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are schools failing our boys?  

Poll Results: Are schools failing our sons more than our daughters?

 
  • 66% (35)
    I think they are failing our sons more than our daughters
  • 24% (13)
    I do not think they are failing more boys than girls
  • 9% (5)
    Other
53 Total Votes  
post #1 of 30
Thread Starter 
It was report card time this week. My Ds came home with B's and C's, my DD? A's and B's. My other DD is homeschooled, but when she went to school, she got A's and B's.

I genuinely think there is no difference in intelligence levels between any of them. They are all bright kids. the difference is my DD are compliant and motivated to please adults (teachers), and my son, quietly, isn't.

Moreover, I have been on MDC for quite some time. Much of the time when parents post about school issues - they post about boys.

so my question: do you think schools in general are failing our boys, more than thye are failing our girls?

for clarity: I do not mean "failing" as in flunking - but as in : not meeting our sons needs

POll time!

Kathy
post #2 of 30
Thread Starter 
Guess I should answer my own poll, lol.

I do think schools are failing our sons.

I think they need the following:

-an acknowledgement, especially during early years, that many boys develop skills later than girls and that this is normal

-multiple ways of doing work that are not so writing focused

-an allowance for fiddling/moving around as long as it does not disrupt the class. Kinesthetic learning.

-male role models in the classroom

-on the non-academic side: I think many children (boys especially) are not given reasonable advice as to what to do in the event of a playground dispute. Saying "tell the teacher" or "say no/stop" does not always work. Children need more (including more supervison). I know this is a tough one for school to tackle, but our children deserve our help!
post #3 of 30
I teach sixth grade math, and I completely agree. I find that boys struggle a lot more within our current system. Girls seem to fit into a traditional classroom setting a lot easier.
post #4 of 30
I agree. That's one of my many reasons for homeschooling.
post #5 of 30
Yes. My nieces do great in school, both socially and academically. They go to a different school than DS, and I was asking them about boys fighting, and she said, oh, yeah, they do it all the time. Kids get hurt often. And the teacher can't do anything about it b/c she doesn't see it. From my nieces POV, it is expected and normal for boys to just be unsupervised and settle out pecking order among themselves.

I want more male teachers in my son's life! I think that would solve a lot of the problem.
post #6 of 30
Most Definatly - my DS started JK this year and he is doing fine as far as I'm concered - heck he is not even 4.5 and is reading simple books - writes his full name and most of the alphabet. He is doing stuff that we didn't do till grade one.
On the other hand his teacher regards him as the terror of the class room - he has his own agenda and that is how he lives - if he dosn't want to sit in circle he sits under his desk. If he dosn't want to dance in the gym then he is off playing with a ball. As far as I'm concerned this is NORMAL for a 4.5 yearold boy and have told his teacher so. If I didn't totaly suck as a teacher then i would homeschool but I can't - as must as the school system isn't working for him they are doing a better job then I could.
There was a interview with the author of a book on CBC back in January it was on The Current - I will see if I can find the podcast link, but If I can you can go to the CBC.ca website and search The Current back shows for it
post #7 of 30
I think our schools fail high energy learners. Mostly boys (but sometimes girls).

I also find it very funny that so much of our focus is on "sit still and listen" so that we can make our system of classroom management work. To the point where we fill our kids (boys mostly) up with drugs. Then later on we (as a nation) agonize over how our kids sit still and do not get enough exercise!
We spend a lot of time killing the natural move around urge and then complain when we have accomplished this.

Now this is not knocking teachers. I have taught. When I taught a student focused class (computer based math, each student at his/her level) I had a LOT of leeway. I could group social learners with each other. Bring in games/computer games for fun learners. Put loners by themselves. Teacher types with students and so on. And since it was all self-paced, if a student wanted to get up and walk around at any point it did not disturb the class at all. The student never missed anything. The program started where they were.

However, this doesn't fit standardized testing well at all. I couldn't give each student a standard pass for a standard math class. All the kids were working on their weak spots. Some kids started at grade 2 (seriously) and made it to grade 6. Some at grade 6 and made it to grade 11 (fractions/ratios were the weak spot almost always - hands on containers/blocks/putty worked well here). Well of course our charter school ended up getting heck from the powers on high because we didn't fit the NSLB bs. Well I could show improvement but I can't make a grade 2 student pass a grade 11 standardized test you know?

