adamant about natural childbirth and we ask the nurse to stop offering epidurals every time she enters the room and telling the woman "not to be a hero" we are, in some way, interfering with her job, if she sees her job to be to relieve the pain of her clients. A lot of nurses just dont get natural childbirth. And a lot do.
That doula mentioned was just a bad doula. A lot of nurses dont like good doulas, a lot of GOOD nurses dont like doulas, its just a different view of birth, and what we perceive our roles to be. Now if doulas are in there messing around with medical stuff and telling nurses what to do, then roles are really being messed up.
Hope that was a coherent way to explain that indeed, sometimes nurses and doulas are at odds, unfortunately. It not always because one or the other is bad or incompotent, but that they both want the mother have a great birth experience but have a different idea about what that experience should be. Hopefully the doula's view of that experience is on par with the mothers because THAT IS OUR JOB. To support her to have the birth that SHE wants, and help her reconcile that with the realities in the hospital. Not the birth that the nurse wants, we want(on the inside), the OBGYN wants, the resident wants etc.

[dewi]

Permission was given to pass this along to other doulas on national lists.
From a contact in Chicago...

> Yes I know the doula. She called me the day the article came out.
> The hospital that they were at, routinely kicks everyone out of the
> room for the epidural. They MADE her leave. She says she came
> right back in afterward. I know other details as well. This was
> clearly a case of reporter looking for facts to fit the story she
> already had written in her head. We get that all the time with the
> midwifery licensure bill stuff too. sucks.

> Doula was never really told by client that they were unhappy. Since
> she read this she plans to send them a private note saying she's
> sorry they are so unhappy, but wishes they had told her. She'll
> open the door to dialogue now. We'll see what happens. Thanks for
> caring about this.
>

[BrooklynDoula]

Dewi, I was just coming to post the same thing I had wondered if this was the case with the doula who left, since it is not uncommon for doulas to be made to leave. It is nice to have it confirmed (although it should never have been printed anyhow). I feel bad for the doula how did not even know she had unhappy clients and then found herself smeared in the NYT.

For Pamela, how did you let this slip? I imagine you are a good journalist, given your stated commitments to the profession, and yet, if the doula was made to leave the room by staff and then returned afterwards, why was this not what made it into the story?

Perhaps you could use your contacts and skills to write something about how amazing many doulas are and how they have assisted women in avoiding unnecessary surgeries, vaginal traumas, and easied their way into motherhood with kind, non-judgmental support. I think there is a story there.

[dewi]

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/09/fashion/09lett.html?ref=fashion

Letters to the editor published in this Sundays Times.

[dewi]

Originally Posted by BrooklynDoula

Dewi, I was just coming to post the same thing Perhaps you could use your contacts and skills to write something about how amazing many doulas are and how they have assisted women in avoiding unnecessary surgeries, vaginal traumas, and easied their way into motherhood with kind, non-judgmental support. I think there is a story there.

Hey Brooklyn Doula,

In regards to your above comment, will not happen with that journalist!
If you Google what the journalist writes about you will see her interests and style is never the supportive happy love-fest articles or books. That is not her journalist style.

She has a journalistic muckraker style, which is truly okay if the discord with doulas and clients actually existed, and she did not have to conjure this imaginary national problem.
Her books are expose of porn, her failed marriage and
the newest book is about parental consumerism.



Anyhow, On to happier things...
I looked at your blog and website, both are lovely, you look so familiar! I think we met a the Tribeca Film festival screening of "The Business of Being Born". I was in the movie a (I was one of three fat doulas they talked to at the back of the birth conference footage).

I'm going to PM you an interesting observation about the Journalist and her new book.

[AmieV]

1) Where I work, we are routinely asked to leave for the placement of the epidural too, and I cannot BELIEVE that this journalist spun it that way. Ridiculously bad reporting.
2) I LOVE that the first letter to the editor is an M.D. that used a doula! Rock on!
3) This journalist IMO is clearly using this article to hype her book about parental consumerism. So if you look at it as sensationalist advertising, it makes it marginally less offensive.

[dewi]

AmieV,

To paraphrase another doula, 'at least it was buried in the Style section.'

However as a feminist and woman's health advocate I cannot take in stride that serious woman's health issues are still relegated to the
"Style and Fads" section of the New York Times.

[AmieV]

dewi,
hear, hear! I think if we lived in a culture that celebrated birth and didn't fear it, that recognized the doula's vital role in birth...then sure, write an exposé about how a few doulas are running rampant and working outside their scope of practice. but to do so in a society where women are SO ill-informed about their options is just irresponsible. I truly, truly, truly hope that this article didn't dissuade someone from hiring a doula or LC, even just one person would be a devastation. And for the journalist to come in here and act like she didn't recognize the potential effects of this article is deplorable.

