Elementary school expense - Page 2

[greeny]

Before we turn in the nonrefundable $600 deposit for her tuition, I've decided to meet with the superintendent and sit in on some classes at our local public school. Just to see.

[lalaland42]

Originally Posted by greeny

Before we turn in the nonrefundable $600 deposit for her tuition, I've decided to meet with the superintendent and sit in on some classes at our local public school. Just to see.

I would take a look at their "homework" as well. One of the reasons I would never send DD to a public school in certain areas around here is the quality of the homework. Since we have those stupid No Child Left Behind tests (TAKS in TX), the math and science homework is multiple choice. Private schools are exempt from the TAKS test.

ETA: I pay about the same as you do for Montessori school but I am not sure what DD will do when she is elementary school age. I can tell you she probably will not be attending public school and definitely will not in Texas. (We are moving in a year and a half though so TX will not be an issue)

[greeny]

Shoot. I forgot about "homework." That's another thing I hate about public schools, especially ours here because the super is really trying to improve the test scores, so there will inevitably be a lot of "teaching to the test" going on and homework to facilitate that. Yuck.

But I will still check it out.

[Blue Tulip]

My kids have gone to both private and public. They started out in private. Then, we moved to another state and ended up in an area with excellent public schools.

We pay higher taxes now, but it's still not the amount we'd be paying for BOTH kids to go to private. The public schools here, we feel, are BETTER than the private they were going to before. Also, since we're in an area that has great schools, our property values stay higher than other areas, and our area is just sought out in general. The quality of life is better, IMO.

It's a tough decision. But as a mom whose been through both of what you describe, I can tell you we enjoy the better public schools/higher taxes situation. It just seems better financially in the long run. And, our kids seem to have a lot more services/opportunities in the public school system.

[Piglet68]

My kids don't go to school, so it's much cheaper for us. But we would choose to homeschool even if it cost more money, because it is the best choice for our children. I know my DD and she would suffer in a regular classroom. Her self-esteem, confidence, and love of learning are priceless and I would pay whatever I could afford to preserve them.

You know your child better than anyone and you know best in what educational environment your child will thrive, and which would be potentially damaging for them. If you feel strongly that Montessori is best for your child then go for it. A good education (with all the social, emotional, and physical experiences that go along with it) is priceless.

Being Frugal is not about never spending money. It's about spending money where your true priorities are.

[greeny]

Being Frugal is not about never spending money. It's about spending money where your true priorities are.

Good point. Thanks for the reminder. Two things dh and I said we would never scrimp on if we could avoid it are education and healthy food.

Still, though, when I multiply that $7200 by 9 years, it makes my stomach hurt.

[txdancer]

Originally Posted by sanguine_speed

We will not pay for private school, on principle. Call it sacrificing my children for the sake of others, but it is what it is. If everyone who didn't like public school did something about it instead of opting out, public school would be much better off. I am not abandoning those who cannot afford to make that choice. I realize most people don't agree with my opinion on this matter, but I hold it dear to my heart. Education is fundamentally important to all children, and I feel we all need to work together so all children have good educational opportunities. I also feel that even if my child doesn't get the "perfect" educational opportunities that there will be opportunities for learning and growth from public school that she might not get otherwise. The children whose families can not afford private education? My child would never meet them in a private school.
I also feel comfortable taking on any additional work to ensure she can succeed and learn...and I'm not entirely concerned about her grades at this stage.

I 100% agree with this message. We could afford to send my dd to a private school but I think it is important to help make the public school's better instead. I think it is also important to remember that as a parent you really determine how your child's education goes, no matter where you go to school. There are also lots of in-school opportunities to help not only your child, but also others.

My daughter also does meet people she would not meet in a private school setting. Today, on the way home she asked me what an "illegal person" was. I finally figured out that she meant and "illegal immigrant," and one of her friends had told her that that is what she was. It made for an interesting educational opportunity.

Originally Posted by greeny

Good point. Thanks for the reminder. Two things dh and I said we would never scrimp on if we could avoid it are education and healthy food.

Still, though, when I multiply that $7200 by 9 years, it makes my stomach hurt.

I don't know why you are using the number 9. Would your child be going to public high school? If not it would actually be 13 years, and usually high school tuition is much higher.

[jazzharmony]

Just FWIW, you can work toward bettering the public schools without your child having to suffer irreparable damage, to make a point.

[greeny]

I don't know why you are using the number 9. Would your child be going to public high school? If not it would actually be 13 years, and usually high school tuition is much higher.

K + Grades 1 - 8 = 9 years. And then yes, there would be high school too. But I don't mind paying that much for high school. That makes me need to examine why I feel that high school is more "worth it," when, in fact, it seems like the younger grades are more crucial in terms of early learning and development. Perhaps I have a skewed view of education.....

