What is too many tantrums?

[Phoenix~Mama]

I'd love as much feedback as possible. All the four year olds I have encountered in my life did not seem to have as many outbursts as my DSD. And I have been around ALOT of children. I have two younger sisters, and 30 cousins whom I babysat, as well as other children I babysat. I also have a 3 and a half year old nephew who does not do this..

My DSD has a major tantrum over EVERYTHING. She doesn't want to eat dinner, screaming/crying. She didn't want me to pick her up from daycare, screaming/crying/kicking. She didn't like any of the three PJ options, screaming/crying/kicking.

Basically she has a major tantrum at least once an hour when we have her. Is this normal for this age? I have never seen a child crhy so much.

And honestly we aren't being mean or demanding... we give her lots of options. I have tried talking to her and saying I will be happy to help her and talk to her and listen, but she needs to calm down so we can talk.

None of it works...

I mentioned it to DP and that doesn't go well... no one can say anything is wrong with his daughter... and I'm not even saying anything is wrong... it just concerns me.

She is very smart and doing really well at pre-school and at dance school. Her teachers say she is one of the best in her class... so it just doesn't make sense to me that she can't talk to us without freaking out?

[mammal_mama]

How long have you known your DSD? Do you think she could be having a hard time with her parents' divorce/separation/untogetherness and her dad's new life with you?

As far as your question as to how many tantrums are too many -- well, is there ever an "optimal" number for tantrums (i.e. when is it "not enough" tantrums )? It seems to me that there's lots of variation from child to child, and from situation to situation. Maybe it's stressful to her to have to go back and forth between 2 different homes.

I know you give her lots of options about pajamas and stuff -- but maybe she's feeling that, in the really important areas of life, she really has absolutely no say.

Also, what if she didn't want to wear pajamas to bed? Would you be cool with her sleeping in her clothes or her underwear? Instead of presenting options, do you sometimes just ask her, in an open-ended way, what she'd like to do?

I don't know if this helps any. And of course I'm not saying that you have control over the decisions that your DSD's parents have made, that make her life the way it is now. But maybe looking at her life from her perspective could shed some light on why she seems so unhappy ... maybe her day-to-day options are actually more limited than you'd originally thought.

I hope something (either from me or someone else) helps!

[Phoenix~Mama]

It is true she likely does not have much say in the big things like who's house she is going to that day... And I fully respect she has a lot on her plate... but my goodness... everyone in the house is on edge when she is over anymore, Grammy and Pop-pop included. Basically if DSD does not have full control over the situation she freaks out... but honestly... we can't really have a 4 year old dictating what every move we should make is?!

Her parents have been split up for a year and a half and she has been in the same visitation arranegment for all of it. Her Mother cheated on her Father and immediately started living with the guy once my DP left. So having a new parental figure and someone to share with your parent isn't new to DSD.

I have been in DSD's life for 6 months now... As far as I can tell, not too much has changed in this time, except that I do more of the pick-up/drop-offs now since DP's work schedule has changed and he cannot. But DSD's Mother and I are on friendly terms and talk and such when I drop her off... so there is no tension there.

I was just wondering if it was normal... I just feel for her, you know? And everyone else in this situation... I hate to see her get herself so upset over something so small... I hate that her screaming then upsets everyone else in the house.

I want a magic wand to fix everything. lol I know it doesn't work like that... I just want to make clear that I just want to help the situation. I'm not complaining about DSD... it's more concern than anything, and I wish she could be happier.

[mammal_mama]

-- yes, it sure does sound like she has a lot on her plate! I can understand your wishing that you could just wave a magic wand.

I haven't exactly experienced your situation, because my DSD was 15 when her dad married me. Then her mom remarried and they moved an hour away. She was still coming for every other weekend at first -- but it quickly became evident that this arrangement was a real cramp for her as a teen.

It meant that, every other weekend, she'd have to miss out on some of her church youth activities, or other stuff she wanted to do with friends. It made more sense for us to just arrange to go out there, and visit with her for a few hours at a time at her convenience ... take her out to eat, that kind of thing. If she wanted to come for a weekend, she could, but we didn't push it.

Of course, my dh got to live with his dd for the first 13 years of her life, whereas your DSD is much younger than mine was, so your dp naturally wants to have regular overnights and keep up a close bond with her as she grows.

So are you guys living with your dp's parents, or with yours? I'm guessing that since the visitation hasn't changed, and she calls them Grammy and Pop-pop, they're probably his parents, and her grandparents, which would probably be easier than adjusting to spending every other weekend with your parents.

But still, all the different dynamics inherent in having two different couples in the home, on top of what DSD's undoubtedly having to get used to with the new guy in her and her mom's home, would have to take a toll on a little kid.

Not that it's bad for you guys to live with DP's parents, it may actually be ideal. I'm just saying that it's more people for DSD to continually have to relate to, and she probably does feel very little control over her life. It makes sense that she'd attempt to control whatever she could, to compensate.

