Just because I income qualify for free preschool.... - Page 2

[cinnamongrrl]

Well, it seems to me that you are equating uneducated parents = bad parents. As if all uneducated parents are "unfit idiots" as you mentioned in your first post. There is a difference. There are parents who love their kids more than anything, but are uneducated about the best ways to care for them. That does not make them bad people. The preschool teachers don't know you, but the most logical assumption is that, if you are in a program for the poor, you did not have the luxury of an education. And if you are educated, the assumption is that you would not be utilizing low income programs. Fair assumption or not, it is what it is.

You can't expect wonderfully educated teachers and no government mandates, like lice and weight checks, when you are in a low income program. It ain't the Waldorf or the Montessori. The government is not going to love your child like you do.

You seem to feel disempowered as a parent. Maybe you need to evaluate what it is that you want to provide for your child in order to feel good about yourself as a mom. If it's keeping her home with you and providing her with lots of love and stimulation yourself, that's a valid choice. If it's getting a scholarship from a private preschool, that's another valid choice. If the low income program depresses you, then it's not a good choice for you and just let it go without judging the other parents and teachers. Do what makes you happy. Happy mom = happy child.

[Lisa85]

really? Is this new? Because I was in public school from 1989 to 2000 and never was subjected to any of that. It was the parents/doctors responsibility.

No not really. I went to preschool and then public school from 89-03. We had weight checks as a part of gym and were checked for lice regularly. We were also checked for lice for every summer camp I went to.

[MCR]

Sounds just like the headstart preschool by us. :
I refuse to enroll DD even though she qualifies.
My friend did put her three in, it was ridiculous, each time she came in, they would ask her personal questions, implying she was being abused and that she could tell them all about it, they could help blah blah blah.
Her three came home with some pretty foul language from other kids. The teachers ask them leading questions a few times which they then would ask Mom for clarification.
They were totally intimidated by her 6' 4" Dh and cause she's small (5') they assumed he's controlling and not a good guy.
It was crazy. They are now doing home visits on the enrolled kids here, they visit the home once a month. They give it a sugar coating explanation but I have a teacher friend in another area and she sad they are really looking for anythign that they feel should be reported to their higher ups and eventually reported if bad enough to CPS :

[moondiapers]

I graduated from highschool in 1994. All my life, at all 13 schools I went to (we moved a lot) head checks were done regularly, and we were weighed and measured once or twice a year.....even in the rich schools. I'm a licensed childcare provider and I'm required BY LAW to do a quick health check every morning for every child, AND I'm required to periodically check for headlice, just as I'm req. to have working smoke detectors, fire extinguisher etc etc. I'm also stongly encouraged to print out and give information to parents if I see a need.

[RomanGoddess]

Cute kid.

I think any school environment that groups kids from all one income level is probably not great. I think the idea of having a free preschool program just for lower income kids is the problem. Free preschool should be universal and for kids of all income levels. Classrooms should consist of kids from all segments of the population.

Incidentally, here in Italy (and in France, too), headlice is constantly a problem in schools and it is not just kids with dirty hair (in fact, lice prefer hair that is clean). Someone in a class always has nits so yes, the teachers do check the kids. BUT they would certainly not undo French braids for the checking. In fact, French braids would be a good preventative measure. Long hair that not tied back is more likely to attract lice.

[MayBaby2007]

I totally agree with you, sg. I understand how degrading the state can make us "low income" folks feel. There's nothing your daughter can learn in preschool that you can't teach her yourself--I wouldn't send her.

I can remember getting checked for lice in public schools--like twice/year, something very infrequent. If I picked my daughter up and her hair was a mess like your dd's was--the police would have been involved cuz there would have been a HUGE scene. Guarunteed. If they have rights to do that...what else could they have rights to do w/o your knowledge?