I 100% agree with this message. We could afford to send my dd to a private school but I think it is important to help make the public school's better instead. I think it is also important to remember that as a parent you really determine how your child's education goes, no matter where you go to school. There are also lots of in-school opportunities to help not only your child, but also others.

My daughter also does meet people she would not meet in a private school setting. Today, on the way home she asked me what an "illegal person" was. I finally figured out that she meant and "illegal immigrant," and one of her friends had told her that that is what she was. It made for an interesting educational opportunity.

I do agree with this too, and wherever my kids end up, I plan to be involved not only in the school but in teaching them things they aren't getting in the classroom, which will happen anywhere.

As far as meeting different people.... yes. The Montessori school we're looking at is in a very wealthy suburb near ours (but much, much wealthier than ours!), that happens not to be very diverse in terms of race. But our neighborhood is, and we have casual friends on our block of different races and ethnicities. So even if she didn't necessarily get diversity in school, she would in our neighborhood.

I am so torn. I am stressing so much about this decision. This weekend my dh and I are going to sit down and really talk about this.

And, like I've mentioned before, the biggest issue is the personality of my dd. She is not as resilient or adaptable as other kids, including our ds, and she is resistant to school and most outings outside the house in general. When we went to that Montessori open house, she fell in love and embraced the idea of going instead of fighting it as she had at every other school we visited. I kind of wish we'd never gone to that Montessori open house at all. *sigh*

[karne]

We have done both, to the tune of many, many thousands of dollars. Currently our local public school offers a better academic education than the private school, and we are happy with this. So, I would definitely look at the pub. school first, maybe give it a try. You can always switch if you are unhappy, or if your child's learning needs would be benefitted. I wouldn't make assumptions about anything-get out there and see for yourself, and personally I would make several visits to whatever school you are choosing. i found that just the emotion of thinking you are sending your kid to the particualr school you visit the first time can be overwhelming, good or bad. The second visit often offers a clearer picture, ime.

Our financial person also said to make sure your retirement is being adequately funded before making school choices, so that gave us some pause as well.

[txdancer]

Originally Posted by jazzharmony

Just FWIW, you can work toward bettering the public schools without your child having to suffer irreparable damage, to make a point.

This is really offensive to me. Most public schools, probably close to 100%, don't cause irreparable damage to their students. For a lot of students they do a world of good. Although I know lots of people, including myself at times, get frustrated with the beauracracy of the public education system, it isn't evil. Most people who work in it are kind people who care about the kids they are working with.

And for the most part schools do a good job meeting the ever-increasing expectations set upon them.

[HipGal]

I would check into *why* the test scores aren't so great. In some cases, schools can be excellent with wonderful teachers but the test scores aren't high just because there is a large number of English Language learners. In that case, I wouldn't be worried about the test scores at all and would be excited for my kids to go to a more diverse school. But there probably are instances where low test scores could be a red flag that something isn't working at the school.

Do you know anyone whose child goes to the public school? That's probably your best bet to learn what is really going on there.

I could see why you are totally tempted by the Montessori if your daughter seemed to click with it. If you can make it work, it could be totally worth it. Could you tell what it was that she liked about this particular school?

Private schools around here are like $12,000 - so it sounds like a deal to me!

[schrocat]

If your daughter really likes the montessori and you can afford it, why not? I like the concept of montessori and DS is currently in the toddler room at a montessori which we pay $715 a month for him to be at. It's expensive but he thrives there. We had actually tried out some church preschools which didn't work out for us. DS had started acting up really badly at home after going to one of them. I realized that it was because of behavior that he had picked up from some of his classmates and pulled him out immediately. For us, the expense is justifiable at the moment because it's a really good fit for DS and he's currently the only child. When we have to split our resources, we'll re-evaluate our decision to send him there.

[mamamelia]

i agree on not scrimping -- that is one of our "rules" too.
like schrocat, we pay $715 a month for dd to attend a montessori school that goes from 3-12yo.

(ummm... as a side note schrocat, do our children attend the same school? lol @ the cost)

while $715 a month is costly, i think the expense is worth it. she had her first week this week and loves it there. i've seen a difference in her already and i'm glad we decided to take the plunge and enrol her. dd#2 will be attending once there is a place for her in the toddler room and the costs will start to add up, but i'm sure we can make it through some careful budgeting.

it is a lot over the years, but food costs a lot too and that (like education) pretty much goes in, some stays and some goes out. good food and a good education are the two places where i feel like i can spend and not be at a loss.. i say go for it.

