male factor bitterness?

[crazyrunningmama]

Our IF issues are mf. But it's me who does the shots, takes the risks, obsesses about folic acid and me who now is planning to go to accupuncture with the hopes of increasing our chance of success when we next try IVF. Dh is fantastic, but I see big potential for bitterness and anger here. So far we're good, we have good communication and he says he totally gets it how unfair it all is. Heck, IF is unfair, no matter what form it takes. The other day I was asking if he was taking a multivitamin and he got all "mind your own business" on me. Uh, it is my business when we are ttc, just like it would be his business if I was smoking or drinking. He won't even consider going to accupuncture or taking herbs. Where are you guys at with this?

BTW, it's been a cranky day, take me with a grain of salt.

[Stealthee]

Hi there, Crazyrunningmama. I hear ya!

This is my first post on the IF board. We just got the results of DH's SA revealing less than 1% motility. Obviously our only chance, barring a miracle, is IVF with ICSI.

And, yes, in addition to potential heartache of remaining childless, I worry about the damage IF can do to our relationship. We've been together 5 years and married almost one.

So, in conclusion, I've got no insight or words of wisdom on the subject. Just thought I'd come commiserate with you.

[hope4light]

DH and I have actually discussed this. We worry about the possibility that it will ruin something great. We have fought more since this whole process started then we ever did before. We have found that by keeping open lines of communication, and discussing it has helped some. But I still worry... we've had one cycle cancelled, what if it is 4 more cycles down the road before it works... or if it never does? I actually had a dream just the other night that it got so bad that we split... it's heartache just to even wake up from that dream.... then for me, I have a lot of probs with the meds, side effects that no one else I know gets, but of course they are on the 'list' of potential side effects... I was so tired and worn down, and uncomfortable... and what's he doing? giving me the shots and that's it....

Have you talked about seeing someone? I've been thinking about it, and I even mentioned it to DH. He did not seem against it, just thought it was a little strange and then was worried that I was starting to feel the bitterness. I told him I wasn't, I was just thinking that maybe that was one more way to help keep it from happening. He hasn't really broached the issue again, and I'm nervous about doing it... may seem silly, I know.... but that's the only thing that I could think of to maybe help.....

[Mama Rana]

This is an issue with us. I can't say with 100% certainty that there are no issues within me too (possible luteal phase problem), but we KNOW that he has sperm issues. But I'm the one going to acupuncture, reading as much as possible, trying to coax him to take his vitamins and wear his boxers, and have sex every other night as much as possible.
He says he doesn't want to go through the whole drama of "trying" again, the wondering and disappointment every month, etc. (We conceived a son 4.5 years ago who is quite a miracle considering we had just heard from the urologist that our chances of conceiving even if we did try Chlomid were next to nothing.) But what I keep trying to explain to him is that I'M going through that anyway. I'm better than I was before. I no longer cry for days when my period arrives, but every month I obsessively look for signs on my chart that I might have conceived. Pull out that one chart where I KNOW I DID conceive and compare. Look at other charts and wonder, Did I conceive then, but lose it because of my luteal phase weirdness?

We haven't tried any reproductive technologies yet. I'm not sure if we're going to go that way or not. But DH wants to set a "time limit" on the trying just for peace of mind.

It's been a year and half now. DS took almost 2 years. So who knows.

Good luck!

[goblue]

I am in a similar situation. We are going through IVF (second round end of April, first round cancelled because I overstimulated two days before retrieval) due to male factor (1 million sperm only)

It's so hard not to get passive aggressive during the whole process. A few times last month I would give myself injections, be taking the pills and staring angrily at my husband was watching TV in the same room. It sucks! We do see a therapist every other week (sometimes I go alone so I can vent) and that helps a lot. I recommend this to those who are open to seeing a therapist. It can get expensive but I believe most insurances will cover at least half of the cost.

We also just started to go to an acupuncturist, so thankfully my DH is willing to do that and take the herbs. I know he feels so bad that we have to go through this, so I just do my best not to say anything insensitive to him. That's what I have my therapist and girlfriends for.

But at the same time, I still get kind of pissy when I see him go out drinking with his buddies (acupuncturist told him to lay off on the alcohol) or working his laptop on his lap (acupuncturist also told him to stop that) but honestly, I've decided to pick my battles.

I do find solace that there are others out there who have felt the same emotions I have.

