Gentle discipline and forcing medication

[NoliMum]

I have just had it. DD has a UTI and we have to give her abx. We already started the dose, so even if we found an alternative, we still have to finish the rest of the doses.
DD (2 yo) resists something awful. We were wrapping her in a towel and just syringing it down her throat. She HATES it, of course, and so do we. Luckily once it's done she is fine- tears dry up quickly and she's ready to play- but I feel like it's going against the gentle parenting philosophy that we work so hard to live by.

Yesterday we got her to drink two sips of it from a "big girl cup." We were so happy that we didn't have to torture her anymore!

Well, today it didn't work. She just held the cup and refused to sip from it. I offered her the option- cup or syringe?- and she chose the syringe. Then she insisted on doing it herself, so I gave it to her and she squirted it all over the room. Now everything smells sticky sweet and there's no way I can clean it all.

I got so mad, I just said, "Okay, we'll try again later" and took it away. It was so hard not to yell. I have gone 2 years without any yelling, and I don't want to start now! But I'm so frustrated. I can't just pour it down the drain because she could end up with a worse UTI that is resistant to abx next time.

But I hate this. It makes me feel like a horrible mommy. I want to cry.

:

[mavery]

It is super difficult having to give medicine. How verbal is your dd? Can she talk through it with you? Understand why it's not negotiable?
I think even if she isn't, I would try to hold on to the idea that *because* it is totally exceptional for you to exert this much control over her, it may help her to understand ideas like "I want you to take the medicine so you get better. You need to keep taking it so that you don't get sicker and need MORE medicine".

At various stages with my ds I have just had to pop it into his mouth with as much verbal reassurance as possible, and when he was a little older I have talked through it with him and reached a point where he was willing to take the medicine.

Does the medicine taste really awful or does she just not like not having control over what's going into her body?

[Max'sMama]

I think that it is forgotten that you can practice GD and still be the parent. She needs medicine and you need to give it to her. Period. I wouldn't feel guilty. It is your job as mom to keep her healthy and the meds do this in this instance.

My idea is to say *happily* you can take this medicine or I will give it to you. No questions no exceptions no options. She doesn't take it, you hold her and give it to her. You are the mom, she is the child. GD preaches empathy and respect, right? You can empathize with your child, even the non-verbal one, that they don't want the medicine. Respect them by offering a choice for them to voluntarily take it. IF they choose not to, they can respect you by accepting that you will have to give it to them. Essentially forcing but you have offered the choices and what needs to be done needs to be done.

[mommy_e]

Do you think she is old enough to chew tablets? If so, call the Dr. and ask if they can prescribe it in tablet form - it would be OK to switch the form. Make sure they are giving you the most concentrated form, too, so there is less to get in and the dosing is twice a day or less. One last thing - the pharmacy may be able to add flavor for a couple dollars. I don't know if any of this will make it go down eaiser, but at least you can try.

[usandthegirls]

Originally Posted by Max'sMama

I think that it is forgotten that you can practice GD and still be the parent. She needs medicine and you need to give it to her. Period. I wouldn't feel guilty. It is your job as mom to keep her healthy and the meds do this in this instance.

My idea is to say *happily* you can take this medicine or I will give it to you. No questions no exceptions no options. She doesn't take it, you hold her and give it to her. You are the mom, she is the child. GD preaches empathy and respect, right? You can empathize with your child, even the non-verbal one, that they don't want the medicine. Respect them by offering a choice for them to voluntarily take it. IF they choose not to, they can respect you by accepting that you will have to give it to them. Essentially forcing but you have offered the choices and what needs to be done needs to be done.

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[laoxinat]

Most pharmacies can flavor meds with lots and lots of different flavors. They are artificial flavors, of course, but since they are temporary, and the consequences of NOT txing a UTI can be very bad indeed (kidney infection, stones, etc) that's something to consider. ITA as well that as mamas, we can cheerfully take charge, knowing it's temporary, and just get it over with. If you are more interested in a consensual solution, and they are possible with 2 y os, you might want to do a search on WuWei, (that's Pat), and she has a number of resources for giving meds consensually. HTHs!!

