Waiting for everyone?

[greeny]

My dd is almost 5, and we will probably be sending her to a Montessori school in the fall (or homeschooling).

I have been considering our public school system, so I sat in on a kindergarten class last week.

While I was there, the teacher had all the kids at tables and was teaching letters and words. The kids were writing letters and words on their little dry-erase boards.

The teacher would write a word on the board and then would tell the class, "Okay, write the word on your board now."

If a child wrote the word before the teacher said "Okay, write the word on your board now," she would make him/her erase it even if it was right and do it again after she instructed the whole class to write it.

I thought this was terrible! I think that if a child is capable of "working ahead" or whatever you want to call it, then she should be allowed - no, encouraged! - to do so. But when I've told friends about this, they've told me that it's more important that the kids are learning to follow rules, and that waiting for everyone is important. (I think following rules *is* important, but this is a really stupid rule, in my opinion. )

What are your thoughts on this?

[mom2ponygirl]

It seems stupid to me as well. I can see that you would want to teach kids to wait until they hear the complete instructions, but you give them a reason to need to wait and not something so easy to anticipate.

Yuck - I wouldn't like that class. Of course we ended up hs'ing!

[blizzard_babe]

Hmm, as a teacher, I can think of a few cases where I'd do this... like if I were introducing something new, or if there was something specific/tricky (a capitalized word, for example, or a specific letter combination that we've been working on) I wanted to point out in one of the later words so the kids were more conscious of it while they were writing it (students working ahead on their own might copy it correctly but not hear the "why are we capitalizing this word" conversation), but for the most part, if they seemed to be doing the work successfully, I wouldn't really see an issue with them working ahead.

[Momily]

I'd want to watch some more to see if this was part of a controlling personality, or a one time thing, for which she might have a good reason. I do think that sometimes kids need to learn a specific lesson such as waiting for all the instructions, and that enforcing it really consistently can be a good way to teach it. In fact, I just gave a test to my 1st graders and noticed that several kids lost marks for just that reason -- for example, we had an item where the direction was to "write the number that shows how many sides each shape has" and several kids wrote the name of the shapes instead.

I don't really see this as not being allowed to work ahead. Afterall as I understand the task, the child's going to be waiting for the other kids, either before he writes or after -- because of course he can't go onto the next word until the teacher announces it. So it's not the same as letting an academically talented kid finish (or skip) an assignment and move on to something more to their interest.

Was the teacher over-controlling in other ways?

[MattBronsil]

Originally Posted by greeny

I thought this was terrible! I think that if a child is capable of "working ahead" or whatever you want to call it, then she should be allowed - no, encouraged! - to do so. But when I've told friends about this, they've told me that it's more important that the kids are learning to follow rules, and that waiting for everyone is important. (I think following rules *is* important, but this is a really stupid rule, in my opinion. )

What are your thoughts on this?

Stupid rule in my opinion too. I would also look at how much free time they really have. I think a 3 hour free work period is optimal. I'm willing to bet that is the type of teacher that controls most of the daily activities, the time schedule, and how the entire day is run.

Matt

[greeny]

Was the teacher over-controlling in other ways?

She seemed really.... unkind, sort of.

For example, a few kids were whispering during the lesson, and instead of a gentle reminder to be quiet she was all, "Why are we talking over here? Huh? What's going on here? Why are we talking?" Like all in their faces and mean, really.

And at one point she was checking out one boy's work, and she said, "You're very, very behind, T" in a rather condescending tone.

There were lots of "little" things like that.

I was really turned off. This is kindergarten!

BUT I only sat in on the spelling/writing lesson, not the free-play part or anything else.

[Flor]

It depends on the reason. For example, in my class each day I give a mini-grammar lesson and then they do a page in the workbook. I can't tell you how many boys try to start working on the workbook page about half way through the (8 minute long) lesson. Their goal is to be the first one done. About 90% of the time it is incorrect because they aren't listening to the lesson. So in this case I don't want them to work ahead. There are other times where (like on Jeopardy) racing ahead will mean you don't hear the correct word/question. I'd want to know how she differentiates instruction for different levels. Do all the kids really need the same lesson on letters? I'd imagine there are some kids who are already reading and some who are just learning letters.

FWIW, my son is in Montessori, too.

[ChristaN]

Can you observe any of the other K teachers? It's amazing to me how much the teaching style can vary from one classroom to another even in the same school. I've reached the point where I just realize that I need to know who the teachers are and how they teach and advocate like crazy to make sure that my kids get the specific teachers we want (or at least don't get certain teachers).