So I had to go to teaching to the test. Teaching all the kids the same thing out of the same book. This required everyone to be listening and doing exactly one thing at the same time. Like a factory.

Never mind that their natural cycles of energy may or may not make them on task at that crucial moment. Never mind that some of my students knew this material very well and were bored out of their skulls. Nope. I had to use the textbook that had worked so well for the middle class homogenous district to the south of us. It was hell and I quit teaching.
post #8 of 30
Here's an article from Newsweek from about a year ago:

"The Trouble With Boys."
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10965522...playmode/1098/

I think that the most interesting part of this article was that it said that 30 years ago it was girls that were "failing," and that educators took steps to rectify it. Now it seems like the pendulum has swung the complete opposite way. There is obviously no one way that works. Programs/schools/teachers that focus on the individual needs of each student (girl or boy) will have the best success. Finding programs like this are very hard to find, but they do exist.
post #9 of 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by FancyPants View Post
I also find it very funny that so much of our focus is on "sit still and listen" so that we can make our system of classroom management work. To the point where we fill our kids (boys mostly) up with drugs. Then later on we (as a nation) agonize over how our kids sit still and do not get enough exercise!
We spend a lot of time killing the natural move around urge and then complain when we have accomplished this.
Same is true with encouraging divergent, "out of the box," thinking. We spend so much time encouraging conformity in earlier elementary, and then wonder why kids in high school can't generate a single original creative thought. You reap what you sow.
post #10 of 30
Thread Starter 
Thanks for the article link - I read it, interesting stuff!

Kathy
post #11 of 30
Interesting thread! I've always thought that boys (and some girls too!) are at a disadvantage when asked to sit still and quiet at a desk all day completing worksheets and listening to a teacher talk, especially (in my mind) in the lower elementary grades. It is one big reason I'd like to start my boys out homeschooling so their learning doesn't have to take place in such a quiet and still manner, well unless they want it to. I feel when a child has a rough start in the early grades their natural love for learning becomes squashed and they begin to have feelings of inadequacy and hating school.
post #12 of 30
My dad teaches high school carpentry. He would tell the boys: you cannot come into my classroom unless you have your shirt tucked in and a belt. Can you imagine?! Kids who were used to having their boxers showing and pants 3x too big wearing a belt! But they did it, and they love him. Since he's a carpentry teacher, he gets the hard cases, too. But they do love him.

Anyway, he swears that Raising Cain is the best book ever, and that every female teacher should read it so they know how boys operate. I need to re-read it.

ETA: a link http://www.pbs.org/opb/raisingcain/
post #13 of 30
I am a 1st grade teacher with a more experienced co-teacher, and our class is boy heavy, but we seem to be doing well. For boys that are low readers, four are ELL, one likely dyslexic. Here's what REALLY helps boys learn in our room:

1. Work stations. The work stations are various reading manipulatives, that, while fun, also fall in line with the way male brains work. We have lots of reading puzzles, toys, charts, etc. They work well for everyone, but boys in particular learn from them. They work independently and have about 20-30 minutes with these.

2. Guided reading. In small groups, we discuss books at their reading level, with high interest books. It is social, and synergetic. And quick- long drawn out activities are not a good idea.

3. Saxon math. Straight forward, spiral taught, with plenty of manipulatives. The problems are to be solved, quickly, so they are not boring or meditative.

There is a general understanding that girls often learn faster, but boys do catch up. (Since girls physically grow and mature faster I find this believable.) I do think in certain circles boys get more leeway than girls, which may hurt learning. I can see in my classroom that the girls are generally trained to be sweet, while the boys get away with macho behavior and disrespect with a wink for their "spirit." (With girls that same "spirit" may get a spanking.)

Boys also do better with more structure and routines. They actually like drill sergeants who break everything down for them so they can follow step. It's why they love math, strong beat music, sports, etc. They feel strong and competent. They feel like they have a purpose. They don't care for nebulous, contemplative, unspoken atmosphere that works alright for girls.

I wish there were more male teachers, I really do.
Male teachers are often regarded as strict because they don't put up with crap- talking back, disregarding rules that others have to follow, disrespect to girls. But boys actually love that. Also, male teachers often don't nitpick on the small stuff with boys, which boys hate. Like handwriting that may not be perfect, or homework being on the wrong side of the folder.

