Where do you put your toddler for "time out?"

[zulupetalz]

We recently had our second child and our almost 2 year old son has started acting out more (hitting, kicking, etc.) I've read that you aren't supposed to use their crib as a time out space. I tried the pack and play instead, but I put him in it yesterday and he had pulled the mattress out of the bottom and was chuckling to himself. What do most of you do?

[alegna]

Time outs are in no way appropriate at 2 years old.

-Angela

[jeliphish]

I don't do a "time out" perse. I have started doing a "removal from the area." For example, DD gets mad and throws a rock at (usually the dog). If I don't intercept the rock first, I will go to her, pick her up and say "hurt lillie (dog)". I try not to say "do not throw rocks" because all she will hear is "THROW ROCKS." I will take her to her room and set her down and say "Rocks hurt Lillie". and stay with her for about a minute. Then I bring her back in the room and say once again, "rocks hurt Lillie". It usually works 9 out of 10 times and she is off to hug the poor dog and play with something else. I may save time out for when she is older, like 5. At this age, reasoning does not work because they have low capacity to feel true empathy because of the frontal lobe development. They don't usually give a crap that they just bit you, they only care that you pissed them off. They are completely self serving and think the world is out to serve them...completely normal and acceptable. Putting them in timeout now usually only increases their tantrums and will make them even more frustrated 3 year olds. Adults have the luxury of feeling all these emotions and having an outlet...I get pissed off at my husband and I can complain about it at work. If I am anxious or scared about something, I can go to my mom or my friends or my husband. Toddlers feel all these emotions and HAVE NO OTHER OUTLET THAN You. So YOU are the one they are in love with, their friend, their enemy, their coworker, their boss, their lifeline, etc. I think the key to maintaining their behaviors when they are acting out is short, and to the point redirection. Anything more is just going to cause a meltdown.

[zulupetalz]

" don't do a "time out" perse. I have started doing a "removal from the area."

Isn't that basically a "time out?" That is what I mean.

Anyhow, that is what my 2 y.o. does, too. When I tell him, "no hitting," he will repeat me over and over again, pretty much while he continues to hit me. I feel like I need to do something else to correct the behavior before he starts hitting my 1 mos old.

[zulupetalz]

Originally Posted by alegna

Time outs are in no way appropriate at 2 years old.

-Angela

Um. Ok, then. What do you recommend for that type of behavior?

[fek&fuzz]

Originally Posted by zulupetalz

" don't do a "time out" perse. I have started doing a "removal from the area."

Isn't that basically a "time out?" That is what I mean.

Anyhow, that is what my 2 y.o. does, too. When I tell him, "no hitting," he will repeat me over and over again, pretty much while he continues to hit me. I feel like I need to do something else to correct the behavior before he starts hitting my 1 mos old.

Could you say "gentle, gentle" instead? Rather than focusing on what you don't want him to do, focus on the behavior that you want to encourage. Have him pet the baby nicely, and say "gentle. oh, the baby loves it when you are gentle." It also sounds like he might need some "Time in" with you, without the baby around. Maybe in the evenings your partner could spend time with the baby while you and your son do a "mama and big boy" thing.

and, your kids are so cute!

[HollyBearsMom]

I agree w/ the PP that 2 is WAY too young for timeouts!!

We do cool down time for my son. We started at maybe 4? 4 1/2? He has some sensory issues so we have a quiet place in the living room w/ a big old beanbag chair, books, some handheld water toys and other sensory minded toys. When he is getting wound up/out of control he can go there and refocus himself.

For your young one I think you just need to keep modeling and talking about proper behavior. If he hits his sibling you need to redirect him and keep telling him "Hitting hurts. We do not hit." It is more about creating a safe environment for all parties. Also make sure he gets plenty of one on one time with you too. That can help a lot.

[Selesai]

Originally Posted by KylieLove06

I don't do a "time out" perse. I have started doing a "removal from the area." For example, DD gets mad and throws a rock at (usually the dog). If I don't intercept the rock first, I will go to her, pick her up and say "hurt lillie (dog)". I try not to say "do not throw rocks" because all she will hear is "THROW ROCKS." I will take her to her room and set her down and say "Rocks hurt Lillie". and stay with her for about a minute. Then I bring her back in the room and say once again, "rocks hurt Lillie". It usually works 9 out of 10 times and she is off to hug the poor dog and play with something else. I may save time out for when she is older, like 5. At this age, reasoning does not work because they have low capacity to feel true empathy because of the frontal lobe development. They don't usually give a crap that they just bit you, they only care that you pissed them off. They are completely self serving and think the world is out to serve them...completely normal and acceptable. Putting them in timeout now usually only increases their tantrums and will make them even more frustrated 3 year olds. Adults have the luxury of feeling all these emotions and having an outlet...I get pissed off at my husband and I can complain about it at work. If I am anxious or scared about something, I can go to my mom or my friends or my husband. Toddlers feel all these emotions and HAVE NO OTHER OUTLET THAN You. So YOU are the one they are in love with, their friend, their enemy, their coworker, their boss, their lifeline, etc. I think the key to maintaining their behaviors when they are acting out is short, and to the point redirection. Anything more is just going to cause a meltdown.

This is really interesting info re: their mental development. Where did you learn it?

[jeliphish]

Originally Posted by zulupetalz

" don't do a "time out" perse. I have started doing a "removal from the area."

Isn't that basically a "time out?" That is what I mean.

Anyhow, that is what my 2 y.o. does, too. When I tell him, "no hitting," he will repeat me over and over again, pretty much while he continues to hit me. I feel like I need to do something else to correct the behavior before he starts hitting my 1 mos old.

