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business of being born

post #1 of 15
Thread Starter 
anyone else not like this movie? here is a c&p of a post i wrote in another thread. i would like to hear from other birth professionals.

Quote:
blah. i watched it a few nights ago and i was NOT impressed. what is up with that midwife not wearing gloves? IMO that makes HB midwives look reallllllly bad. personally i really liked that midwife's style, and i practice a lot like her, but i would have liked to see some actual monitoring of the baby during labor, and had them talk about how HB midwives safeguard mom and baby. and the transfer at the end? the fact that the baby had undiagnosed IUGR was. . . .idk. i know that mom was seeing an OB at the beginning of her pg, and i am not trying to insinuate that the midwife was negligent, but the whole thing (no gloves, not showing any monitoring, the IUGR) to me just made HB midwives look unprofessional. i would also have liked to see a hospy midwife practicing normal birth. that would have been cool.

it could have been SO much better.
post #2 of 15
I liked it, for the most part, but I agree that it could've been so much better. From what I saw of the previews, I thought they were going to focus more on the families and how they arrived at their choice to have a homebirth. I noticed they did have extra footage on the DVD so stuff like that might be in there. I didn't watch all of it. But that's more of what I wanted to see, so that people understand that there are a lot of reasons why someone would choose a homebirth, not just because hospitals aren't the best place. I personally had a lot of reasons why: because of the hospitals, expense, because I didn't know when in labor I would've needed to go to the hospital (and also because I don't have a car), and, most importantly, because it was the best for my LO. I had a lot more reasons to add to that. People, IMO, need to understand that there are a lot of reasons to choose a homebirth and that they need to think about it for a long time and do a lot of research before making the choice. The information they gave, though, was a good introduction into homebirth, especially for a society that is so deeply intrenched in the idea that women go to the hospital to give birth.
post #3 of 15
I really, really liked the movie, and I hope very much that it inspires some more mainstream folks to think about their choices. I know that one of the moms from my playgroup who had a csection saw it and said "That's exactly what happened to me!" about the pit-epidural-pit cycle. IMO, if all the movie accomplishes is THAT, it's a good thing and a big deal. People need to know that the interventions they receive affect their birth outcomes.

I can't remember, is the gloveless catch in the water birth or land birth? Either way, yeah, it's sucky to show, but gloves in a water birth are a formality at best as far as protecting the midwife. I saw the movie with my SIL a med student and she didn't notice that, since I know the main concern is that medical professionals will see it and freak that midwives are so sloppy about universal precautions. Again, I'm not defending it...just saying.

IUGR can be tricky to diagnose, and if Abby Epstein's was a late onset IUGR it doesn't seem at all unreasonable that the midwife wouldn't have caught it yet.

I just feel like there are so many issues with birth that they couldn't possibly cover everything. In general it's an eye-opening, important film that I thoroughly enjoyed watching. Looking at what hospitals are truly like (where 99% of women birth) is an important way to open the doors of communication about homebirth.
post #4 of 15
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by AmieV View Post
I can't remember, is the gloveless catch in the water birth or land birth? Either way, yeah, it's sucky to show, but gloves in a water birth are a formality at best as far as protecting the midwife. I saw the movie with my SIL a med student and she didn't notice that, since I know the main concern is that medical professionals will see it and freak that midwives are so sloppy about universal precautions. Again, I'm not defending it...just saying.

IUGR can be tricky to diagnose, and if Abby Epstein's was a late onset IUGR it doesn't seem at all unreasonable that the midwife wouldn't have caught it yet.

I
nak

totally agree about the IUGR. i just think it "looks" bad, kwim?

both of the catches were bare handed. i agree that gloves don't do much to protect a MW in a waterbirth, but again, it does not look good! and IMO a parent should be the first one to touch a baby bareskinned. good bacteria and all that.

i think the movie just portrayed HB and HB midwives as touchy feely (not that that is a bad thing, but you know what i mean), and did not really explore the concrete realities of WHAT a homebirth entails, and WHY women and midwives choose homebirth.
post #5 of 15
I loved it. I've seen it probably 7 times and like it better every time I watch it (even though Abby kind of annoyed me).
post #6 of 15
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by SublimeBirthGirl View Post
I loved it. I've seen it probably 7 times and like it better every time I watch it (even though Abby kind of annoyed me).
what are your thoughts on the glove wearing and fetal monitoring?
post #7 of 15
Homemademomma,
What an interesting observation!
I never noticed that she does not wear gloves in the movie.

However I know Cara the midwife in the movie, I'm sure it was a deeply considered well thought out decision that she chooses not to wear gloves.

