Circumcision - Page 3

[PassionateWriter]

Its amazing to me that there are mothers who have had sons circ'd and do not feel guilty about it. I have 3 sons, the first 2 who were circ'd for religious reasons...I have apologized to both of them. I feel horrible that I allowed them to suffer needlessly. Yes, when you know better, you do better...but how can one not feel guilt?

My partner is circ'd. He understands my opposition to it and would NEVER suggest such an unnecessary operation on our new baby. I just can't even imagine laying in bed beside him if he did. Its one of those issues, for me, that is a deal breaker. BUT, having said that, I fully discussed that prior to TTC..he KNOWS there is no way a son woudl be circ'd or vaxed. Period.

[two_sets_of_twins]

I had my first two sons circ'ed and do not feel any guilt, although I have been fully educated since my last son's birth. I do not see the point in beating myself up over something that I thought was right at the time. I do not regret ANYTHING in my life, even the stupid stuff I've done over the years. Regret serves no purpose and I would not be who I am today without the experiences I've had, including watching my son be circumcised. Yes...I watched. I felt it was important to be there to support him and I encourage any of my clients who are planning on it to be present because if they cannot even watch it, why are the having it done!?

I've also seen two other circumcisions in a pediatrician's office as a nursing student. As someone else mentioned, BOTH of the babies screamed hysterically when the doctor made the incision. No one could EVER convince me that those babies did not feel that pain - that was NOT just from being strapped down (as the doctor told one mother). Why would the baby all of a sudden freak out precisely at that moment, after already being strapped down for more than 5 minutes?

I will NOT have this baby (if it is a boy) circumcised, regardless of what my circ'ed husband has to say about it. Our agreement is that he won't have to change any diapers (his idea) if we don't circ. He does not have any good reason for not wanting it done other than the "look-like-me" argument. I've told him, very respectfully, that when he reads the research and gets educated, I would be happy to allow him to be part of the decision-making process. But until he chooses to be educated about it, rather than making a decision based on emotion and fear, I will be the one making the choice. And I am COMPLETELY willing to change every diaper for 2-3 years in order to keep my son intact. And my wonderful husband is the type who would get over it and be changing diapers within the first day or two in order to help me recover. I just pray he comes around eventually and can understand why it's such a big deal to me.

So there's my $0.02...enjoy. (Well...maybe it's more like $0.10!!!)

[DreamsInDigital]

One reason my DH is so staunchly against circ is that he remembers it being done to him. He was 5 or 6 years old and he was only given the topical anesthesia now sometimes given to newborns. This was back in the early 70's. He says he felt everything and it was so incredibly painful and the recovery was painful as well and he wasn't given so much as a Tylenol for afterwards, just like newborns. He was old enough to somewhat understand and it was so traumatic for him that he remembers every detail vividly. He says he can imagine what this would be like for a newborn who doesn't understand and instead only feels this terrible pain, he would never ever ever put a child through it. His mom waited so long because they couldn't come up with the money for it until so much later in his life. My DH (and I) wish she'd just left well enough alone, he never had any problems as a child with his foreskin.

[sarbear]

Originally Posted by two_sets_of_twins

I had my first two sons circ'ed and do not feel any guilt, although I have been fully educated since my last son's birth. I do not see the point in beating myself up over something that I thought was right at the time. I do not regret ANYTHING in my life, even the stupid stuff I've done over the years.

I feel the same way. You cannot change the past, you can only learn from it. When we are gentle with ourselves, I believe it allows us the opportunity to grow. Guilt is like anger to me, you have to let it pass through you and then let it go. If you carry those things around, you can never heal and you are lesser of a person because of it.

[kittywitty]

Originally Posted by Jörð

I didn't say that to offend anyone but I am entitled to say it. MDC does not support RIC and neither do I. I believe circumcision is emotionally as well as physically damaging. It's important to remember that there are lots of first time mothers here who won't benefit from any sugar coating.

Exactly. I wish desperately noone sugar coated it for me when my ds was circ'd. I was raised Jewish and never knew *not* circ'ing was even an option. Now, my ds has horrible meatal stenosis which causes constant infections, adhesions, scar tissue, bleeding and inability to urinate sometimes and incontinence. I hate myself now over it and have shed many tears and had to hold his hand after surgery and pull open his urethra to stop more scar tissue from forming. There is no sugar coating his pain or the pain of the other ~10+% of circ'd boys with this problem.

I regret every bit of that decision and my weakness to let it happen.

[triple07]

On a lighter note, that is an awesome pic of your "super cool babe"

[PassionateWriter]

Originally Posted by sarbear

I feel the same way. You cannot change the past, you can only learn from it. When we are gentle with ourselves, I believe it allows us the opportunity to grow. Guilt is like anger to me, you have to let it pass through you and then let it go. If you carry those things around, you can never heal and you are lesser of a person because of it.