Also, is our CULTURE failing our boys? Violent, gruesome television provides role models for boys. They are growing obese due to junk food and lack of exercise. Would they be able to sit more in the classroom if they got to exercise in the morning or in after-school sports? (Even though it's easier to turn on the tube.) Go into Barnes and Noble and most of the books will be geared to girls, not boys.

I think boys are being let down all around, not just the schools. We as a nation have to boycott things marketed to even young boys that hurt them (gangsta rap with X-rated lyrics, WWF brain-rotters, etc.) We need to give them back the ability to explore nature, and play sports. They need to learn how to be strong, decent males who would help an elderly person cross the street rather than mug them. They need to be fed real food, nothing belched from a dirty factory. Then they will start doing better in school.
post #14 of 30
I know my last post was long, but a father and I had a discussion that surprised me. He was mad with his son over his behavior. He reminded his boy that his younger brother "sits down and does his work like he's supposed to." As a matter of fact "the whole fourth grade sits down. What's going on in fifth grade?" I chatted with the dad and said boys just shouldn't sit down all the time. He looked at me weird. "I did. What, do they want a damn trampoline in the class room?"

This is a tough dad. But he had a point. Boys can't sit down like they should because they have too few physical outlets. This dad had hours in Puerto Rico running around, playing tag and all that when he was a kid. Boys are lucky if they get half an hour outside for recess nowadays (Rainy bad northeast weather prevents it most of the year.)

I really think that's the root of the problem here. At least one root.
post #15 of 30
I am voting "other" on this one. I do not think most schools meet the needs of the majority of children. Your daughter just happened to fit the mold better of the type of child that they cater to.

I don't think it's a gender thing as much as it is a personality thing. Most students seem to not want to go to school. That's something that needs to change - and quickly.

Matt
post #16 of 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by supervee View Post
My dad teaches high school carpentry. He would tell the boys: you cannot come into my classroom unless you have your shirt tucked in and a belt. Can you imagine?! Kids who were used to having their boxers showing and pants 3x too big wearing a belt! But they did it, and they love him. Since he's a carpentry teacher, he gets the hard cases, too. But they do love him.


ETA: a link http://www.pbs.org/opb/raisingcain/
Exactly! Was the shirt tuck in a safety issue? Girls find these kinds of rules stupid and arbitrary, but for men it is establishing boundaries and order. Boys actually respond to that more. Whereas girls love flexibility and cooperation, boys love order and clear, understandable rules. They don't respond to unspoken expectations like girls do.
post #17 of 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by kmeyrick View Post
Exactly! Was the shirt tuck in a safety issue?
It was partially safety--they had to take off rings and necklaces, too--but I think primarily he didn't like how messy it looked, and it helped him establish order on a simple level which radiated to other more important areas, like not being silly around saws.
post #18 of 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by kmeyrick View Post
Whereas girls love flexibility and cooperation, boys love order and clear, understandable rules. They don't respond to unspoken expectations like girls do.
Oops, sorry for another post on the same quote, but I did want to say I think this is a problem with the boys play-fighting at school. The adults won't lay down the rules, like: Do not touch, stop when someone is crying, no kicking. Black and white...I think they could operate within parameters if there were any. Instead, they have things like "we should be peaceful" or "we should respect others." Blah.
post #19 of 30
im not sure!! Im really not! For as many boys in my sons class that have difficulty, I see it in just as many girls!! There are as many girls in his class with inattention and the inability to stay focused like he has.....

OTH, I think my kids are comparably smart, but I know my dd will do better in school bc she is calmer and more likely to enjoy the wrote learning, writing, etc, while he would get bored. OTH, in real life, my ds is way more compliant than dd (at home and stuff). They are both compliant in school, its just harder for him in the learning category because of inattention.
post #20 of 30
80% of Ritalin users are American boys. And, somehow, a lot of those boys don't "need" their Ritalin during the summer.

(Maybe it's not the boys. Maybe it's the schools. And I say this as a teacher.)


With reading (especially in the upper grades) boys need more choice in what they are reading. They also need more high-action adventure stories, which is typically not what the (female) teacher chooses to have them read. I have a high school student who swore he'd never read anything for me--and now I have him absolutely hooked on reading Louis L'Amour stories.
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