Bullies in preschool?

[littlehawksmom]

I thought I wouldn't have to deal with this for a while. Actually I thought we would be homeschooling, but that is another thread.

My ds (almost 5) told me that a kid in his class was pushing him and telling him "you ain't tough". This has happened a few times. This kid is a bit of a handful at school-swearing, talking back, saying 'no' to simple requests (things my ds does at home, not at school). He also is at school every day for 7am to 5pm and is part of a program that does home visits, etc. I expained this ds he seemed to understand that the kid is probably frustrated.

I am wondering how to deal iwth this and how to help ds deal with it.

In a moment of weakness I told him to say aint isn't a word and that he can at least speak properly.: I will make sure to talk to him in the morning and tell him that I made a mistake and tell him why and why that would be a not so good idea.

Dh said he could say that he is as tough as he needs to be. Ds thought he should say that he is indeed tough because he hit his hand with a hammer once.

I am feeling pretty bad about my comment, though and I hope I can remedy that. I also told him that he could say, "I don't like to be treated/talked to like that."

Any better ideas?

[mommy68]

Have you talked with his teacher yet? Since it's only preschool I would say that would be a good place to start. She can then talk to his parents if needed and she can definitely keep an eye on things while they are in class together to see if she notices any bad behavior going on. She may not be aware that it is happening.

Is this a public school or daycare environment? You mentioned the other child (or is it your child?) is there all day long for ten hours per day, just curious. If so, then you will come to find that when dealing with kids in public school that you will run in to all kinds of people. That's one reason my kids have only attended private school. That way I know the people who go there are paying for their child's education like I am and they are likely to be good people, not always, but usually. I know that's not an option for everyone and I'm not pushing the idea of private school. I'm just saying that public schools have kids of all kinds in them and some parents are very bad to their kids and it rubs off on the child and they in turn treat other children badly.

[littlehawksmom]

I wish I could send ds to private school. I wish I could homeschool him, but he needs more than I can give and honestly I just need a break from him sometimes.
Anyway, there is no private school within 40 miles (and a high mountain pass ) from here. I even did an extraordinary amount of work trying to start one, but had to force myself to realize that no one could or cared to afford it, even with a non-profit bringing in grants to keep costs down. Hopefully the schooling will shift here in the future. I hope to be part of that change and work.
Anyway, in the meantime, ds just decided after more talking with me that saying nothing would be the best idea.

[hhurd]

Originally Posted by mommy68

you will come to find that when dealing with kids in public school that you will run in to all kinds of people. That's one reason my kids have only attended private school. That way I know the people who go there are paying for their child's education like I am and they are likely to be good people...I'm just saying that public schools have kids of all kinds in them and some parents are very bad to their kids and it rubs off on the child and they in turn treat other children badly.

OT, I know.

First, it really sound like you're equating the ability to afford private school with a family being "good people." Which would mean families who can't afford private school are apt to be less good people? Goodness = the ability to pay for expensive things? Rich parents are less likely to be "bad" to their kids, and the less wealthy are more likely to treat their children badly?

Yikes. Or maybe I'm reading that the wrong way.

Second, I believe the opportunity for my child to interact with "all kinds of people," and not just affluent people, to be an important part of his education.

[philomom]

Eww, the remark about private school made me feel bad. Just because you and the other parents are paying hard earned money for schooling does not mean they have better students, or that your kids are better. All schools have some problem kids and problem families... you just have to know when to make things an issue and when not to.

[Kirsten]

hhurd, I read it the same way you did.

Originally Posted by mommy68

Have you talked with his teacher yet? She can then talk to his parents if needed.

I'd worry that talking to the parents may cause the child to be disciplined - for what my guess would be something that has been said to him. At home?

Originally Posted by mommy68

you will come to find that when dealing with kids in public school that you will run in to all kinds of people. That's one reason my kids have only attended private school. That way I know the people who go there are paying for their child's education like I am and they are likely to be good people, not always, but usually.

I am sad to read that this is your opinion... My kids have attended public and private schools, and one of the things I miss about public is the diversity in all possible ways. I want my kids to run into "all kinds of people". One of the down sides of private is the worry that people will think I have the mindset of the quote above.

[kmeyrick]

While bullies crop up anywhere, at least there's a more dire consequence in private schools. You CAN get expelled. Public schools have a zero tolerance policy but what are they going to do? They can hardly ever expell, and there are more restrictions on suspension. But there are plenty of bullies in private schools, and I don't know that home-schooling is the answer to it. There are bullies in the adult world too, and you can't hide from that. Bully avoidance shouldn't be a reason to homeschool.