It wasn't about "Make sure your doula has training/experience and is on the same page as you" which is a good message. It was "Some women have horrible experiences with doulas, and there's no oversight, and some of them act like they're midwives!" It was hysterical and overblown. They even used a picture of a doula palpating a pregnant belly for the article, which is something that is generally not at all within the doula scope of practice or performed and further confuses the public. :

[dewi]

Amie

I'm not sure if your tone is about the article or towards me, maybe i should clarify that I was responding to your comment #3, I brought up the taking it in 'stride' because it was in "woman's style section" of the paper.

~~~~~~~~~
We are in agreement and I have written so publicly that i think the journalist has taken perhaps a minuscule issue with mismatched doulas and clients and the resulting discord and blown it to a statical crisis by inaccurately citing that study. By the mere act of having it written about in the NY Times without adding how to find a doula or addressing intelligently the real health issues she claims exists (over use of clinically unnecessary interventions) then she has turned in slipshod journalism.

I too did not apperciate the inaccurate staged photo of a doula palpating a pregnant belly to drive home her point of doulas practicing out side the scope of common doula support.

[AmieV]

it's all good dewi...I was agreeing with you completely, and mainly just ranting a little bit more.

[fairydoula]

Originally Posted by PPaul

Hello again,

I want to respond again because this discussion has become really interesting. I'm going to apologize in advance if this is my last post here, and if it's rather brief, but I have a crazy day at work and a doctor appt for my toddler.

Many of you raise the question of why I didn't present positive examples alongside the negative ones. I would have loved to have offered more examples and more of the positive side, but please do not underestimate the restrictions of word count. This story was drastically cut as it is. There was a lot more to say. Truly, the only place to write more freely is in blogs and in books, and I try to do so with both. I have started blogging at HuffPo, and I also have a book coming out next month that is an expose of the commercialization of parenthood in which I go into some of these issues at more length. And there is always more to be said....

I think some of the misunderstanding here also may arise from how journalists (at least responsible ones) work or try to work. I'm not saying I'm perfect, but if I write a story about conflicts with doulas and LCs, it is not with an agenda in mind but with an intention to document a phenomenon that is occurring. OF course, it is my hope that the issue will make moms (and dads) more conscientious when choosing lay caregiver help, and will perhaps inspire both fields to educate parents about their purpose and training. Unfortunately, no matter what I write, there always seem to be people who get upset and it seems to go with the territory. Last month, I wrote a story on the resurgence of cloth diapering in Time magazine. (http://www.time.com/time/magazine/ar...702357,00.html) Was the disposable diaper industry furious? You bet.

Again, I am sorry if my story upset anyone, but truly, my hope is that women get the best possible care they can. I personally had a VBAC with my second child and the OB in NYC was so furious that I went through with it that he refused to speak to me or make eye contact while I was in the delivery room. I am considering getting a midwife the next time around, but as many of you know, options are severely limited in NYC as they are in many other areas. I want for their to be as many, and as good, options for women as possible, irrespective of income or insurance.

I wish everyone the best here. Again, I am sorry if I am unable to write again on this particular forum. But I hope that the discussion will continue in good spirit with or without me.

All best,
Pamela

Pamela,
I appreciated the spirit of your article and I would hope that it would encourage parents to remember to ask for references when deciding on their doula. I welcome it and have good solid references to supply. Most of my parents, amazingly, do NOT ask! Even so, I strive every day to make my practice mother-friendly and the story you wrote of, about a doula WALKING OUT on a mother because of an epidural was shocking, to say the least. Early on as a doula, a mother chose to have an epidural and asked me if I was disappointed in her?!?!?! NO... but I was deeply ashamed of me for obviously projecting MY OWN opinion of epidurals to this mother so strongly that she was worried AT HER BIRTH of what I would think of her!!! Now I've come to realize that I need to be very very careful to make sure that the information and support I give mothers comes from a factual basis and not colored (as much as possible) by my own beliefs and opinions. I offer information and additional information when questions come up, but rarely do I offer my own advice or opinion. I do believe that mothers need to be informed and supported in their own informed decisions. Their decisions may wildly differ from mine in certain situations, but that doesn't make them "bad" or "wrong"... just different.

Thanks for the reminder that one must be a careful consumer. Regardless of the service, there are good and bad and mediocre in all fields. There are fantastic doulas and L.C.'s and there are truly horrible ones too. It's just human nature to have a spectrum. It's also wise advice to know that there are good and bad, and have enough information and sense to know the difference.

I too wish there had been more feel good stories of great doulas and LC's and why one would engage the services of either, but there are limitations to every story published in that type of forum.
If you seek to do a follow up article, I would encourage a view from inside the profession, a take on being on call, the challenges and strains on the families, the lack of insurance reimbursment, the low pay, the low recognition, the issues between some territorial nurses and doulas, the training or lack thereof, the experience and/or lack thereof, etc.

Thanks!
- Jen
Dona trained doula in Michigan