Breastfeeding issues.

[Dea]

I've gotten no help from the breast feeding challenges board. I've spoken to several lactation consultants and I've gotten conflicting advise, I've been to a LLL meeting and they gave me a nugget of hope. But I'm at a loss. I've gone from producing a meagres tablespoon to a teaspoon to nothing. She still won't really latch, other than a few occasions. I've broken down and asked my doctor for a prescription since the herbs aren't working either.
I don't want to give up, but when is a logical time to give up? I'm taking a lot of time away from my baby so I can pump on this crazy schedule.
So any tips? Anything?

[operamommy]

Dea, are you supplementing by using a bottle? If so, I would *definately* get a Lact-Aid ASAP. This will allow your dd to get the nutrition she needs while also stimulating your breasts at the same time. I relacted (long story!) for my ds2 when he was an infant, and using the lact-aid really helped me. The first few times I used it ds2 didn't want to latch, so I would get the flow of formula started by sucking on the end of the tube myself then quickly helping him latch - he got the idea rather quickly that mom's breasts = food!!

What other suggestions have you tried? Or, if you could point me to one of your previous threads in the breastfeeding forum I'll read for myself and see if I can think of anything else.

I'll be thinking of you and sending you lots of hugs.

[flapjack]

Dea, one of the ONLY times that domperidone is prescribed over here is about three weeks after a mother has started pumping, because it's pretty common to run into difficulties then. I know there is an exclusive pumpers tribe (and a tribe for mamas who had real, real difficulties breastfeeding) and I think you need to go and find them. One of my beloved mamas from my other DDC had huge supply problems with her first and I know that domperidone worked really well for her. NICU and special needs parenting forum might also have the answers you need.
I think at this point you need to make a choice- I'm sorry, I hadn't realised you were using bottles You can either take the bottles away and go with a SNS, you can pump and bottlefeed or you can bottlefeed with ABM. Option one does not rule out two or three, option two does not preclude option three, and so on.

[Jezzy]

sorry no words of wisdom, just hugs.

[sarahn4639]

You asked when a logical time to give up is. I think since you are starting a new med to boost supply you might as well wait long enough to see if it will work for you (I don't know how long that is for this med). I also agree to go to a lact-aid or SNS system of feeding for that amount of time. Some women who don't lactate use the SNS just to have the feeling of breastfeeding and to have the physical contact with babe so you could continue that either way if you wanted. I really hope you get a big break through soon!! Keep going to LLL and speaking to their leaders. I think most of the time they give better advise than many LCs. I know this is hard, I had several issues with my DD, but nothing as difficult as you've gone through so I can only imagine the extent of your heartache.

[operamommy]

Dea, I was able to find one of your posts in the challenges forum where you said you'd tried an SNS but it didn't go so well. My advice would be to keep trying with that or perhaps try the lact-aid system. I had both, but preferred the lact-aid. Using them is HARD at first; I remember! I think sometimes a babe can have trouble and resist because mama feels so awkward trying to juggle tubing and the bottle/bag around her neck! It does get easier and feel much more natural, I promise.

That being said, I agree with flapjack about looking into dom. I also used that when I relactated, and saw a dramatic increase in my supply while taking it.

Please know that whatever you decide that we'll all support you. I just want to make sure to throw every option possible out for you because I remember feeling much like you do now with ds2. His issues with nursing and eventual hospitalization for FTT were incredibly stressful on our entire family. I did end up weaning him at the age of 5 weeks, supported by my LC. My sadness over weaning drove me to relactate when he was 3 months old (talk about work!!) and we were able to have a very successful nursing relationship till he self-weaned just after his second birthday in October.

[day-by-day]

I'm sorry you are having such a tough time. It sounds like you are giving it everything you've got. And I know how exhausting and discouraging it can be.

The thing that really worked for me when my children just could not latch was a nipple shield. I really hated that so many breastfeeding things I read and even my midwives at the time were so down on the use of the shield. For me, that's what made it work. I know that it's not answer for everyone. But my real point is that if you find something/anything that makes it work, use that. The conflicting advice is confusing, but I think it happens because sometimes, no one really knows why things are going wrong and no one really knows what is going to be the thing that will help.

One thing that I was reminded of many times in those first few awful weeks was just how much the baby grows in the first three months. One friend assured me that things would be going much better within 3 months. At the time, I was horrified because 3 months sounded like forever, but sure enough by about 11 weeks our troubles were worked through and she was nursing like she had done it all her life.

Hang in there! You're doing an amazing job!

[flapjack]

One other thing: I have NEVER been able to get more than an ounce or two with a pump- and I have oversupply issues. The amount you can express is not a direct relationship with the amount that Beatrix can remove, kwim? Or could, anyhow, if she decided to put it on her to-do list.