She is an extraordinary well trained CNM, she was graduated from the most conservative midwifery school Columbia University nursing/midwifery program. So it leads me to believe it is purposeful and with consent not to wear gloves in her relationship with her clients.
post #8 of 15
Thread Starter 
i just think that the purpose of this documentary was to bring a greater understanding of homebirth to the "mainstream" community. i DO NOT think the movie really served that purpose.


again, i practice a lot like the midwife in the movie. i personally would be very hesitant to catch without gloves (for many reasons) but i understand why a client might desire that. i also do not think she was negligent for not catching the IUGR. late onset IUGR is a tricky thing to catch. also i am sure she was monitoring the baby during labor, and i really appreciated her hands off technique after the birth. i am pretty sure i have said all this already. she looked like a pretty great midwife to me, but that is because i have an understanding of homebirth, and i know that there was alot going on that wasnt filmed, kwim? i would never want to cast doubt on this midwife. i am sure she is great.


my point is that if i werent already a homebirthing mother, and a midwife, i would NOT have been swayed by this movie, especially if i was concerned with the safety of homebirth.
post #9 of 15
I see your point more then i want to go into in public.

The general public and reviews in mainstream media has been overwhelmingly in love and supportive and moved by this movie and all thought it was an "eye opening " documentary about the birth industry.

So it accomplished it's purpose to have people think a new way about birth.

The movie was not made for any of us in the alternative birth community. I know this movie was not created with you or me in mind!

I see many flaws and they have been addressed by Rickki and Abbey when they attend the screening with the alternative birth community.
So that said I completely understand and believe how right this movie has been for the mainstream and they are benefiting from seeing it.
post #10 of 15
I was torn. I really liked Michel Odent's interviews. He got to the core of the issue beautifully and eloquently. I thought the way that the medical industry was shown was good and that the homebirth interviews were powerful. However, I agree that I don't think it'll have much of an impact. My biggest concern is that people will think that they can higher a CNM in a hospital and that'll be that. They've done their part. They'll get the best of both worlds. I think there is a lot more to the issues at hand than could have possibly been demonstrated in a film.

I wish there had been some DEMs rather than the one CNM doing homebirths because in most of the country, you're not going to find CNMs attending homebirths.
post #11 of 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by annakiss View Post
in most of the country, you're not going to find CNMs attending homebirths.
That's true.

I have a hard time thinking about how mainstream birthers will accept the movie -- I'm so far from that! -- but my mom attended it and found it really powerful. It opened a dialogue about her labor and birth with me.
post #12 of 15
Cool, I was afraid I may be the lone voice of dissent....

I agree that if the purpose of ANY documentary is to raise awareness, this accomplished it.

I remember being irritated with Cara for missing IUGR, but upon my second viewing-it was the DOCTOR who missed it. She had an ultrasound and the doctor siad "everything is right on target". And Ricki said to her, "you don't look very big, you look like six months..."

I generally felt like the movie wasn't very cohesive-it didn't drive home any particular point. Some interviews with experts, some personal birth videos; some facts-the WHO guy-and some feelings-Michel Odent. But generally a meandering path.

But it put home birth on the map. And it scared ACOG into a position statment.
post #13 of 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by homemademomma View Post
i just think that the purpose of this documentary was to bring a greater understanding of homebirth to the "mainstream" community. i DO NOT think the movie really served that purpose.

my point is that if i werent already a homebirthing mother, and a midwife, i would NOT have been swayed by this movie, especially if i was concerned with the safety of homebirth.
My feedback from the community around me (we had I think 7 screenings in my area, 3 of which my company hosted) says exactly the opposite. The feedback has been overwhelmingly positive, including leading women who had never even thought of having a natural birth, much less a homebirth, to really think about their options. I see your point about the gloves and monitoring but I disagree. I think the average woman isn't going to think that hard about those things. Even as a CBE and being trained as a doula, I didn't notice the lack of gloves. I think medical professionals are the most likely to notice that, and most mainstream birthing women are not medical professionals.

The midwife in the movie does a lot more testing than the ones near me do. I'm not much above a lay person when it comes to medical procedure but why would gloves be necessary in a woman in a monogamous relationship who's been tested for all those yucky catching things and who gives birth in the water? When a midwife has negative test results in her hands, and knows the woman well as midwives often do, and is catching a baby under water diluting everything, seems to me gloves would be no big deal.

I attended a hospital birth where dad caught and the CNM made him wear gloves. I thought it was ridiculous. Just the flip side of the coin.
post #14 of 15
I haven't actually see the movie, but my friends who have have also asked me about my midwife attended births, saying if they had known some of the information they probably would have chosen a midwife over a doctor. I heard a lot of disturbing comments about c-section rates being highest at 6 and 10pm.

You are observing with the keen eye of a midwife
post #15 of 15
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by SublimeBirthGirl View Post
My feedback from the community around me (we had I think 7 screenings in my area, 3 of which my company hosted) says exactly the opposite. The feedback has been overwhelmingly positive, including leading women who had never even thought of having a natural birth, much less a homebirth, to really think about their options. I see your point about the gloves and monitoring but I disagree. I think the average woman isn't going to think that hard about those things.

<snip>

I attended a hospital birth where dad caught and the CNM made him wear gloves. I thought it was ridiculous. Just the flip side of the coin.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dewi View Post

I see many flaws and they have been addressed by Rickki and Abbey when they attend the screening with the alternative birth community.
So that said I completely understand and believe how right this movie has been for the mainstream and they are benefiting from seeing it.

these posts were very helpful. i really understand it better now. thank you!
that is crazy about the CNM making the dad wear gloves! my dp caught both my kids barehanded.
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