[quantumleap]

We have severe male factor too. There aren't any known issues on my end, but like many of you, I do wonder. ART hasn't been successful for us yet (frozen donor sperm w IUI x 3, fresh donor w ICI x 1). At one point, my partner told me he didn't want children at all, in the midst of everything. I almost left him. It was a hellish period in our relationship as well as for each of us personally. In the end, it isn't that he doesn't want children, but that, at that point in time, the process of "getting" children was too much for him. I still feel a little decieved though. We talked about children before we talked about so many other important things. We got married with the understanding and with plans that we would have 4 or 5 kids. Now, I may never get to experience pregnancy or birth. I do resent him a little bit for that. I occasionally think about cheating on him. I won't, but sometimes it's appealing.
In the end though, I have been blessed with my partner. He is hyper aware of the potential for bitterness and resentment and does everything he can to minimize it. I love him, we're still going to parent together. We're in a good place now.
That said, I do think that men just don't typically get as involved with fertiilty stuff in terms of researching, etc. I think part of it is that a baby is real to a man when it appears, or maybe when he can feel it moving inside his partner. Maybe. All this prep stuff could feel a bit disconnected, maybe? I also know that, while my partner is open to taking the supplements I pump him full of, I have to research them, purchase them, and then put them in his hand with a glass of water. He basically takes them to placate me. He feels that his sperm is so bad, what good is it to try to make them a little bit better, when a bit better still isn't good enough? Maybe this is a shared thought process?
I did completely lose it at him not too long ago when he had to update his SA. You have to do something pleasant and collect the results. That's it. Perhaps a little embarassing to drop it off, but seriously?!? I had to twist his arm to get him to do it and he complained the whole time. Eventually I just let him have it with the, "I have to have catheters inserted into my closed cervix, numerous people spend time looking at my splayed open genitals, I have to get poked and prodded and measured and tested constantly. And there is nothing wrong with me. All you have to do is ejaculate into a cup!" There were a few other things in there, but that was the general theme. It got him moving. I still feel bad about saying those things though. He didn't chose to have a body that doesn't co-operate. Sometimes that helps me, if I can just remember that, just as I didn't chose this situation, neither did he. In a way, I feel a bit lucky that he is the problem. I don't know if I could handle knowing that it is entirely my own body that is keeping the one thing I want most from me. At least there are options when it's male factor.

You're allowed to be bitter, really. You're allowed to feel anything you need to. Infertility sucks. Just try not to let it take over.

Best,
Katia

[Mama Rana]

Yes! What is it about men and semen collecting? Well, I know that my DH was raised in a very conservative family where masturbation was a sin. I struggle with him not passing that on to our son. But still. It's not like it's unpleasant like some of the tests we have to do. *sigh* I know he didnt' choose it, but he can choose how he responds.

[Dena]

I could have written most of these posts through our six year battle to concieve our two girls. And it was a battle, in every sense of the word. We almost lost our relationship and ourselves in the process. We had many many fights over the fact that I was the one doing "all" the work. Honestly, I do think it is a guy thing. It was next to impossible to get dh to take supplements - he blamed a severe gag reflex, which got no sympathy from me as I was poke, prodded, and shot. All the research, etc. - forget it. He did go to accupuncture, but was pretty noncompliant about herbs, even though they were not in pill form, so there was no "gag reflex" excuse. It seemed to me at the time (and still does a little) that he was doing the minimum necessary to "keep me off his back" about the whole thing. I did get pretty bitter there for awhile. I think for me, as much as anything, what I was looking for was some appreciation. I didn't mind going through everything I was going through, I just wanted to know it was appreciated. And he was so angry and sad that he was the "cause" of our IF that it was hard for him to express any gratitude, if that makes sense.

I have read about guys who were eager to help in any way they could, who would research their own supplements, take them without prodding, do every thing possible to improve their situation, but I think they are few and far between. Just like guys who voluntarily do housework.

We saw an awesome therapist through this time - I am still seeing her now to work on grief issues associated with the stillbirth of one of our twins - and having that objective third party who could act in a way as an "interpreter" of sorts really helped both of us. We built some good communications skills that still are sooo useful today.

The other thing that helped me a ton during that time was having friends - mostly online - who were also going through male IF specifically, because there are different emotions and dynamics involved I think, and it was nice to talk to other women who "got it." Some of those ladies are still close friends today. We are almost like war buddies. (Fwiw, we all have kids now, some through IVF, some through IUI, some through surprises!)

