Do I really have to supplement with formula? - Page 4

[mom2miranda]

I started supplementing with formula at about 8 mo because I wanted to be able to feed her in public with a bottle because I could no longer do it discretely and hated pumping, I COMPLETELY regret that. I wish I would have never given her formula. She wouldn't take a bottle at all until 8 mo and I think I just got used to the convenience. If I am ever blessed with another baby, i will never give a bottle or formula. YUCK! Don't make the mistakes I made. Don't listen to anyone but your own instincts.

[alegna]

Originally Posted by wannabe

About sharing you. Or rather, not really sharing, because you holding the new baby most of the time is HARD on a pre-schooler. And if you cannot go for an hour without having to stop what you're doing to feed the new baby she may well be upset. Being able to take her out for a couple of hours, or NOT delatch her during the night to feed the newbie might make a big difference.

We will deal A new baby means adjustments. No way I'll risk a nursing relationship because of it.


-Angela

[EdnaMarie]

Angela- I did not say anywhere in this conversation that all moms needed to have a stash, or how big it should be. I suggested that formula should only be necessary when pumped milk is not available.

I can think of a gazillion- okay, at least ten- instances in which pumped milk might become necessary for a short time, and might save someone the trouble of trying to get a baby to take formula. But then, my job (former, rather) involved constantly trying to put myself in other people's shoes to help them manage risk. So, I tend to look at the world in shades of gray and degrees of risk.

Regarding the oversupply, yeah, that's why I didn't pump for the first few weeks, either. But I didn't have to. When I nursed one breast, the other one leaked into a cup. And leaked, and leaked, and leaked...

[rmzbm]

I pumped with my first BECAUSE OF oversupply. He was drowning, I was using a very strict schedule. (They said I HAD to and I was a moron.) The SECOND that child got a bottle he was DONE nursing. I didn't have a clue how to get him back on the boob. I could NEVER get any milk while pumping, even though there was enough to feed 10. By 4 months he was weaned. I was able to keep up pumping, and had a tiny enough stash, to keep him getting BM for 2 weeks beyond that, then he was on formula.

I can't remember what my point was, but supplementing nursing with a bottle, even with BM, is RISKY. I would need to have exhausted EVERY other option before even entertaining the thought.

I didn't make THAT mistake again.

[thismama]

Originally Posted by wannabe

About sharing you. Or rather, not really sharing, because you holding the new baby most of the time is HARD on a pre-schooler. And if you cannot go for an hour without having to stop what you're doing to feed the new baby she may well be upset. Being able to take her out for a couple of hours, or NOT delatch her during the night to feed the newbie might make a big difference.

So... are you arguing that bottlefeeding is necessary or older children will be traumatized? For real?

[rmzbm]

Or, you could look at it as setting a TERRIFIC example for the older child!

Older siblings DO sometimes have to learn to wait when there'a a babe in the house. Just a fact of life. You do the best you can but baby's needs often trump others' (including older siblings) wants.

[blueridgewoman]

Or hey, alegna, here's a thought-- if you're like me and large breasted enough that you can nurse side-lying by laying on your BACK with the child latched on to you on the side, you can nurse both children at once without even getting up. One kid on either side of you.

Sorry, I have a weird sense of humor. But anyway, I think that generally, EN kids are well adjusted and attached children. I definitely get the impression that alegna's daughter falls into that category, and I'm sure that given how thoughtful and committed alegna is, she'll make it work. I don't think a new baby and sharing the breast has to be a traumatic adjustment.

[alegna]

Originally Posted by blueridgewoman

Or hey, alegna, here's a thought-- if you're like me and large breasted enough that you can nurse side-lying by laying on your BACK with the child latched on to you on the side, you can nurse both children at once without even getting up. One kid on either side of you.

Sorry, I have a weird sense of humor. But anyway, I think that generally, EN kids are well adjusted and attached children. I definitely get the impression that alegna's daughter falls into that category, and I'm sure that given how thoughtful and committed alegna is, she'll make it work. I don't think a new baby and sharing the breast has to be a traumatic adjustment.

Not quite THAT big boobed.... couldn't nurse on my back until dd could hold herself up a bit- but creates a fun picture.

Savannah will already tell you all about how she's going to share the "moo"

She knows that babies need the moo a LOT and she might not get it as much as she wants. She knows that babies cry and fuss and can make life hard sometimes.

She still can't wait

-Angela

[EdnaMarie]

Well I don't think anyone's suggesting introducing a bottle except under very extenuating circumstances, rmzbm. I certainly am not. I was suggesting keeping a stash of breastmilk in the freezer so that in some extenuating circumstance, it could be used instead of formula, not that the mother introduce bottles!

I certainly never let her use bottles (until she was one and tried to steal the other kids' bottles because she liked them... so I gave her one, she didn't want it, she wanted to steal theirs).

[thismama]

Originally Posted by alegna

Not quite THAT big boobed.... couldn't nurse on my back until dd could hold herself up a bit- but creates a fun picture.

Savannah will already tell you all about how she's going to share the "moo"

She knows that babies need the moo a LOT and she might not get it as much as she wants. She knows that babies cry and fuss and can make life hard sometimes.

She still can't wait

-Angela

She sounds like mine. Originally my DD was petitioning for the baby to drink from a bottle... yeah, the newborn is going to get formula while the 4 year old has the boobage to herself, what is wrong with this picture?

Now she is cool with sharing, although she wants to have one side and the baby have the other. I've talked to her about how it doesn't work that way, she will have to share both, but my body will make a lot of rich milk once the baby comes. That seemed a good compensation for sharing to her!

We shall see how tandeming goes... and like you, PP, I have the big boobage and yeah once the babe grows a little I can probably just about nurse both at once laying on my back. Or, I can lay semi on my side to nurse the babe and DD can lean over me.