[BCFD]

Originally Posted by greeny

She seemed really.... unkind, sort of.

For example, a few kids were whispering during the lesson, and instead of a gentle reminder to be quiet she was all, "Why are we talking over here? Huh? What's going on here? Why are we talking?" Like all in their faces and mean, really.

And at one point she was checking out one boy's work, and she said, "You're very, very behind, T" in a rather condescending tone.

There were lots of "little" things like that.

I was really turned off. This is kindergarten!

BUT I only sat in on the spelling/writing lesson, not the free-play part or anything else.

Ok, personally, there is no way I'd put my child into a class with a teacher that talks to the students like that. I have had experience with a preschool teacher who would bellow, "SIT DOWN LUCAS" instead of gently remind the child that he needed to return to his seat. He was 3 years old and it was totally disrespectful to the child. No wonder he didn't want to listen to her!!

And my oldest is also in a Montessori school. TOTAL mutual respect is a must.

[Momily]

Originally Posted by greeny

She seemed really.... unkind, sort of.

For example, a few kids were whispering during the lesson, and instead of a gentle reminder to be quiet she was all, "Why are we talking over here? Huh? What's going on here? Why are we talking?" Like all in their faces and mean, really.

And at one point she was checking out one boy's work, and she said, "You're very, very behind, T" in a rather condescending tone.

There were lots of "little" things like that.

I was really turned off. This is kindergarten!

BUT I only sat in on the spelling/writing lesson, not the free-play part or anything else.

To me the things you're mentioning here are a much bigger red flag than the working ahead issue. Is there another K class that's an option?

[blizzard_babe]

Originally Posted by Momily

To me the things you're mentioning here are a much bigger red flag than the working ahead issue. Is there another K class that's an option?

: The making students wait thing COULD have been a one-time thing, or at worst is something that could be annoying, but not a deal-breaker. But an unkind teacher... that's harder to get past.

[mommy68]

I feel that there is a time and a place for "rules" but yes most teachers I have experienced doing this type of thing and I don't agree with it but I also feel like in a class of 20 or so kids they need to do whatever works best for them. I'm sure they want the children in the class to do the work at the same time so other kids don't feel bad if they are slower than the rest. In this grade level I would think it's best if she incorporates the rule of all children doing it at the same time because other kids in class might feel inadequate or left out if they aren't doing it as quick as the others, so that's one good reason for her to have that rule.

I've seen kids in my DD's Kindergarten class this year that throw the biggest fits over simple things like other children finishing a paper before they do, other children walking in front of them (which makes there a need for forming lines), lots of little things. There are many little personalities in classrooms in a school so the teacher has to have rules or else they would never make it through the day in the time alloted. I would try and look at it from the teacher's point of view or even ask her 'why' she has a rule like that. You may find her answer is a very good reason for doing what she is doing.

I'm a homeschooler at heart but I have a lot of admiration for teachers. They do the best they can with a lot of kids on a daily basis. I would imagine if they didn't have some "rules" for the children to abide by then they would have one hectic day after another.

[mommy68]

Originally Posted by greeny

She seemed really.... unkind, sort of.

For example, a few kids were whispering during the lesson, and instead of a gentle reminder to be quiet she was all, "Why are we talking over here? Huh? What's going on here? Why are we talking?" Like all in their faces and mean, really.

And at one point she was checking out one boy's work, and she said, "You're very, very behind, T" in a rather condescending tone.

There were lots of "little" things like that.

That's different. You didn't mention this in your first post. I wouldn't agree with that type of talk either. No teacher should put down a child in front of the class. She should take them off by themself in another area of the classroom and discuss any issues with them, especially issues with their academics. I'd definitely have a problem with my child being called out and put down in front of others.

Perhaps this teacher was nervous because you were in the classroom. I can't imagine someone not being on their "best" behavior in front of a visiting parent, so if this is her "best" then I'd definitely be a little squeamish about it as well.

[greeny]

Well, we decided against that school for sure. So now it's between the Montessori and another awesome private school we visited a few days ago. I've been to six different schools so far! And we may end up homeschooling. I've decided that if dd doesn't like kindy or seems too stressed (she's really sensitive and rather socially resistant), I'll take her out and have her learn at home.

[kmeyrick]

The only risk in working ahead is that a lot of the time the kids may think they know what is coming next but they don't, and wind up getting confused. I would remind them kindly not to jump ahead, and I would prep them first. "Are we going to jump ahead?" "No." "Why?" "Because we may get confused."

When we do whole group counting, by say, fives, some kids are faster than others, and try to race ahead. Imagine trying to count by fives and some are at fifteen, others at thirty.