Has society demeaned the 'natural role' of mothering?

[LifeIsBeautiful]

My son is 2 months old and in Canada we get pretty much a year of maternity leave with 55% of our wages. Anyway, I always intended on being a career woman and thought it'd be a breeze to juggle both. Unfortunately, what I learnt about parenting was from the media and television which is much different than reality. In countless television shows, woman are portrayed as being able to 'do it all'... be succesful business woman and great mothers. I do not feel able to do both, I am an extremely dedicated person (I like to think) so it would be not in my best interest to work my ass off in both areas...

Do you think that the 'home maker' has become less admirable as a human being than the 'career woman'? Due partly because of the media and the industrial revolution? Has the feminist movement preached so much about equality to men, that we are begininng to lose our identity as primarily maternal figures? How come society views a woman who is career oriented, driven and financialy succesful different and maybe even better than a woman that is maternal, feminine and natural? How come in highschool we are taught mathematics, history and science but not things like cooking, family science and managing children? I feel this leads woman to feel very conflicted and gives us a sence of 'identity crisis' when we have our first child. Discuss!

[hotmamacita]

I DO think society has demeaned the 'natural role' of mothering. It makes me angry and sad.

But rather than point the blame at movements, or individual women, I have chosen to just live in freedom in my desire to care for my kids and all the very real and very hard struggles it brings. I also try to encourage other mothers when I can.

[zinemama]

Originally Posted by LifeIsBeautiful

Has the feminist movement preached so much about equality to men, that we are begininng to lose our identity as primarily maternal figures?

I just want to address this point. Please, please, please, let's not let the answer to the OP's sincere question be another discussion of how feminism has been bad for motherhood.

Feminism has been good for motherhood. Thanks to feminism, we mothers have access to knowledge about our bodies that used to be restricted to medical professionals. We can choose how to birth, and how many children we want. We have birth control. We are able to have custody of our children after divorce, we have the right to our own bank accounts, we are able to vote, own property and enter countless professions that were once closed to us, enabling us to support our children financially. Thanks to feminism, we can raise our daughters to have more options in life than women in any other point in history.

Now, have our societal structures changed along with our options and expectations? No. We still have a culture of work based on the idea that workers have someone at home taking care of kids, old folks, errands, cooking, etc. We have a system that doesn't really acknowledge that people (men and women) have families and need to care for them.

Thus, when women (or men for that matter) try to "have it all" they find it very difficult. This is not the fault of feminism.

Although mothering kids at home is not particularly valued by "society," this is really nothing new. Back when it was one of a very few options (for those who could afford it), it wasn't particularly valued, either.

What it comes down to is, we have a culture that values paid work over unpaid work. This has always been the case, and again, feminism is not responsible for it. Now that women have more access to well-paid work, our other options (mothering at home) can seem less desirable than they were when those who did it had no other choice.

As a sahm, I never had an identity crisis. But what I do have is a deep disappointment that our society is set up the way it is. In an ideal world (or hey, in Sweden) both dh and I would be able to work part-time, so we could both better balance our desire to parent and to do other meaningful work. But without universal health care, someone's got to have that full-time job.

[LifeIsBeautiful]

ahhh i didnt want to discuss feminism but oh well, thanks for your input. very insightful.

[hotmamacita]

Originally Posted by LifeIsBeautiful

ahhh i didnt want to discuss feminism but oh well, thanks for your input. very insightful.

FWIW, imo your original post clearly invited such a discussion.

Do you think that the 'home maker' has become less admirable as a human being than the 'career woman'? Due partly because of the media, the industrial revolution and the feminist movement? Has the feminist movement preached so much about equality to men, that we are begininng to lose our identity as primarily maternal figures? How come society views a woman who is career oriented, driven and financialy succesful different and maybe even better than a woman that is maternal, feminine and natural? How come in highschool we are taught mathematics, history and science but not things like cooking, family science and managing children? I feel this leads woman to feel very conflicted and gives us a sence of 'identity crisis' when we have our first child.

[diamond lil]

After reading The Mommy Myth: The Idealization of Motherhood and How It Has Undermined All Women, by Susan Douglas and Meredith Michales, I'm pretty much convinced that women are responsible for the demeaned role of motherhood. I see it everywhere: women constantly criticising each other's parenting choices, even on this board.

We can't blame society as a whole, although I seriously believe the portrayl of mothers in pop culture i.e. movies, TV shows, commercialism, etc. has a good deal to do with the problem. Women are just too critical of each other. We justify our own choices by pointing out the "bad" mothers to make ourselves feel good.

[LifeIsBeautiful]

okay, well it's just that feminism is such a broad issue. i was really trying to just talk about our society's impact on mothering without putting labels on things... feminism, what is that anyway?

[zinemama]

Wow, diamond lil - I took a very different message from The Mommy Myth. I thought the book made an excellent case for media potrayals of motherhood - not individual women - being responsible for mothers being held to impossible standards these days.

