Help me with DH and "its all about me"

[Michelle Renee]

I need help with hubbie - or maybe he is right. I dont know

I have IGT and a micro supply. Our first daughter went through FTT and was in a very bad place for a bit of time. We had to supplement, give what I pumped, and use donor milk. Vi never latched from me and screamed any time she was near my breast.

We have been blessed with Moms who help us with donor milk. I am due with my second baby the end of May. I was talking to hubbie about using an SNS this time when we were out and about.

He sighed and said "Michelle - I love you so much and this is all about you... Violet (DD, 23 months old) never wanted your (breast) and she is fine - she is securely attached, happy, playful and an amazing child"

I said "well fine - but BM is best"

He said "I agree - thats why I just went out and bought you a new deep freeze and we have 1500 ounces of donor milk in it - but whether or not its from you or not - doesnt matter - Violet is fine"

I was speechless because I wanted to nurse for MY bond with her. I still babywore and still cosleep - I just needed that feeling to hold her in my arms and feed Violet and I never had it - no matter what I did.

This time - I want to try for a relationship at the breast. Because I know I have IGT - and what to do - I can prevent aversion and FTT.

What do I say to Hubbie? For reference - DH is awesome - he is my best friend and not insensitive - he says things as he sees them but at the same time he will support me in what I do - whether its lug a huge pump around, feed the baby so I can pump - use a syringe to clean out an SNS - (all of which he has done in the past) I just need some understanding here.

[courtenay_e]

Knowing how crazy stressed you were when you quit pumping and just FED Vi...and how you felt AFTER you quit...what are your plans to pump this time? Are you going to feed with baby at breast w/SNS, and then pump for 20 minutes or until 3 minutes after the last drop of milk? ARe you planning to use breast compressions when the baby is nursing?

Are you planning to ONLY use the donor milk at the breast with the SNS, and NOT pump? Many women do this when they realize that it's just the closeness they want from breastfeeding. You KNOW the baby will be getting human milk. How does it make you feel to think that it isn't YOUR milk, at all, or in very small amounts? If it freaks you out that the baby may get NONE of your milk, then maybe you should choose specific times of day that you will pump after a feed, and leave it at that?

For instance, pump during the times of day that it will make the most difference to pump, like at night before you go to bed, and then first thing in the morning, when your supply will be higest? Your prolactin is highest at night, and stimulating that prolactin when it's levels are highest will give you the most bang for your buck in the way of production...and then you can assume that baby is getting some of your milk at the breast with SNS milk.

From what I've read/heard many mothers are able to produce more milk with each pregnancy, so, were you to nurse at the breast with donor milk in the SNS and using compression, you could assume that this baby would be getting more of YOUR milk than VI did...and just not worry about pumping, because if this baby is at your breast, she will be suckling, and that will provide the stimulation your breast needs...

Sorry this is rambling, but those are my thoughts as the kids run around screaming, my husband (who is "taking the day off") is walking around fielding work calls, and the cats are chasing each other willy nilly through the dining room...

Don't know that I answered your question of how to deal with your DH...but I guess you need to maybe do some work of your own and feel out how much you want the baby to get "as much of YOUR milk as possible" and how much you just want to "nurse your baby." You can certainly nurse your baby without the sleep depriving, crazy eyed, frustrating pumping around the clock that you did last time. But...if you want to see how much more milk you'd make this time around...perhaps you could set a limit...like, "I will pump after each feed for the first six weeks to help to set the milk supply" or, I will pump for the entire time I'm going to be on baby leave..." and then just nurse your baby?

I think doing the emotional work now, sorting out how you feel about it wayyy deep down, and then, if he's as amenable as you say, lay it out for your DH, might be the best deal. If it really IS important for you to do the pumping as long as you can handle it, then DO IT. If it makes you feel better to do it for a finite amount of time, especially as you KNOW that you'll have donor milk, then perhaps that's the best fit for your family.

I think that you need to realize that you are honestly in the minority of women, that you have put this much thought and effort into your baby getting human milk, Michelle_Renee! You are allowed to want to feel connected to your baby, and however you need to do that, I think it is a valid need.

[boheime]

I so understand what you are going through. Having dealt with (and somewhat accepted) my supply issues with ds1, I was prepared for supply issues with dd. I wasn't prepared for her own issues. I kept at it and finally had her latching on all the time with Lact-Aids and off of finger feeding by 6 months of age (at 3 1/2 years, she only nurses every week or so). I also pumped with my first two to help maintain my meager supply. That was so stressful. My breastfeeding experience with ds2 has been so different. I haven't pumped at all. I use LAs and he gets what he gets and we have a lovely nursing relationship. Before he was born, I said I wasn't going to pump unless I absolutely had to. I have tried not to obsess or count ounces of supplement, but old habits are hard to break.