[greeny]

I would check into *why* the test scores aren't so great. In some cases, schools can be excellent with wonderful teachers but the test scores aren't high just because there is a large number of English Language learners. In that case, I wouldn't be worried about the test scores at all and would be excited for my kids to go to a more diverse school. But there probably are instances where low test scores could be a red flag that something isn't working at the school.

We don't have many ESL kids. I don't thnk that's a reason for the low scores in our schools.

People give three reasons for low test scores:

1) The special ed scores are reflected in the scores (but isn't this the case everywhere?)
2) There are a lot of transient students in the schools, a lot of rentals that supposedly have such high turnover that there is instability in the schools. This doesn't really make sense to me, but it's the explanation given.
3) These lower income transient students generally don't have a parent home much, as the parents are spending a lot of time working to make ends meet, so the students don't have someone at home helping them get their homework done and, as a result, don't do well in school. (But if the school is doing a good enough job educating, homework shouldn't make or break a good student, right??)

Do you know anyone whose child goes to the public school? That's probably your best bet to learn what is really going on there.

No. I know people whose kids go to two of the other public elementary schools in our district, two that have much superior scores, and they are, for the most part, happy with the schools. But I don't know anyone in our school specifically, and there is no chance of going to a different school, as the new super is very strict about boundaries.

I could see why you are totally tempted by the Montessori if your daughter seemed to click with it. If you can make it work, it could be totally worth it. Could you tell what it was that she liked about this particular school?

I think it was everything, first the classroom itself, which was open and airy, sun streaming in, clean and clear. There were live animals (birds, lizards). The teachers were young and pretty (my daughter likes that ) and very, very kind, gentle, and engaging. They seemed so enthusiastic about what they were going and about meeting dd and me. I mean, *I* wanted to stay and hang out there. It was physically and emotionally a nice place to be.

Private schools around here are like $12,000 - so it sounds like a deal to me!

*gasp* Wow!

[EFmom]

People give three reasons for low test scores:

1) The special ed scores are reflected in the scores (but isn't this the case everywhere?)
2) There are a lot of transient students in the schools, a lot of rentals that supposedly have such high turnover that there is instability in the schools. This doesn't really make sense to me, but it's the explanation given.
3) These lower income transient students generally don't have a parent home much, as the parents are spending a lot of time working to make ends meet, so the students don't have someone at home helping them get their homework done and, as a result, don't do well in school. (But if the school is doing a good enough job educating, homework shouldn't make or break a good student, right??)

Re #1, some schools do attract more special ed kids than others. The district where my dh teaches is known for its special ed program, and many people move there for that reason. They have a disproportionate number of special ed kids, and yes, it has a significant impact on the test scores.

#2 and #3 are the same issue. Parental involvement has a huge impact on academic achievement. Demographics, whether we like to acknowledge it or not, are the single biggest predictor of academic achievement. This has been demonstrated time and time again.

[thehippiemama]

Education is an area that I will not try to cut costs in. I will pay for anything our children need to ensure a well rounded education.

[msjd123]

Originally Posted by jazzharmony

Just FWIW, you can work toward bettering the public schools without your child having to suffer irreparable damage, to make a point.

I find this offensive as well. Irreparable damage?!?!? Give me a break. Human being are resilient by nature, so even if a situation isn't ideal, I hardly think it will cause irreperable damage. Sheesh.

Plus, I should point out that my husband and I are both public school teachers, and let me tell you, no one does this job if they don't enjoy it. The money, the bureaucracy, the working environment -- none of those is ideal. You just don't keep at this if you don't derive personal joy and satisfaction from working with kids.

Moreover, I disagree that you can work toward bettering the schools without sending your child there. When it comes to school managment, the biggest changes come from within. Sure, the state and the district lay the foundation for most of what we do, but school governance is handled communally by the administrators, teachers, and parents. Parents are members of our hiring committtees, our budget committee, our discipline committee, and sooooo much more. The administration often sets the tone for a school, but parents and teachers provide them with input. It's very much a community effort in which we're all working to improve the quality of our school. There's just no way we would give much heed to some random person whose child doesn't even attend our school.

ETA: Our daughter will definitely attend public schools, and we will use the money we would otherwise spend on private school tuition (and the money that we'll no longer be paying toward daycare/preschool) to save for her college education. DH and I feel very strongly about education being a lifelong investment, but on the parents' end, it is also an investment of time, committment, and support for the schools we have.

[lalaland42]

Originally Posted by EFmom

#2 and #3 are the same issue. Parental involvement has a huge impact on academic achievement. Demographics, whether we like to acknowledge it or not, are the single biggest predictor of academic achievement. This has been demonstrated time and time again.

The book Unequal Childhoods (written by a sociologist) talks about this. In fact, the book makes the claim that socioeconomic class has more to do with quality of education than race but there is a definite difference based on demographics.