[NoliMum]

Thanks for the helpful advice, mamas.

I've tried giving her tablets before, but if she doesn't like them she will just chew and spit them out, and I can't stomach the idea of trying to force her to swallow food that's essentially been regurgitated. :Puke

The flavor really isn't that bad; DH and I have both tasted it, and it resembles bubble gum with a slightly bitter aftertaste. Certainly not one of the worst abx's they have out there. But DD eats mainly unsweet, bland foods like rice and beans and almost never has candy, so this must be a big assault on her taste buds.

She is verbal enough to string 3-4 words together, and each time we talk her through it, explaining that this medicine will make her healthy, she must take it or she may get sick, Mommy and Daddy take medicine too, etc... She can repeat "healthy" back to us but it's a concept I don't think she has the capacity to understand. Especially because she didn't feel sick in the first place. The only symptom of her UTI was an odor, so I can't say, "This medicine will stop xyz that makes you feel bad," know what I mean?

Also, she is 32 pounds so holding her down is very difficult. I have to pretty much swaddle her and hold her with my legs folded around her body, and then hold her head in the crook of my arm while I force the medicine into her mouth. I just feel like I am violating her.

Usually I have to get DH to help me, but with her morning doses I am on my own. As for the evenings, he doesn't want to do it himself because he is afraid he'll hurt her with his strength. It's hard to gauge resistance vs. harmful force when she is struggling so much.

Anyway, I know I'll have to get her to take it somehow, but I just feel sick every time...

[Carma]

For us the big difference was the taste. Some abx our DD had she struggled and we had to hold her down and others she was looking forward to have. Maybe you can ask a different flavor of the same medicine. Our DD seemed to like the brand name abx better than the generic ones.
Also you can try to mix it with something she likes to eat. If you mix it right before it should not affect the working.

Carma

[One_Girl]

There is really not a lot of choice in a case like this. If she doesn't get the antibiotic the UTI can go into her kidneys and do serious damage. When I had to give dd medicine forcefully I would make a big deal of how well she did and give her a really yummy treat afterwards to help her associate the syringe with good things, I think a treat and a lot of positive attention is crucial for times when you absolutely have to give a child medicine to prevent even worse medical problems down the road. I would also give her the option each time of letting me squirt the medicine into her mouth willingly or having me hold her to do it.

[Milkymommy]

Dd is 7 yrs old is is absolutley awful about taking medicine. I'm mostly just offering sympanthy since I've been there. The times that we have force medicated her she just spit out or puked up the med anyway. So it was convince her to take it or it was'nt happening.

My friends son is really bad about taking med too. When he was about 5 yrs old he was really sick and needed antibiotics. The doctor gave him the option of getting a shot and he actually choose that option! Some kids hate medicine that badly.

Okay, maybe I do have a helpful advice. One thing that has worked with my DD is to make a smoothie and take a small bit of the smoothie and mix the med in. You just want to make sure that she eats all of it. Some other parents that I know have had luck with mixing the med in with applesauce or yogurt.

[TheGirls]

Disclaimer: I don't have experience doing this with a child, but an elderly person with late-stage alzheimers is quite similar, except that force-feeding becomes nearly impossible, and reasoning is completely useless. And she had to take multiple daily pills. And had no teeth, lol. So we went with sneaking it in.

I'd suggest tablets - but don't feed them to her, crush them and put them in a small amount of a favorite food. Make sure she eats ALL of the food. Usually we'd use about 1-2 Tbsp of the food for grandma. You can probably switch the same med to a crushable or chewable tablet without too much trouble. For the food, something stronger flavored is probably best, even if it's not sweet. A food she absolutely loves will help too... We usually let her have more of the food after she polished off the first bit if she seemed interested, but didn't offer anything else until the medicated portion was gone.

A short list of the most successful things for grandma (who had a sweet tooth - more savory options might be better if DD doesn't):

Pudding
Applesauce
Yogurt
Mashed potatoes
Mashed carrots
Mashed sweet potatoes
Creamed corn
Oatmeal
Peanut

[MtBikeLover]

I feel your pain - my DD hates taking medicine and will actually choose a shot over having to take medicine if that is an option. Here are some things we do with her (but they don't always work!) and some things we used to do with our son (who actually loves medicine):

1 - Say "Let's race to see who can take it the fastest". I hold a little cup with pretend medicine in it for me. Then make a really big deal about them beating me.