My supply has increased each time. I made 33% of ds1's needs, 40% of dd's, and now 45% of ds2's. My husband is also very supportive, but he just doesn't get it. I don't think you can unless you have been through it. I basically just told him that this is what I needed to so and I needed him to support me with it. He said okay and has continued to be supportive despite not truly understanding.

[Steph1]

I totally get what you are talking about. Although I was all about making the most milk I could, the relationship was the thing for me. And I got it! He recently weaned at 9+mos, and I was sad when he did, but extremely grateful that we got that far. I loved nursing, and would've continued indefinitely. But it can be difficult to keep a LO interested when you have low supply, at least for us. I'm not sure DH completely understood, although he was supportive. Then again, I'm not sure a man can ever completely understand a nursing bond. (I don't mean that in a negative or sexist fashion at all.)

FWIW, I did do some pumping, but I was not as stressed out about it as I was before. I did it when I could, but I figured that if I had him latched with or without the SNS at the great majority of feedings then he was giving me plenty of stimulation. I did pump when I returned to work of course, so b/c I nursed this baby longer, I did pump more in the overall scheme of things. But I did not get into the mindset of "nurse, bottle-feed, pump" every single freakin' feeding. It's what made me quit trying to nurse DS2 at 3 wks old! It feels so wrong to put down a baby to pump. It's like bonding with the machine rather than the baby.

Oh, another note, I did not use the SNS exclusively, I used it for 1/2 his supplement, then bottle-fed the rest. Luckily, he went back and forth btwn breast and bottle pretty well.

Good luck!

[MaryJaneLouise]

I agree that you need to sort out your own feelings & opinions about this issue first.

I think this article is really interesting & helps to explain the importance of the mechanics of at least partially feeding at the breast. If this matches with your feelings, you could use this to help explain one more reason why you want to at least partial BF. He might be more willing to help with the heavy work of not-just-bottlefeeding (donor milk), if he could understand how important the physical mechanics of BFing are

WARNING: THE SLIDE SHOW IS NOT FOR THE SQUEAMISH. CONTAINS PICTURES OF INFANT CADAVERS (AUTOPSIES)

http://www.brianpalmerdds.com/bfing_import.htm

[Michelle Renee]

[QUOTE=courtenay_e;10733406]Knowing how crazy stressed you were when you quit pumping and just FED Vi...and how you felt AFTER you quit...what are your plans to pump this time? Are you going to feed with baby at breast w/SNS, and then pump for 20 minutes or until 3 minutes after the last drop of milk? ARe you planning to use breast compressions when the baby is nursing?



Last time - I pumped for 10 minutes. I stopped getting milk after about 5 minutes. So my LC said dont pump for longer than 10. I dont even know how Ill handle it - I guess feed and then pump. I dont even know what I should do. I never had the experience of latching to get any stimulation.

I do know that I always got the most milk my first pumping of the day but Im not sure about the other times. Most of the time I got 10-12 mls each side. But the first pump I got 15-20 ml's.


How does it make you feel to think that it isn't YOUR milk, at all, or in very small amounts? If it freaks you out that the baby may get NONE of your milk, then maybe you should choose specific times of day that you will pump after a feed, and leave it at that?

Im okay with donor milk. Jeolous sometimes - angry with myself and sometimes still angry that no one "told me" this was or could happen. I really bought into the idea that everyone could BF. I went to LLL, I had very militant ideas and I heard of the 5% who couldnt nurse and even that I doubted - and then there I was. Dumbfounded. Even when I had the womanly art of breastfeeding and I was trying to look in the index for what IGT was - no information. I just didnt know. Information on nursing the sleepy baby, information for skin to skin time, nursing on demand - but nothing for when your milk just does NOT come in. I still wish I would have known and now I do. This is good.



From what I've read/heard many mothers are able to produce more milk with each pregnancy, so, were you to nurse at the breast with donor milk in the SNS and using compression, you could assume that this baby would be getting more of YOUR milk than VI did...and just not worry about pumping, because if this baby is at your breast, she will be suckling, and that will provide the stimulation your breast needs...


The compressions honestly I dont understand - I tried doing them with Vi as if to milk my breasts down and I never got anything with them - even when I pumped. Ill try again though.


Sorry this is rambling, but those are my thoughts as the kids run around screaming, my husband (who is "taking the day off") is walking around fielding work calls, and the cats are chasing each other willy nilly through the dining room...


perhaps you could set a limit...like, "I will pump after each feed for the first six weeks to help to set the milk supply" or, I will pump for the entire time I'm going to be on baby leave..." and then just nurse your baby?