I dont feel less of a person. Just like if i had spanked my children, I would imagine I would feel guilt and regret for doing such a thing. I think its important to acknowledge mistakes in life and apologize for those. Simply saying "he's circ'd and its all ok" is just not my line of thinking when it comes to circ. I have no idea the consequences.....is Erectile Disfunction related to circ? there is some evidence that is the case. Are my first 2 son's going to have sexual problems (or more than likely, their partners) b/c of my decision? Those are true concerns of mine. Its not as if I think about it every day but I am concerned about it and regret causing them, or their partners, potential problems. I don't think many ppl realize these things are major issues with circ. No, I don't want to see my newborn scream and in pain and can't imagine having him go through that, but there are also OTHER reasons besides the fact that newborns are going to be in pain (I try to keep pain away from my babies as much as possible, and don't allow any medical interventions...however, most of those things are very short lived and not "remmbered" (in teh normal sense of the term).

Im not necessarily saying this in direct response to anyone (re: long term consequences) but I do think anyone whose partner is attempting to have their son circ'd should really have that person research wat happens with circ., both short term and long term.

I mean, would you allow your partner to purchase a house w/o researchign anythnig? just b/c it looked like the house that he grew up in..no need to do an inspection, get an appraisal, etc. etc. That would be ludicrous! But its OK to cut a newborn baby w/o research? Circ. is an issue, to me, very similar to child birth. More ppl research cars and houses than circ. and child birth, but those things are the ones that really shape us and our families....the houses and cars are simply monetary.

[Expectingnumber3]

My son is circ'ed and I did NOT want it. I was weak and young and conceded to my husband's demands that his son look like him, even though I DID know what happened. Then after he was home and my husband saw DS's pain with every diaper change he admitted to being wrong and said we didn't have to do it. I was livid to say the least, because I had shown him all the info on it. This time will be different, if it's a boy he will not be circ'ed. I felt guilty for a long time about having it done to my baby, but there's not a lot I can do now. My sister is opposite me. She has an intact son, but only at the insistence of her husband, he's intact and refused to allow her to have him circ'ed. I told her that he was a smart man. The only problem is no one ever showed her how to clean an intact baby and he did get a bit of an infection because she didn't clean it properly. I'm not as "crunchy" as most of you I don't think, but I do agree on this.

[PassionateWriter]

an intact penis doesnt really need to be "taken care of". I just dont want anyone to think of retraction of an intact penis. my intact son was so much easier to take care of. if anyone needs info on that, the CAC forum has some wonderfully knowledgable ppl on it.

[triple07]

^ yeah i yelled at both my mum and MIL when they tried to pull the skin back to clean DS. He screamed and then I told them it wasn't necessary. Since then I and DH are the only ones to change his diaper. I had to show DH how to change dipe though...

[CindyCindy]

I am kind of curious about what exactly this thread is supposed to be about. Are we just trying to figure out who is for and against? OBVIOUSLY everybody is against, but besides a link to a video, nobody has provided any real information on the subject. I come to this website to get information so I can make better decisions for myself and my children. Yet everytime I look at these threads, all I see are opinions and no real answers to any questions. I realize we all want to say our side of the story and how everything makes us feel, but if we are tying to convice new mama's (and not sugar coat the information). . .why aren't we giving them information?

[Changed]

There is a whole forum of facts and information about circumcision here at MDC! It's called "The case against Circumcision" and it's a wealth of info. You should check it out.

[birthdancedoula]

Originally Posted by Jörð

There is a whole forum of facts and information about circumcision here at MDC! It's called "The case against Circumcision" and it's a wealth of info. You should check it out.

: The CAC forum is always the first place I go when I'm looking for info on any issue I've ever been researching with circ. Such great support there.

The OP was simply saying that it was great that so many of us are against RIC. It is such an emotional issue and we all have strong feelings about it, which I took to be the purpose of this thread. Certainly if any mama here had a question about circ or wanted more info I'd hope she'd speak up and ask.

[kittywitty]

Originally Posted by triple07

On a lighter note, that is an awesome pic of your "super cool babe"

Thanks.

Originally Posted by CindyCindy

I am kind of curious about what exactly this thread is supposed to be about. Are we just trying to figure out who is for and against? OBVIOUSLY everybody is against, but besides a link to a video, nobody has provided any real information on the subject. I come to this website to get information so I can make better decisions for myself and my children. Yet everytime I look at these threads, all I see are opinions and no real answers to any questions. I realize we all want to say our side of the story and how everything makes us feel, but if we are tying to convice new mama's (and not sugar coat the information). . .why aren't we giving them information?