[Dea]

Thanks everyone. I have an SNS but she won't latch. She has nipple confusion and won't do it. When we try there is much screaming and fussing. I've tried finger feeding with it, and that is better and I do it as often as I can. I've asked about dop.... but I do'nt know if I can get it, I've read that you can only get reglan in the states. (I know the spelling is wrong) I have been pumping for nearly 3 weeks (2 days short of 3 weeks, I started 24 hours after she was born)
I've tried a nipple shield and she won't latch with that either, I may have it sized wrong, I'm patiently waiting to amazon to deliver some more.
We do a lot of naked time, and she roots, but will not latch, I try to offer a nipple to her but she fights it. She does take comfort in nuzzling though.
I just don't know...
Interestingly enough she refuses a pacifier and will comfort suck my finger.
I'll try SNS again and look into getting a lactaid.
My previous posts have been on the breastfeeding challenges board.

[nausicaamom]

Dea, you have probably already tried these, but thought I'd throw them out. First, take the stress off getting her to latch and only try the breast after she's had a bit to eat so she doesn't get hysterical. To encourage her to latch with the shield, try squirting a bit of formula or expressed milk on the end and then latch her on. If she starts getting hysterical, back off and try again later - it's not worth pushing it and risking an aversion. Have you tried hand expressing at all - my girlfriend can't let down for a pump for anything but has had luck with hand expressing - and she also needs to watch a video of her baby crying to be able to let-down. There's a technique for it, I'll try to dig up a link for you. lastly, lots of skin-to-skin time, hold her frogged up on your bare chest with her naked or just in a diaper with a warm blanket oner both of you - the LC's at the hospital said this definitely stimulates an eating reflex and it may help promote some calm before trying to get her on.

My first was a slow nurser and I had inverted nipples so we did the whole nipple shield/pump/supplement routine and it really was hell. Only you can decide when you've had enough and I'll definitely support you in whatever you choose to do. s

[Dea]

Originally Posted by nausicaamom

Dea, you have probably already tried these, but thought I'd throw them out. First, take the stress off getting her to latch and only try the breast after she's had a bit to eat so she doesn't get hysterical. To encourage her to latch with the shield, try squirting a bit of formula or expressed milk on the end and then latch her on. If she starts getting hysterical, back off and try again later - it's not worth pushing it and risking an aversion. Have you tried hand expressing at all - my girlfriend can't let down for a pump for anything but has had luck with hand expressing - and she also needs to watch a video of her baby crying to be able to let-down. There's a technique for it, I'll try to dig up a link for you. lastly, lots of skin-to-skin time, hold her frogged up on your bare chest with her naked or just in a diaper with a warm blanket oner both of you - the LC's at the hospital said this definitely stimulates an eating reflex and it may help promote some calm before trying to get her on.

My first was a slow nurser and I had inverted nipples so we did the whole nipple shield/pump/supplement routine and it really was hell. Only you can decide when you've had enough and I'll definitely support you in whatever you choose to do. s

I've tried to hand express but I get a couple drips and that's all, sometimes it's more than I can get pumping, but it's still not much. I've been practicing it before I pump though to see if Ihave any success.
I'll try that tip with the nipple shields, it's a good one.
We do lots of skin to skin time, and I love it... she likes it too, it's a sure fire way to calm her down if there's a big melt down that my off key singing doesn't help...
I'm not going to give up. It has to work, both of our bodies were meant to do this, it just may take a little time.

Thanks for all of the inspiration mamas! Really and truly it's helped and encouraged me to keep trying.

[spughy]

Hi, I'm from Helen's DDC - the aforementioned dom user. That definitely helped, as did pinpointing the most likely source of the problem to begin with - a non-healing postpartum hemmorhage/retained placenta - and upping my iron to compensate. I supplemented with formula and bottles - I tried to use an SNS but found that DD ended up with more formula that way than she did with a bottle, and stopped nursing sooner each session because she was full faster. I got better results (ie, more boob juice into the kid) using a bottle because she would get as much as she possibly could out of the boob and I'd just top her up with the bottle afterwards. That also made it easier to ease off the formula, too. But, that's just my experience - I had no problem with her latch or her nursing, she just didn't get enough to gain weight, and the extra bit of formula gave her the energy to nurse well the next time.

I haven't read your other threads so I don't know - but do you know WHY your supply is low? Usually it seems there is a medical reason - PCOS, post-partum anemia/trauma, hypoplastic breasts... if you can figure out why you're not producing enough milk, it helps you decide when and if to give up. Hypoplastic breasts, for instance, are kind of a lost cause, all the domperidone in the world won't help in that case - but anemia can be cured, and PCOS-related supply issues also respond well to domperidone. I had a friend who had that problem and while she had to keep supplementing, the domperidone did get the supplementation down to a manageable level and she didn't have to supplement at night, which is the worst as I'm sure you know!

In my case once the anemia cleared up (about 4 months pp) I was able to exclusively breastfeed, although I remained on domperidone until DD was old enough to understand "Mummy's boobs just don't have as much in them any more" - which for us was 18 months. Thanks to good health insurance, the costs were covered, and it wasn't enough to be a substantial financial burden on us anyway. It was a pain taking pills 4 times a day, and I didn't get my period back until I stopped taking it.

Feel free to PM me if you have any questions, I"ll be happy to help where I can. And also - I'm sure you've heard this - any boob juice is better than none, and even if you have to keep supplementing, it DEFINITELY gets to be less of a pain later on.