Im fortunate to have my summer. My body and my husband worked well that. I told him I wanted my summer with the baby (Im a teacher) and being due May 26 is helping with that. Last time - my limits kept going longer - I kept waiting for something to change. The latest supplement, the latest herb - if I just kept at it something would change and I get a supply. It wasnt until at 7 months - my milk turned blue and the amount of pumping was effecting my job - that I stopped. And I hurt for a long time. At one point, I felt Vi wasnt doing well without mamma's milk (before we had the donor milk) and I was going to try to relactate. This time I need to be realistic and fair to everyone in my family.

I waited 5 weeks before I gave Violet a bottle. It was constant battle of a high palette and a weak suck and my drive to latch her on and avoid nipple confusion. So we suck trained her, did thumb feedings, a syringe to feed her and finally at the end of my rope - my LC gave us a haberman. Im glad she did - I got so I didnt want to hold Violet. Once I had the haberman, it was HEAVEN. I could finally hold and rock her without shoving something at her. I need to find a place with new baby that I can nurse with an SNS and give myself permission to give a bottle. Not at day one but I dont think that waiting 5 weeks of me not holding her during a feeding was good for us. I used to sit indian style, her in a boppy so I could have both hands and trying to do all the finger feedings etc.


I think doing the emotional work now, sorting out how you feel about it wayyy deep down, and then, if he's as amenable as you say, lay it out for your DH, might be the best deal. If it really IS important for you to do the pumping as long as you can handle it, then DO IT. If it makes you feel better to do it for a finite amount of time, especially as you KNOW that you'll have donor milk, then perhaps that's the best fit for your family.


Thanks folks!
I appreciate it.
I really do - I do have grief. And a lot of it is needing to forgive myself. When you hold a limp baby in your arms who is grey and her cries are so dry - and you are holding out to not supplement because you think its best- its really hard. Now I know - feed the baby. Always feed the baby. And I have an amazing supply of donor milk to help me do this.

[FREEmom1120]

Have you considered talking to a counselor to help get your feelings out on the table about this beforehand (before the postpartum hormone insanity! ). I was in touch with a counselor when I had supply issues and it helped tremendously. She helped me step back and look at a bigger picture than I was able to see at the time.

I believe wholeheartedly in the bond nursing creates. But no one will ever convince me that a mom who bottlefeeds for whatever reason is any less bonded to her baby if she is intentional about making that time special between her and her baby; and also finding other ways to bond.

In fact I think there was a mom who posted on a thread recently in LWaB who bottlefed ebm to her first and was nursing her 2nd. She said the bond was the same. I was happy to hear that.

And honestly, I was a person whose desire to breastfeed and get breastmilk into my baby kept me from bonding with her for far too long.

But you have to figure out what is going to work for YOU and YOUR family.

I think you're brave.

[EllaBellaBaby]

Well, m'dear...

You know I understand this to a very deep degree. And I respect you totally and agree with everyone who has said you are brave and amazing. Is it all about you? *Shrug* maybe. But as long as the baby is being fed, that's ok, too. You don't need to ask anyone permission for your feelings. Trying counts. It counts HUGE. This baby will get donor milk, your milk, formula...all of which she'll need. But more than anything else, she needs YOU and you need HER. Believe me when I tell you that you can enjoy and love your baby JUST AS MUCH by holding her and snuggling her and bottle feeding her as you can with your boob in her mouth. It's not all or nothing.

I think you need to talk to the local LLL leaders around here and get a recommendation for not just a LC but for a women's counselor who helps women dealing with the grieving process of mourning an unsuccessful breastfeeding experience. Not all counselors are equipped for all problems, YWIM? I think that you need to really deal with all this stuff beforehand and get as much perspective and some useful boundaries at least forming in your mind so that you aren't (constantly) agonizing over this or feeling like you are shortchanging Violet or DH...or yourself, for that matter! You are SUCH an awesome, amazing Mama. I know this first hand. Your children are so lucky and blessed that they have come to you and the space you are creating for them in this life.

Take the knowledge you have now- all the things you didn't know then, but now you do- and make the best start you can. But keep things flexible. The goal, in the long run, should be to bond with, nurture, nourish and love your new daughter. She will love you just as much at the bottle as she will at the breast....I promise. It will all be so different this time around, I promise. You will have Violet, big sistah supreme, this time you have a tribe and a village around you. Enjoy your PG, enjoy your husband, enjoy your baby, enjoy your freezer full of milk and let yourself feel whatever you need to feel along the way. Feeding your child involves feeding the spirit as well.

I know you, I know your medical and personal history, Mama- and I just wish that all the amazing successes and triumphs you have made to get this far in your life and do all that you've done when no one thought you ever could- I wish you would let THOSE victories define you as much as you seem to need this BFing issue to. Because I honestly don't know how you can take a true inventory of all you've overcome and feel like a failure at ANYTHING. ((((hugs)))))

Love your guts.