[LifeIsBeautiful]

*******I am deleting the word feminism so as not to start a debate on feminism, I want to have a discussion but no debate and the meaning of feminism is debateable*********

[zinemama]

I really don't think you can have a discussion of mothers and society without acknowledging the impact and existence of feminism. I don't understand why you'd even want to.

[swimswamswum]

Originally Posted by zinemama

Wow, diamond lil - I took a very different message from The Mommy Myth. I thought the book made an excellent case for media potrayals of motherhood - not individual women - being responsible for mothers being held to impossible standards these days.

: I thought they made some excellent points about the role of capitalism and consumerism as well.

[aprons_and_acorns]

Originally Posted by zinemama

I just want to address this point. Please, please, please, let's not let the answer to the OP's sincere question be another discussion of how feminism has been bad for motherhood.

Feminism has been good for motherhood. Thanks to feminism, we mothers have access to knowledge about our bodies that used to be restricted to medical professionals. We can choose how to birth, and how many children we want. We have birth control. We are able to have custody of our children after divorce, we have the right to our own bank accounts, we are able to vote, own property and enter countless professions that were once closed to us, enabling us to support our children financially. Thanks to feminism, we can raise our daughters to have more options in life than women in any other point in history.

Now, have our societal structures changed along with our options and expectations? No. We still have a culture of work based on the idea that workers have someone at home taking care of kids, old folks, errands, cooking, etc. We have a system that doesn't really acknowledge that people (men and women) have families and need to care for them.

Thus, when women (or men for that matter) try to "have it all" they find it very difficult. This is not the fault of feminism.

Although mothering kids at home is not particularly valued by "society," this is really nothing new. Back when it was one of a very few options (for those who could afford it), it wasn't particularly valued, either.

What it comes down to is, we have a culture that values paid work over unpaid work. This has always been the case, and again, feminism is not responsible for it. Now that women have more access to well-paid work, our other options (mothering at home) can seem less desirable than they were when those who did it had no other choice.

As a sahm, I never had an identity crisis. But what I do have is a deep disappointment that our society is set up the way it is. In an ideal world (or hey, in Sweden) both dh and I would be able to work part-time, so we could both better balance our desire to parent and to do other meaningful work. But without universal health care, someone's got to have that full-time job.

great post, zinemama!

And to the OP, I can really relate to what you're saying about planning on balancing family and career, but then not feeling like you (personal you, not general) are able to "have it all" in the way we see so often in the media. I am far from lazy, but I really don't see how that would be possible for me right now in any fullfilling way. So I'm SAH mothering and sometimes I struggle with that choice.

[LifeIsBeautiful]

Originally Posted by zinemama

I really don't think you can have a discussion of mothers and society without acknowledging the impact and existence of feminism. I don't understand why you'd even want to.

because, quite frankly i have never read about feminism and can not tell you what it means. maybe you can help me in understanding by telling me what the true definition of femnism is? is a feminist someone who believes in equal opportunity? does a feminist believe that men and woman are equal in all aspects? does a feminist believe woman therefor should act like men in order to prove equality?

[GooeyRN]

Since there is now a ton of daycare centers it seems like we are expected to drop off the kids, make $, pick them up, make dinner, and have some family time, and put the kids to bed so mom and dad can have free time together. It seems so simple when you write it out. Since it all looks so pretty on paper, I think it makes us SAHM'S look lazy to society. We aren't contributing financially, so we have less worth. Some women do well with the balancing act. But it cant be easy. How are you supposed to do the shopping, get the house cleaned, laundry done, dr's appts, and have time left to really play with your kids? How does mom get ANY time to herself? It seems like we are expected to drop them at daycare so they can do their playing and learning there. (I am so not bashing daycare at all, it is a great thing for many children IMO) I guess society thinks that anyone can play with, teach, and care for children. So, why not pay to have someone do those things for you while mom can go work and also contribute financially. It seems like $ is so important to society now a days. Yes, money is needed for housing, good, clothing, etc but I am talking about the whole keeping up with the Joneses. So send mom to work so you can get the large plasma tv, new ipod, laptops for each family member, new or lightly used cars, etc. The idea that stuff is more important than children being with their mom.

People look at me like I am nuts b/c I choose to stay home. I have decent earning power and many think I am doing wrong by not working to give my kids more stuff.

[slymamato3]

Originally Posted by hotmamacita

I DO think society has demeaned the 'natural role' of mothering. It makes me angry and sad.But rather than point the blame at movements, or individual women, I have chosen to just live in freedom in my desire to care for my kids and all the very real and very hard struggles it brings. I also try to encourage other mothers when I can.

Originally Posted by aprons_and_acorns

great post, zinemama!

And to the OP, I can really relate to what you're saying about planning on balancing family and career, but then not feeling like you (personal you, not general) are able to "have it all" in the way we see so often in the media. I am far from lazy, but I really don't see how that would be possible for me right now in any fullfilling way. So I'm SAH mothering and sometimes I struggle with that choice.