There is the CAC board that was linked to in the OP.

[PassionateWriter]

Originally Posted by CindyCindy

I am kind of curious about what exactly this thread is supposed to be about. Are we just trying to figure out who is for and against? OBVIOUSLY everybody is against, but besides a link to a video, nobody has provided any real information on the subject. I come to this website to get information so I can make better decisions for myself and my children. Yet everytime I look at these threads, all I see are opinions and no real answers to any questions. I realize we all want to say our side of the story and how everything makes us feel, but if we are tying to convice new mama's (and not sugar coat the information). . .why aren't we giving them information?

seriously? when i discovered MDC over 3 years ago, i learned so much. i went into the case against circ. and learned why i shouldnt circ. my sons. i went to the VBAC and Homebirth forums and realized that hospitals are very dangerous places for me. I went to the vax forum and realized that I needed to learn about vaccinations, and ultimately decided to stop all vax's for my older children and never vax my son again (not due to what the ppl here said but due to the 15 books i read on the matter as a result of listening to what others here said). i went to the Gentle Discipline forum and learned that time outs did NOT work (not like i didnt know that) but also learned to consider why my children think about discipline and how best to accomodate their wants and needs while trying to make a peaceful life with them. i cant even remember all the other things i have learned from this board but its numerous....oh, about child led weaning and how important that is....i got tons of breastfeeding support. I guess i could go on and on and on and on. ...

but the DDC's....yeh, i think for the most part, these places are just for chit chat...There are so many forums here to go learn more about anythign ppl say here...its not as if we just pull it out or behinds.

planting a seed is a huge deal. plant it and watch it grow. if you plant a seed and spark someone's interest, they may start researching it. like "hey, there is really some evidence that circ. negatively affects a couple's sex life? I didnt know that...maybe Ill go to the CAC and look at the resources stickied there and see what these crazy ppl are talking about". planting a seed is what i try to do often (mostly for lurkers, mostly not in direct response to someone else..but sometimes i do or it may seem i do). spoon feed , though?? no, i don't feel the need or have the time to do that. I come here to learn, relax, and help others....probably all those equally. I cant provide link after link after link for everything i have learned and believe to date.

sorry if that sounds harsh but what you stated is just very surprising to me.

[triple07]

^ Ive been at MDC for about 2 months now and the change in me is immense. DH says I am obsessed with being on here, but there is such a wealth of knowledge on here on how to be a better mother, the best things for my children. I see something new on here almost every other day and then I go research until I can hold nothing else in my brain lol! And I am so grateful for that. And I do LOVE that the DDCs I can just come and chat like girlfriends lol.

[JBaxter]

Originally Posted by sarbear

I feel the same way. You cannot change the past, you can only learn from it. When we are gentle with ourselves, I believe it allows us the opportunity to grow. Guilt is like anger to me, you have to let it pass through you and then let it go. If you carry those things around, you can never heal and you are lesser of a person because of it.

All 3 of my boys are circ'd and I have educated myself and if this one is a boy will leave him intact but I am facing MAJOR opposition from guess who.... my 16 and 13yr olds. They threw a hissy fit and told me it was nasty not to circ. Ive tried to explaine things but they are not having it and tried to tell DH to make me do it... My DH said... Boys you know your mom if she says no then you should know better than try to have me change her mind

These are the same boys who was at my bed side when I delivered their younger brother and have requested attending this birth in October. They said theirs work find ( to which I ask how often they worked them and both turned red faced). I dont know about their future but they do both have very loose circs. ( or did as infant/toddlers)

[triple07]

Originally Posted by JBaxter

They said theirs work find ( to which I ask how often they worked them and both turned red faced)

priceless lol

[mkmb129]

Originally Posted by triple07

priceless lol

Oh yeah, score one for Mom! lol Oh, to be a fly on that wall..

[Turtlemum]

I just wanted to say that I find threads like this so helpful. The "chitchat" is so valuable. Just in this thread we have had people post links, I've read posts of women coming from so many different perspectives, circ'd some children not others, were going to circ and then didn't, some posters shared that they appreciated this type of thread when they were making their decision to circ or not, and there has been discussion re how different women feel/felt/dealt with their decision to circ/not circ. Some people found support if their partner/family were not supportive etc...

Anyways, I don't want to babble. I just wanted to say I appreciate hearing all different perspectives and all of the personal experience that doesn't get the same credit as academic type links etc.

I've beeb asked but some to share what was in the binder that I give to my clients. A list is coming...I've just been busy at births lately.

Thanks to all who have contributed to this thread and to my understanding.