I can imagine that it is hard when DSD's screaming upsets everyone in the house. Do you find that your DP's parents are understanding and supportive -- or are they part of the generation who believes that parents aren't supposed to "allow" such open expression of emotions?

So much of your dsd's life has had to be rearranged, and scooted around, to accommodate her mom's hankering to have an affair and now a new man -- not your fault, of course.

DSD's world has literally been turned upside-down so that the adults could arrange their lives more the way they wanted them -- and, of course, I'm not saying that your dp should have been willing to stay with an unfaithful partner, or that he should have remained single for eternity, either -- just that this is all nevertheless very hard on DSD.

So when I hear you saying that DSD's tantrums are upsetting everyone in the house -- on the one hand, I realize how hard this must be for the adults, but on the other hand, I can't help feeling that sometimes adults need to be willing to have their lives turned upside-down by their children. Especially after their children's lives have been turned upside-down by parental choices.

Again, I'm not blaming you or your dp for DSD's mom's affair. But part of being a parent is being willing to weather the blows of life with our children -- just as you would if your child were severely injured after being hit by a drunk driver. Just as you had no control over DSD's moms poor choices, you'd also have no control if your child were injured by a drunk driver.

But you'd still have to be there with and for your child ... the consequences of that other person's actions would affect you for as long as they affected your child, you know. And when your dp made a baby with this woman, he entered into a situation where he is always going to be affected by this woman's choices, even though they're not together, because they share a child together -- and when his baby's hurt he's going to be hurt, too.

And of course, you'll hurt with them because you're now part of the family, too. But I think it's also a blessing that you're part of the family! Just be patient, and keep things as stable for her as you can, and I think you'll see her settling in. I'd let her have control over as many things as she can while she's with you, and just show her, in word and action, that her anger isn't going to stop you from loving her and being there for her.

[Oh the Irony]

Has she always been this way? Does your DP remember her being that way at 2 and 3?

Sometimes it can be hard to figure out what is caused by stress and what is personality. She may be spirited or strong willed and then you add in family stress on top of it. It does seem like power seeking behavior.

All those changes are stressful for the adults that play a role in them--for a wee one it is a lot to deal with and express.

I would suggest checking out some books from the library. Look at stuff like:

Parenting the Strong Willed Child
Easy to Love, Difficult to Discipline
Taming the Spirited Child
Raising Your Spirited Child

What are you doing now? How is everyone reacting when she has a tantrum?

[Phoenix~Mama]

mammal_mama thank you so much! That was actually some of the best advice/insight I have received on here thus far.


I have been trying out different approaches to my relationship with DSD, and the newest is praising her for every tiny thing she does and just showing her a lot of love and making sure she knows she can talk to me and stuff.

I'm going to stick with it and come here to vent or whatever I need when it gets hard... but I'm determined to be a good Step-Mom and show DSD lots of love. What you said really hit home for me. And just what I needed to hear before I leave for the day to go get her from daycare for the weekend.

Thank you very much.

[mammal_mama]

I'm glad it was of help. Your dsd is very blessed indeed to have you!

[chinaKat]

Is there any way she could get more sleep? And if she's not on one already, get onto a very regular bedtime/wakeup schedule?

I've found that getting DD (3.5yo) to bed early (I'm talking 6:30 PM) makes all the difference in her behavior the next day. The more days in a row I can manage this, the happier she is.

It was a tough call b/c it meant sacrificing some family time (like dinners together during the week) but it won't be forever, and it makes things so much easier for her (and me)!

Hope this helps.

[Phoenix~Mama]

This was a great weekend! The best in a loooong time!! She even went #2 on the toilet this weekend!!! She has not done this since November!!! So it was pretty awesome. *nods*


She has been pretty good this weekend. The normal kids stuff here and there, but overall it was a great weekend.


I don't even think we did anything differently... lol I'm just so excited she finally went on the toilet again... it's been a long several months.

[violet_]

It is hard to know what is stress or what is just developmental.

In our case, we have a simple rule: if she asks for something nicely, the answer might be yes or it might be no, depending. But if she whines and cries or fusses for no reason, then the answer is always no. It teaches her a little self-control and better communication, and it put a quick stop to the tantrums over here. Sometimes she'll get her face all scrunched up and tears well into her eyes like she's about to go, and I'll just say, "I hope you're going to ask me nicely for what you want instead of fussing," and she'll instantly relax her face, chage tactics, and ask for what she wants. You'd need DH onboard to try something like that. Good luck.

[SquishyKitty]

DS did go through a phase where his emotions just got the better of him. I think it's normal.

Honestly, we didn't really deal with tantrums. We would remove DS from the situation, sit with him quietly, and once he was done, start again. Usually he was able to talk it out afterwards.

Don't feed into it, if it starts, just either wait it out, and once she sees that you're not going ot respond until she's calm, she'll probably calm down.