Try saying, "that hurts mommy." Positive redirection works a lot better. When I tell DD when we go in a store that has a lot of breakables, "touch nothing," almost 97% of the time she just looks and babbles to me pointing without touching or breaking everything in sight. When I used to say, "don't touch anything," she would reach for everything. I honestly think it was because when I used the negative version of the redirection she only heard "touch anything."
It is not an overnight change, it is frustrating as hell but the consistancy is the cure. Eachtime he does this, try saying, "that hurts mommy." take him to another room that is not as visually stimulating (a boring grown up room) and repeat, "hitting hurts mommy." Take him back in the playroom/living room after a minute or two and say again, "hitting hurts mommy." I guess it can be classified as a time out but it is a together time out and I am with her, verses me fighting her to stay in a corner or in her crib alone and crying...which only makes her madder. I wish I could have video taped the before and after, because I promise it works.

[runes]

this probably isn't what you want to hear, but what you are describing is fairly normal behavior for a child your ds's age, especially for a toddler that just welcomed a new sibling into the family. this 'acting out' might even escalate over the course of the next few months.

you can either choose to use time outs, which is a form of punishment and control, or you can choose to try to understand and empathize with your little boy who is currently experiencing big emotions and big changes without having the cognitive or communicative abilities to process it.

and as alegna pointed out, a time out for a 2 year old is basically futile. fekfuzz also mentioned some positive techniques to encourage gentle touch as well as to give your ds some time special alone with both you and your partner.

congratulations on the new little one!

[zulupetalz]

Pretty much everything I have done seems futile, really. I know it is sort of expected given his stage and new sibling, etc. I just feel like, omg, it is getting worse and worse and maybe it is because I am not doing something I should be. YKWIM? When I tell him "no hitting" and "be gentle" and things like that and he continues to hit me, it just feels like I am failing, you know?

[ctdoula]

I use a chair in the kitchen. I do not think that a "time out" (removal from situation, whatever you want to call it) is inappropriate for a 2yr old, especially one who is hitting and not listening to the "gentle" mantra.

[jeliphish]

Originally Posted by Selesai

This is really interesting info re: their mental development. Where did you learn it?

I will have to find the info. It was presented in several of my human develoment courses in college and interestingly enough, a detailed version of the information in a child abuse investigations/prevention course that I took last November. It was a study that included scans of the toddler brain and an explination of why and how certain behaviors are exhibited at certain times in a child's life. Statistically toddlers experience a higher rate of child abuse and the study delved into why this occured. Most parents who had abused their young children reported that it was their behaviors that made them "beat them" or soak them in a tub of boiling water, or tie them up with a phone cord. The study was used to show that toddler behaviors were more excessive because that was how nature intended it and that a toddler was by nature, narcessistic. Many of the already "at risk" parents don't have the knowledge, patience, or community/family support to learn how to properly deal with the highly "spirited" toddler, and write them off as being a bad child.
Anyway, not to get too much into it, or I will be writing a novel....
Our toddlers, mentally, are like little Hanebal Lectors, and that is OK . They can show sadness and embarassment and other emotions but it is because they are feeling these emotions for themselves, not for the baby brother or sister, or family pet they just beat with a bat.

[Benji'sMom]

I can only speak about my kids, that at almost 2 years old, and even any younger than 4 years old, they would NOT understand what time out was for and it would accomplish absolutely nothing. It was more effective to redirect. Just making them stand in a corner, they wouldn't get it and it would be totaly futile. We did sometimes use what we call "break time" which is I think what Kylielove06 is describing, the difference between this and time out is that you are with them, still interacting with them, even though you remove them from the situation to defuse the building up of emotion, it is not a punishment and you are not leaving them alone, it is just a way to go to a quiet room and cool down *together*.

[maryeb]

Sounds like very normal behavior to me too. Ds is a few months older than yours, but for a very long time and still once in a while now I need(ed) to repeat "be gentle" over and over. He will get it, it just takes a while. I agree with pp that modeling the behavior is great, showing him exactly what you need/mean for him to do instead of what not to do. Always use the positive like, "be gentle", or "you can throw that rock at the fence", instead of saying something like "no hitting, "no throwing", etc. We also use the phrase "I will not let you hurt me, hitting hurts." If he keeps hitting me/spraying me with water, etc. I remove myself from the situation. Ds has a lot of empathy for me and others, he is very sensitive. Your ds will get there. Mary

[Norasmomma]

I don't think a time out is inappropriate for a 2 year old, we sit our DD who is 18 months down for a "time out" for 1 minute, that is all. It is more of a cool down time for her and for DH and myself. DD is very headstrong and if making her sit down for a second to chill out helps the situation I am all for it. I do other forms of redirection and gentle discipline, but I really believe that sometimes some kids do need that little break, and I will continue to do so.

[becoming]

I think you would get a lot of useful tools and resources if you posted this same thread over on the Gentle Discipline forum.

[alegna]

At two they can't really control their impulses and it's not fair to expect them to.

As to what to do instead of a time out- punishment is not the answer. The answer is to of course avoid the situation when possible, redirect, empathize, try to figure out triggers and give appropriate outlets.



-Angela

[ssh]

There's a book on infant and child brain development and how parenting choices effect it. It's The Science of Parenting by Margot Sunderland. It has a section on the harmful effects of using timeouts on toddlers.

[Llyra]

At that age, sometimes DD1 and I would go have a "time-in" together. I'd sit her down on the bottom step of our stairway, and sit next to her, and we'd sit together and talk about what happened. I'd do this after she'd had a tantrum or outburst and needed to process what happened. We still do that today, and now sometimes I'll find her sitting there on her own, reading a book or whatever, when she knows she's fried and needs to settle herself.

I like that kind of time out better than a punitive one.