My dd is only 9 months but I've dealt with WIC. My dd was exclusively BF for 3 months. At 3 months, we learned she wasn't nursing well/I had inverted nipples. I tried and tried but we just couldn't do it. I wanted to BF for many reasons--one reason was: I wouldn't have to step foot in that disgusting WIC office. At 3 months I had to go. Cringe. I just hate that freaking place. I went 2 times and each time I was treated worse than slime. That was it...screw them I'll manage w/o them. I'd rather struggle than play their degrading games.

Then they want (like you said) us to sit through nutrional classes when they are the ones giving coupons out for gallon upon gallon of juice. Any nutritionalist/urologist will tell you that even adults should only have 4 ounces of juice/day--that it's not good for kidneys, etc. If juices aren't that good...why do they hand it out like it is good for these kids?

Last time I was there was October or something. But still, every 3 months I get a letter telling me how old my daughter is (I'm really glad they inform me of how old my daughter is or I'd never figure it out by myself) and that I need to vaccinate her, take her to doctor, etc. "Relay? I shud took my kid to a doctur? Thanx fur ledding me no." (6 months was the last time I took her for a WBC. I'm delaying all vax's so there's really no point in going so I don't take her anymore...but still). If I was "rich" nobody would be meddling in my life/my kid's life. What's next?

Anyway, I know how you feel. Don't feel bad about your decision...I for one would have done the same.

[flapjack]

Pull your DD out of preschool if you feel it's best BUT:
You need to file a formal complaint. If your daughter is 96% in height and 94% in weight (or vice versa, I forget) then she is NOT obese. I would double-check this with your ped, but it's my understanding that even in preschoolers there's a correlation to the BMI scale. Labelling a child obese at this early age could have lasting damage, and more importantly, with childhod obesity being on the rise, they need to get their definitions right early on. One copy of your complaint letter to the preschool, one to state government and one to whoever directly funds the preschool.
That would also cover your ass if they try to claim you're neglectful for removing her
Oh, I'm in the UK and our teachers are not allowed by law to check for headlice- it's considered assault. The default measure over here is to keep girls hair tied back and boys cut short until they hit 7 or so- oh, and to nit-check daily.

[Momily]

Originally Posted by cinnamongrrl

You can't expect wonderfully educated teachers and no government mandates, like lice and weight checks, when you are in a low income program. It ain't the Waldorf or the Montessori. The government is not going to love your child like you do.

As someone whose taught in both predominantly low-income, no-tuition programs and one of the ritziest private preschools in my city, I'm going to object pretty strongly to this. Our public programs teachers are far more educated than those of any private school in my city (I belong to an organization of preschool administrators and have access to a lot of information about staff qualifications). Right now in 2 PreK-4 classes we have 2 lead teachers with master's degrees, 2 assistant teachers who are in graduate school, plus a master's level special educator/curriculum specialist (that's me!), a master's level E.L.L. teacher, and special subject teachers as well. In my old school less than 1/2 of our teachers had any kind of degree at all.

As far as dedication my private school teachers were out the door 10 minutes after the kids and often accomplished this by cleaning up the room when they should have been interacting with the kids. On the other hand, my public school teachers stay after school to spend time 1:1 with their kids. Recently we had a student who had to stay back from a zoo trip because her behavior hadn't been safe enough to allow her to go. Her teachers came in on a weekend to take her to the zoo by herself because they were worried she'd miss the experience -- no way my private school teachers would have done that.

As for lice and weight checks, lice has nothing to do with cleanliness, or poor parenting. We don't do that at my school, but they do do that at my DS's much more affluent school -- why? Well for one thing DS's school has many more white children who are more likely to wear their hair long/not tied back, and whose hair is more similar to "nit color" and therefore makes a better hiding place. Lice has nothing to do with parenting practices unless it's Muslim families who cover their girls hair. As for weight checks, the fact is that there are many children in this country who are hungry, or who are overweight and live on diets of things like ramen noodles simply because they are cheap. We don't use weight checks to identify them, but I can see how that might be one way to do so and to open the door for parent conversations. My teachers do ask questions about what kids eat at home, so that they know which kids need a breakfast saved if they're coming in late, and which kids to feed dinner to at the end of the day. If a child from a family that I know is able to provide good food tells me they're hungry at 5:30 I'll give them a few carrots or a banana to tide them over, hoping the parent doesn't mind that I spoiled their appetite, but there are other kids who if they tell me they're hungry at 5:30 get a PBJ on whole wheat (paid for by the teachers) with those carrots, plus a bowl of cheerios with milk, a banana and an apple to stick in their backpack for a bedtime snack, because I know that might be the last thing they eat until breakfast tomorrow.