2- Put some ice in it to make it colder.

3 - Have a snack ready so when she finishes it, she gets a special treat.

4 - Give her an option - Examples - would you like to take your medicine now or after snack? Would you like daddy to give it to you or mommy? Do you want to take your medicine in the kitchen or in bed?

5 - Give her some control over it - Do you want to help me pour your medicine?

6 - Turn it into a game - Can you take your medicine before I count to ten?

In the end, if it was serious (like a UTI is) I would resort to forcing it down if none of the other options worked.

Good Luck!

[OGirlieMama]

I bribed mine with grapes. Eventually they got to the point that they actually started to like the medicine. But maybe they are weird.

[gabysmom617]

I just wanted to chime in with another alternative to abx (although I realize you said that you have to finish giving them now that you have started them...)

Almost all UTI's are caused by bacteria entering the bladder from the lower intestine.

D-mannose adheres to the intestinal bacteria in the bladder and flushes it out. If you give consistant doses of d-mannose for about a week when you first suspect a bladder infection, then it will usually cure it (unless, by some rare incident, it's caused by a different kind of bacteria...)

D-mannose is a natural sugar found in cranberries and blueberries and a lot of other fruits....it is rapidly dispensed to the kidneys so that it doesnt cause a sugar high and is safe even for diabetics and children. (Although those fruits have it, taking d-mannose is better because it is a higher concentration of the sugar therefore making it more effective)

It doesn't have anything but a vague sweet taste and comes in powder form and you can put in into a cup of juice or water for your baby and she won't even know it's there.

I just thought that might help if she has frequent UTIs, or if you wanted to supplement with the abx. I just cured a bladder infection with dmannose...I got UTI's frequently, and now I rarely get them because I take d-mannose regularly.

[Mom2J]

I haven't had to do medicine lately, but when DS was much younger, up to around 1.5 yrs old, he had to take meds 2X a day. I learned, after much struggling, the easiest way for us-not saying it will work for everyone though- was to just make the whole thing super fast, no warning, and stick the syringe waaaaaaaaaaaay back, and aim towards the cheek- that way, they don't taste it as much. It seemed to me, the more I tried to prep him, the more it seemed like torture b/c of the anticipation. I'd get it ready, and say, in an upbeat voice, "medicine time!", squirt, and it was over so fast, he didn't have time to freak out. After a while, he became a champion meds taker, and actually liked it!

I know it sucks, but you have to do it, so all you can do is make it the least traumatic experience you can, you know? If you get really anxious about it, she will feed off of that, so try to be confident.

[NoliMum]

Thanks for even more advice. gabysmom I will definitely try that if she gets another UTI.

I think I am going to just have to surprise her with it. The mopre I reason, make it "fun,"offer choices, etc, the harder it gets. When I give it to her in a cup she will just hold it forever, and if I make a move to help tilt it, she'll jolt and spill it.

*sigh* We're almost done, just a couple doses left.

[anhaga]

We have tried almost every trick. Bottom line is the child needs to take the medicine. Establishing boundaries is fine. There are times a child must follow a parent's lead. Glad you only have a couple doses left. Hope you don't have to do this again for a long long time.

[MommyTorf]

My son has ringworm in his scalp (an absolute nightmare, but that's a story for another day...) and we have to give him 3 tsp of medication every morning for 6-8 weeks. It's absolutely killing me.

We were able to hide it in a yogurt smoothie for the first week, but then he saw grandma putting the med into the smoothie. So, we have to hold him and force it into him (2 syringes full). It sucks, but the huge, itchy, scaly, red BALD patch on his head is worse.

I really wanted to be the kind of parent that doesn't "bribe" or "reward" for things, but I feel so guilty about the whole mess that I've been letting him have a Little Debbie Snack Cake Brownie (with rainbow sprinkles) for breakfast every morning .

I've decided that sometimes you just have to do what you have to do.