[avocada]

DH got an SA about 1.5 yrs ago when we were beginning TTC. Does he need to get another one? I don't remember the numbers, but when I looked it up online he was on the low end of normal, if I remember OK. Since then, tho, we've gotten a bathtub, and he reads about a half a book per bath per day. Says he's all over it, tho, cuz he keeps the water around body temp instead of hot hot--- but hmmm, I still think that's too warm for the scrotal sac that evolutionarily LEFT the body because it's too warm, right??? However, because he's so good about supplements, diet, etc, and is even trying to quit smoking, AND because we're remodeling and haven't tiled in the shower yet (so only a tub), I've so far not addressed that with him.

But what do you think, should he get another SA?

[crazyrunningmama]

Yes, he should get another SA and he should knock of the baths, IMHO. The "factory" needs to be lower than body temp to work. Actually this is the only thing my dh has been on top of, he keeps 'em cooooool. No underwear, no baths at all, and the hours he spends on the computer are pants-less (private office upstairs). It actually changed his number significantly (from no way in hell, to pretty darn unlikely, but still).

And ya, what is with the whole not going for an SA thing? Before we knew what our problems were, I had really irregular periods so I had a bunch of tests done, but of course the dr said to get an SA done too. Weeks went by. Eventually I sat down with dh and wrote down for him alllllll the tests had done and how awful they were (he is needlephobic so the number of vials of blood I had taken was a big shock, also did not enjoy my explicit description of an HSG), also how much time off work, how many appointments booked and gone to, how much parking paid for... and he went for the darn SA. And we have such major mf problems that ICSI is our only option.

I have seen a therapist and I plan to go again soon. I have other issues to work through about IF in general, so not sure if I need to focus on dealing with this one. Thanks for all of your responses, it's great to have a safe place to be honest about these things.

[Mama Rana]

Originally Posted by Dena

I think for me, as much as anything, what I was looking for was some appreciation. I didn't mind going through everything I was going through, I just wanted to know it was appreciated. And he was so angry and sad that he was the "cause" of our IF that it was hard for him to express any gratitude, if that makes sense.

Yes!!! I just want him to be more involved, both emotionally and intellectually. He's so detached from the whole process it seems. *sigh*

[mrst3]

I'm a newbie here and this is my first chance to post. But I wanted to start by saying I'm sorry you're having such a rough go of all this. It really is exhausting emotionally and can wear on a relationship too. You have every right to feel frustrated, and as the others have stated, you're not alone.

DH and I were diagnosed with about as severe male factor as you can get back in 2000... his SA showed a sperm count of zero! Yep, nothing! We were very fortunate to be able to do a testicular biopsy and they found a whopping five sperm to use for IVF/ICSI which, miraculously, gave us twins. We later moved on to (known) donor inseminations which gave us our daughter who is now two, and we are currently gearing up to do yet another donor insem.

While I am very lucky in that my DH is extremely supportive and understanding and willing to go the extra mile with all of this, I won't deny that he can be a slacker about it. It's not intentional, I think men are just wired differently. I also think they have much less of an emotional connection to the whole journey unlike us females and that only adds to the potential for resentment and disconnect. One of the things that helped me tremendously when we did our IVF was that DH gave me all my shots. It was his gig and it made him have to be a part of it. He actually really enjoyed it as it helped him feel more connected to the process as well as the overall journey.

The other thing is that as we've continued our journey, using a known donor, I pretty much told him I needed him to be the "coordinator" so to speak. As I explained to him, it's a much more emotionally draining experience for me and it's only that much harder when I feel like I'm the one who has to plan it all out (let's face it... we women really organize the world, don't we!). So, I really need him to help me out by making the phone calls, scheduling cycles and such. It's a great way for him to be more involved and shows me that he really does want this too as it essentially puts him in charge of making sure we get the ball rolling and when and how. Maybe you can try asking DH to take over some of those responsibilities. Let him schedule the next appt or things like that. It's a great way for them to get more involved in little ways and hopefully take some of the stress off us women. Who knows? It's just a thought.

In the meantime, I wish you oodles of strength, patience and good old baby luck as you continue on your journey.

Kris

[crazyrunningmama]

It's great that your dh is really stepping up (and that you can and do tell him what would help you). I had to giggle thinking of how it would apply to us though. My dh is needle phobic, when I was in emerg getting geared up for a D&C I sent him out of the room when they came to take blood, cause I didn't want to have to deal with him fainting! And because the better shape he is in emotionally, the better we can support each other. So NOOOOO way did he or would he do my shots. And the thought of him making the appointments! More about me than him, I would micromanage him and get more stressed about him doing things "wrong" than about having to do it all myself. Yes, we women do organize the world.

Good luck everyone and thanks for sharing and listening!