[macca]

Originally Posted by thismama

So... are you arguing that bottlefeeding is necessary or older children will be traumatized? For real?

Yeah... I'm very surprised to read such comments on MDC. My son has never taken a bottle and DD coped just fine ... it wasn't even something I considered.

[tireesix]

My older daughter had major issues with me breastfeeding another child, but then DD1 had had a traumatic birth, she was only 18months when DD2 was born and DD1 had been quite ill and was still getting better....... It was hard work but we managed to get through it without bottles, without me expressing and without formula.

Eventually, they did get to a point where they would hold hands as I breastfed them both......... They don't hate each other. Sure it was hard but we got through it ok.

[readytobedone]

Originally Posted by Mahtob

Some babies will have to take a bottle, though it should be few, statistically, and if mom has normal supply, they should not have to take formula right away.

i would just like to point out that, for moms who plan to WOH at any point during their child's first year, taking a bottle might be very useful if not necessary.

i had to be away from DD for a few hours at a time, a couple times a week, starting at 3.5 months and we worked very hard from 2 weeks on to get me pumping regularly and her taking a bottle. it took several different bottle nipples, and a lot of experimenting with bottlenursing positions, but she did finally take a bottle--and if she had not, i don't know how i would've done my school stuff and made a living. she needed to nurse or get a bottle every 90 minutes for a long time, and i just couldn't work around that!

so to say, "statistically it's not likely they'll need a bottle"--this really only applies to SAHMs.

also, i think some people are overstating the risks of bottles. many, many babies take bottles and breastfeed and switch back and forth easily. that doesn't mean problems like nipple preference can't arise, but for many of us, they simply don't. and if you have no choice but to give bottles sometimes (i guess you could cup feed or finger feed, but i'm not sure how practical that would be at a daycare, for example), it doesn't much help to dwell on the potential disasters a bottle could cause. introduced at the right time, after nursing is well-established (which for us was 2 weeks--seriously), a bottle is probably going to be just fine with your baby and very helpful for you if you ever plan to need to be away for a few hours, or go back to work.

now back to your regularly scheduled thread!

[alegna]

Originally Posted by readytobedone

also, i think some people are overstating the risks of bottles. many, many babies take bottles and breastfeed and switch back and forth easily. that doesn't mean problems like nipple preference can't arise, but for many of us, they simply don't. and if you have no choice but to give bottles sometimes (i guess you could cup feed or finger feed, but i'm not sure how practical that would be at a daycare, for example), it doesn't much help to dwell on the potential disasters a bottle could cause. introduced at the right time, after nursing is well-established (which for us was 2 weeks--seriously), a bottle is probably going to be just fine with your baby and very helpful for you if you ever plan to need to be away for a few hours, or go back to work.

now back to your regularly scheduled thread!

I think that in general society goes the other way. It is ASSUMED that bottles will be used and it will be fine.

Bottles CAN be a problem to any breastfeeding relationship at any time. Period. Any artificial nipple can. They may not be. For many babies it's never a problem.

BUT they CAN be a problem. Personally I feel that *if* they can be avoided, they should. Obviously if mom has to work and the baby has to be in daycare, bottles will be a fact of life.

-Angela

[rmzbm]

Originally Posted by alegna

I think that in general society goes the other way. It is ASSUMED that bottles will be used and it will be fine.

Bottles CAN be a problem to any breastfeeding relationship at any time. Period. Any artificial nipple can. They may not be. For many babies it's never a problem.

BUT they CAN be a problem. Personally I feel that *if* they can be avoided, they should. Obviously if mom has to work and the baby has to be in daycare, bottles will be a fact of life.

-Angela

: And I think many UNDERstate the risk. Many mothers assume baby will go back and forth easily, and what happens is weaning. Going along with the quoted post...if they can be avoided they really should.

[annettemarie]

I think it's one of those risks that seems overstated if you've never had an issue, and sadly understated when you're the one with a baby with nipple confusion. As someone who has worked with moms trying to get the baby back on the breast, I personally would never introduce an artificial nipple before 4-6 weeks, depending on supply, baby's first few weeks of nursing, and baby's temperment. And even then, I would only do it if I absolutely had to (such as the example of mom going back to work) and not just to see if I could.

[hanno]

I think it needs to be pointed out that a bottle is not the only alternate means of drinking. I had my son drink water and surplus (like if I only pumped an ounce) breastmilk at just weeks old from a regular cup. Now at 11 months, he can use a cup pretty well on his own.

[Ben's Mama]

I completely agree...barring a medical necessity there is no need for formula. If it was necessary how did the hundreds of generations before the invention of formula survive and thrive!? Imho formula is pushed by many pediatricians for financial reasons and misinformation (very similar to vaccinations!).

My DS is almost 7 months and hasn't had any formula. He is perfectly healthy. I even tried starting pureed foods at 6 months but he ended up with some serious gas and tummy aches. So we've cut out the solids probably until he has some teeth to chew with. I've even had people stop me in the stores and tell me how cute my little man is and then add how healthy he looks! If many of them knew that he'd never had a bite of rice cereal and was still bf they'd probably faint!

[wannabe]

Originally Posted by alegna

We will deal A new baby means adjustments. No way I'll risk a nursing relationship because of it.


-Angela

But Angela, we're not talking about risking a nursing relationship, we're talking about an occasional bottle.

[wannabe]

Originally Posted by hanno

I think it needs to be pointed out that a bottle is not the only alternate means of drinking. I had my son drink water and surplus (like if I only pumped an ounce) breastmilk at just weeks old from a regular cup. Now at 11 months, he can use a cup pretty well on his own.

Hanno, for future reference, it's very much not recommended to feed babies who aren't on solids water. It can make them very sick.