I think that you need to discuss this with the teacher, so she can document it. This is for the bully's sake, too. More documentation puts him on a path for more early intervention and treatment. You can also turn the heat up on the system. Often a teacher's pleas will fall on deaf ears. You get parents in on it and it may grease the wheels more.

Your son needs to learn how to say firmly "You are bullying me. Stop it. I will not play with you when you're mean. I going to the teacher." Etc, etc. Do not, please, do not, tell your son to hit him back. So many people do that and it's hardly ever good. Think about it- you would be assuming that your son will win the fight and the bully will learn a lesson. Neither happens, in the real world. You can ask that your son be changed to another class, but I think the answer for society in general is to do what it takes to reform the bully while he's a baby, instead of letting him grow into a real problem.

[marybethorama]

Originally Posted by mommy68

If so, then you will come to find that when dealing with kids in public school that you will run in to all kinds of people. That's one reason my kids have only attended private school. That way I know the people who go there are paying for their child's education like I am and they are likely to be good people, not always, but usually.

I really have to disagree here. My kids do go to private school and it is a lovely school BUT it's not perfect and there are kids who have behavioral problems. There may be a lot less bullying than public schools but it does happen. There is no guarantee.

Also I know some of the kids who go to the local Montessori school which is very expensive and caters to the families with the highest incomes and TBH some of the kids are bullies and also IMO brats. One of the reasons I never considered Montessori is that I didn't want to have to deal with those kids.

IME bullying is not just done by public school kids from disadvantaged backgrounds. In fact a good friend of mine had a terrible experience with her kids being bullied at a crunchy homeschooling group.

[karne]

Originally Posted by mommy68

Have you talked with his teacher yet? Since it's only preschool I would say that would be a good place to start. She can then talk to his parents if needed and she can definitely keep an eye on things while they are in class together to see if she notices any bad behavior going on. She may not be aware that it is happening.

Is this a public school or daycare environment? You mentioned the other child (or is it your child?) is there all day long for ten hours per day, just curious. If so, then you will come to find that when dealing with kids in public school that you will run in to all kinds of people. That's one reason my kids have only attended private school. That way I know the people who go there are paying for their child's education like I am and they are likely to be good people, not always, but usually. I know that's not an option for everyone and I'm not pushing the idea of private school. I'm just saying that public schools have kids of all kinds in them and some parents are very bad to their kids and it rubs off on the child and they in turn treat other children badly.

I know there's alot of feedback going on here with this particular comment, but I also feel that I need to call out when I hear such statements. My child's very expensive private school had the WORST bullying problem, that went completely unchecked, the kids parroted unbelivably elitist statements, and frankly there is a pretty negative view of these kids and the behaviors in the community. In the pub. school we have encountered NONE of this, so I feel strongly that one should be careful about making pub/private school blanket statements.

[bczmama]

"IME bullying is not just done by public school kids from disadvantaged backgrounds."

I think that's an overcorrection to the original private school comment. IME bullying crops up in all economic brackets, amongst "nice" and not so "nice" families. For example, the two worst bullies in my grade -- one was the son of an upper income family, father a dr. and a SAHM, with really nice sibs and one was from the low income housing that fed into my elementary school.

[delphiniumpansy]

Originally Posted by philomom

Eww, the remark about private school made me feel bad. Just because you and the other parents are paying hard earned money for schooling does not mean they have better students, or that your kids are better. All schools have some problem kids and problem families... you just have to know when to make things an issue and when not to.

I used to teach in private schools that had kids who were behavior problems in the public schools. The parents had pulled them and put them in private school rather than deal with working with the schools to improve the kids' behavior. In private school, they could say "we are not paying you $XX to call our kid a problem" and move on an ignore the problem itself.

Having money to pay for private school does not necessarily improve the situation.


But, to the OP, talk to the teacher. And, your kid needs to go get a teacher when this happens.

[Softmama]

definitely go talk to the teacher and make sure you come away knowing what her plan is. Alert her to the problem yes, but make sure she had a plan to follow up with. She should be able to articulate what she plans on doing when this happens so that you know she is not going to just ignore/overlook this.