Originally Posted by LifeIsBeautiful

because, quite frankly i have never read about feminism and can not tell you what it means. maybe you can help me in understanding by telling me what the true definition of femnism is? is a feminist someone who believes in equal opportunity? does a feminist believe that men and woman are equal in all aspects? does a feminist believe woman therefor should act like men in order to prove equality?

google feminism...I am sure personally it means many different things to different people. I hope you can find some balance. I relate to those struggles

[Azuralea]

Originally Posted by LifeIsBeautiful

How come society views a woman who is career oriented, driven and financialy succesful different and maybe even better than a woman that is maternal, feminine and natural?

I disagree with your basic premise that "career oriented, driven and financially successful" is opposite to and incompatible with "maternal, feminine and natural."

[BeanyMama]

Originally Posted by LifeIsBeautiful

Do you think that the 'home maker' has become less admirable as a human being than the 'career woman'? Due partly because of the media and the industrial revolution? Has the feminist movement preached so much about equality to men, that we are begininng to lose our identity as primarily maternal figures? How come society views a woman who is career oriented, driven and financialy succesful different and maybe even better than a woman that is maternal, feminine and natural? How come in highschool we are taught mathematics, history and science but not things like cooking, family science and managing children? I feel this leads woman to feel very conflicted and gives us a sence of 'identity crisis' when we have our first child. Discuss!

I think you have some great points. That's all

[bczmama]

"Society views a woman who is career oriented, driven and financialy succesful different and maybe even better than a woman that is maternal, feminine and natural? How come in highschool we are taught mathematics, history and science but not things like cooking, family science and managing children?"

Why do you assume being career oriented or financially successful not "natural" for a woman? Why is it not feminine or maternal? Some would say that making sure your child is fed, has shelter and medical care is pretty darn maternal.

In my high school a class in the domestic arts were mandatory for graduation, so I'm not sure why you're saying that it is not taught.

"I feel this leads woman to feel very conflicted and gives us a sence of 'identity crisis' when we have our first child."

You know -- choice is hard. In some ways having options, and having to choose among them can be almost as difficult as having no choice at all. However, I'm not willing to give up my right to chose my future (whether as a WAHM or SAHM) so that some women feel less conflicted about their own choices. No matter how hard or difficult making that choice is -- it is always better than having no other options.

"that we are begininng to lose our identity as primarily maternal figures"

What about women who don't have or don't want to have children? They are never "primarily maternal figures". If "maternal" is supposed to be the core of every woman, are such women failures?

[Amys1st]

Sadly the media and the way it portrays having it all to both men and women is how many people learned their roles.

Way back in the 80s for those of us old enough to remember the commercial with the attractive woman who could "bring home the bacon, fry it up in a pan" and she could work to 5 oclock & come home to read you....." and she was also a great "partner" to her husband by what the commercial said. Does anyone even remember the product she was selling because she was a womannnnnnnnnn.

Well it still sells today. Have you watched Lipstick jungle or Cashmere Mafia where 2 of the main characters have a family and very high power careers. They also have time in between their family and high power careers to also meet for coffee, have chocolates at the end of the show, travel, be nasty to other women in their path, and have beautiful wardrobes, lunch and dine together. They do more getting together on this show and meeting on a dime in an episode than I do in 6 weeks with my close friends and I do not have a high powered career but a high demanding mommy job!! So its hollywood, I love to watch these shows and get a laugh. Its fiction!!

Remember Claire Huxtable on the Cosby show. He was an OB and she was an attorney. Had 5 kids in the mix and they all dressed pretty darn good! This is all fiction.

So no society has not, the media has. Why are reality shows so popular now? They are also acted out to a point as well. I invite you to spend some time at my house to show you natural parenting. You might be disapointed though because I make mistakes daily, do not have it all and live pretty real! I guess I am a human mom not invented by an ad agency or by hollywood.

[LifeIsBeautiful]

Amys1st, I too watch those shows and know how far from reality they are but it is meant to be funny and lighthearted like entertainment should be. You have grasped my point completely, for a woman who has not been around babies or has had friends with children i think it is just so misleading to make her believe it is that easy. Now, some people here can argue every little inconsitancy in my wording but I don't care. I don't have the energy to debate so I'm not going to go back and forth, it was simply a thought I had for discussion. I do not want to debate about definitions or anything.


bczama, im not going to reply really because you are entitled to your opinion, i just think you have gotten the wrong impression of my post.

Azuralea, I never said it was opposite. You just assumed that. Are you trying to say that a woman can be all of those qualities I listed? If so, I don't disagree... I never disagreed that a woman could be.

And no, I dont want to google feminism sorry. I asked someone here to tell me what it means but it seems to be an elusive word that nobody can define which is why I didn't like including it. That's all. Thanks.