OP I'm sorry that your feelings were hurt by this. It sounds like this may not be the best program match for your child and your family, if schools that take a more comprehensive look at child welfare are offensive to you.

[kathymuggle]

Originally Posted by Momily

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OP I'm sorry that your feelings were hurt by this. It sounds like this may not be the best program match for your child and your family, if schools that take a more comprehensive look at child welfare are offensive to you.

Actually, I do not think the way the preschool in the OP is functioning is taking a comprehensive look at child welfare.

A comprehehnsive look would not be a one-size fits all approach to health. A comprehensive program would empower parents to be advocates for their childrens health. It would not look for lice once a week without parental consent. Once a month, with consent, will suffice. it will also send home pertinent fact sheets on lice. It would not do a nutritional allowance without consent, and by a nutritionist who a) does not know the child and b) bases it on one question and answer sheet done at registration. How about a multi - day food diary instead?

OP: I agree with you. I think there is an assumption that low income=inept. My sister has been subjected to mandatory classes through her "low income program" that you know darn well you would not be subjected to in a privately funded school.

Sorry your experience was so harsh. FWIW, I would think long and hard about sending your DD to public school. I think public schools over step their bounds as well, and some parents are better at letting it roll off their backs than others (no judgement intended at those who "let it roll" and those who can't)

kathy

[sg784]

Originally Posted by kathymuggle

Actually, I do not think the way the preschool in the OP is functioning is taking a comprehensive look at child welfare.

A comprehehnsive look would not be a one-size fits all approach to health. A comprehensive program would empower parents to be advocates for their childrens health. It would not look for lice once a week without parental consent. Once a month, with consent, will suffice. it will also send home pertinent fact sheets on lice. It would not do a nutritional allowance without consent, and by a nutritionist who a) does not know the child and b) bases it on one question and answer sheet done at registration. How about a multi - day food diary instead?

OP: I agree with you. I think there is an assumption that low income=inept. My sister has been subjected to mandatory classes through her "low income program" that you know darn well you would not be subjected to in a privately funded school.

Sorry your experience was so harsh. FWIW, I would think long and hard about sending your DD to public school. I think public schools over step their bounds as well, and some parents are better at letting it roll off their backs than others (no judgement intended at those who "let it roll" and those who can't)

kathy

Thank you. You put it very well. I feel like I SHOULD be the advocate for my childs health. Not the teacher. Not the school nurse, nutritionist, anyone else.

[Irishmommy]

Originally Posted by Belleweather

Um. I know this is off track, but wouldn't obesity only be a cause for concern if you daughter was in, like... the 25th percentile for height and the 96% for weight? If your child is both tall and heavy doesn't that just argue that she's proportional?

Oh quit being so logical.

Here, lice checks are only done if a kid is reported as having them. And then a public health nurse comes in and checks that whole class (or grade, I'm not sure, but it's max 2 classes per grade anyway). The teachers would never check the kids, though they might call. And kids with lice/nits cannot go back to school until they get an all clear from the PHN.

Our province also does dental checks in Grades 2 and 7. You have to opt out if you don't want it done, rather than them getting permission beforehand. I argued this (after the fact) as far as the minister in charge, and it's not considered assault or anything to do it this way. I totally disagree - no one should touch my child without my express permission. They also asked country of origin for every child too, "for statistical purposes". I blew a gasket on that one with them as well.