I drill the phrase, "If they are not being nice we don't play with them" into my boys. over and over (I have plenty of opportunity to use this at home between the three of them!) and that is one of the skills they fall back on when they need to. And they will say to kids, "you're not being nice so I will not play with you". and they walk away. big one. teach him to walk away.

this next part will make me unpopular but I disagree with teaching kids not to hit back. I am a martial artist and I believe in self defense. My kids are allowed to protect themselves. We practice that they have to seek adult intervention first. But should that fail, they can defend themselves. They do not have to serve as someone's punching bag. I understand not everyone is comfortable with that.

[littlehawksmom]

Thanks for everyone's thoughts.
FTR, I do not believe that private schools would have 'better' kids than public. My reasons for wanting a different school are more because of teaching styles, school size, etc.
Actually, one of the reasons we are not homeschooling is that we would like more diversity for our dc.

I would never tell ds to hit back. I am proud that he didn't engage, as he certainly does with his little sister! I also think it would be good for him to say, "I do not like being treated this way." or "I don't like it when you talk to me that way" and then walking away. I would like him to be able to ask an adult for help (in spite of his dad calling down 'tattletales'). As I explain to dh, there is a difference between saying, "He hiit meeee." and saying, "How can get him to stop doing this?".

[famousmockngbrd]

DS was involved in a preschool bullying situation early this year. I recommend talking to the teacher about it. She is probably aware of it and may be able to give you some more insight into what is going on.

I was really glad I talked to DS's teacher about it - she handled it so gently and lovingly. The thing I liked the most about it was how low-key she was. She didn't make a huge deal out of it. She created opportunities for the boys to come together, on neutral ground, like she would put them in the same snack group, cubbies were next to each other, etc. And she made sure everybody kept their hands off each other and spoke respectfully to one another, helped them find words to talk to each other, etc. She was great. DS goes to a co-op preschool so there is one adult for every 4-5 kids, so she was really able to facilitate their acceptance of one another, while not overtly meddling.

[kmeyrick]

Originally Posted by Softmama

this next part will make me unpopular but I disagree with teaching kids not to hit back. I am a martial artist and I believe in self defense. My kids are allowed to protect themselves. We practice that they have to seek adult intervention first. But should that fail, they can defend themselves. They do not have to serve as someone's punching bag. I understand not everyone is comfortable with that.

Not everyone is a martial artist. And the bully may be a martial artist, too. We have three who take karate classes in my school. I have seen too many kids whose parents say "hit back" that get seriously hurt because Mom and Dad didn't take into account that their kid may not win the fight, but are more likely to aggravate it. It's a fantasy that the victim will conquer the bully and triumph. Often they don't back down- the bully just gets worse, or calls his friends in.

If no one is around and you have no choice but to fight like the devil, then obviously go for broke. But I would never have a child get macho about it and come to a bad end. The bully usually targets a victim who is weaker and smaller. They know who doesn't stand a chance. Few bullies pick one of equal or greater strength. It's why they target younger kids, often.

[Softmama]

Originally Posted by kmeyrick

If no one is around and you have no choice but to fight like the devil, then obviously go for broke.

we're saying the same thing

[leafylady]

I'm still unclear on whether you've talked to the teacher or not. It seems like the obvious first choice.
If you have, what was the response?

[littlehawksmom]

I did mention it to the teacher and she said she would keep an eye out for anything. This kid (the other kid, not ds) is older and larger than almost all of the other kids and has been in daycare/preschool 5 days a week for sometimes 10hours a day for years. Poor little guy.
Anyway, ds has said nothing more about it, so I assume nothing more has happened.
Thanks for everyone's thoughts and an interesting discussion.
Allie

[famousmockngbrd]

Originally Posted by littlehawksmom

Anyway, ds has said nothing more about it, so I assume nothing more has happened.

You might want to casually ask him about it, just to make sure.

[mommy68]

Originally Posted by hhurd

OT, I know.

First, it really sound like you're equating the ability to afford private school with a family being "good people." Which would mean families who can't afford private school are apt to be less good people? Goodness = the ability to pay for expensive things? Rich parents are less likely to be "bad" to their kids, and the less wealthy are more likely to treat their children badly?

Yikes. Or maybe I'm reading that the wrong way.

Yes, you read it the wrong way. Just because I have two children in private school doesn't mean I can afford it. We get special credits at their school due to our income and what not. So, yes, you did misunderstand what I said. All private schools in our area offer tuition assistance. I said that in public school there 'will' be children from bad families more likely than in a private school where someone is paying for it. But believe me, I've seen bad kids in both types of schools so I in no way meant my comment that way. I disagree with public schools for many reasons, a big one being overcrowding. It's free to send them to public so everyone uses them first and foremost.