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Where do you put your toddler for "time out?" - Page 2

post #21 of 54
I don't know if anyone already mentioned this, but the book "Easy to Love: Difficult to Discipline" is an awesome book. It might really help you out. We also don't do time outs. If my dd (2 1/2) pushes her brother I say something like "DD, you wanted your brother to move, so you pushed him. Pushing is not ok. Pushing hurts. If you want him to move, say "mama, move db" (the baby is too young to move himself) and I will move him. Try it now."


Occasionally, now that we have been doing this for a week or so, she does use her words, rather than pushing. She's getting it. You need to teach your child what is appropriate, rather than punishing for what's not.

Anyways, I can't explain it all here, but maybe check the book out of a library and read it. It's a super book.
post #22 of 54
well our son is VERY spirited and sometimes no matter how often we tell him not to do something or re-direct him or explain things to him, he'll look at us with a sly look on his face and do it over and over and over. or he hits kids at the library etc. he's 2! i get that it's normal, but it's still not acceptable.
he gets removed from the situation and we count to ten with him to calm down. by the time we get to 10 he's alright and usually does a lot better. we do this while getting down on his level and looking him in the eyes. at home we use the kitchen chair if he's really not listening, and we get down on his level and count with him. it works well for our family. sometimes if he is wound up or knows he has done something that he probably shouldn't have, he'll start counting by himself to calm down.
post #23 of 54
I think you have to follow your heart when you choose how to teach your son. Honestly, I know many say that redirection works and that "time out" is inappropriate at that age but only you know your son and if this will work for him. I posted a couple of weeks ago in GD about different things my 13 month old is doing and how I'm trying redirection, all age appropriate, etc. and I didn't get any useful advice, just judgment....

So, I finally told him "no" when he hit another kid in the face. He stopped and looked at me and didn't do it again. I explained that he was hurting the other little one and "please use gently touches"....so far this is working. I will say that I believe telling my son "no" only worked because he is not used to hearing it...and so he understood I was serious.

So, what I'm trying to say is that there are tons of books that will give you all "expert" advice... some useful and some not. Trust your instincts as a mama!!!

GL.
post #24 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by ryleeee View Post
he gets removed from the situation and we count to ten with him to calm down. by the time we get to 10 he's alright and usually does a lot better. we do this while getting down on his level and looking him in the eyes.
That's great! It sounds like a form of "time in" that works really well for you. You're interrupting the behavior, connecting with him, and teaching him strategies for calming HIMSELF when he starts getting upset.

"Time outs" don't really work like that. Ideally, they act like a cooling off period, but when they're imposed externally, in a punitive manner (and who isn't going to be inclined to speaking crossly to their kid who is hurting their baby or their dog?), without connection, that isn't what they do. The child, especially a toddler, is usually left alone and frustrated, without their underlying needs being met. Either they're going to get even more angry or upset, and learn only that their parent doesn't love them/want them (which will make them be inclined to act out even more - and not to say that using time-outs means you DON'T love your kids, just that that is a very common way kids interpret such an act), or they're just going to play in the new space, and learn nothing - which isn't all that bad! Redirection and removal are good strategies for dealing with unacceptable behavior in a two year old, who simply does not (cannot!) have good impulse control yet. But expecting them to seem "remorseful", to have "learned something from the punishment", or that removal will prevent the behavior in the future is just unrealistic.

It is crazy hard to be dealing with a child who is hitting, not listening, behaving unsocially, etc, but there are no magic bullets. Redirection, removal, distraction, positive phrasings - these things are not quick fixes. They're about getting through the day (stopping your child's hand before they can hit), and long term pay-off (having a deep, respectful connection with your child that lasts for years, so you have a prayer of them still talking to you as teenagers!). But just because you can't "fix" the behavior right now doesn't mean you're a failure. Far from it. All you can do is the best you can in the moment, keeping in your sights the higher goal of creating a respectful, gentle relationship with your child. We need to do what we can to survive the day, of course, but we also need to evaluate how much doing "what works" (or just "doing something", whether it helps or not, which is the category I would usually put "time outs" into) is worth potentially losing something more important.

post #25 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by alegna View Post
Time outs are in no way appropriate at 2 years old.

-Angela
They are completely appropriate in my house.

Sometimes my two year old gets completely wrapped up in whatever she is doing and can not be redirected without having her sit down and listen to me. That is when we give her a time out.

We give a warning first and do not abuse time outs. They are only to be used in specific instances. Like if she bites, hits, or acts destructive purposely. And again, she is warned if the behavior continues she will be put in the time out chair.

OP:

To answer your question, we usually use a foamy sofa we bought her a while back that folds out into a bed. Other times we use a kid size chair.

I have seen people use a rug or time out spot that could be moved from room to room.

DD only has time outs in our presence (we dont' have her in time out in one room while we are in another) so that usually involves moving the chair to the room we are in.
post #26 of 54
Time outs (unless used as time ins as mentioned) are a punitive punishment and in no way appropriate for toddlers.

-Angela
post #27 of 54
I agree with Angela. I think at 2, the parent should we working with the child to prevent the behaviour in the future, figure out what the problem is, how to solve it, etc.
post #28 of 54
I agree with Angela. I think at 2, the parent should we working with the child to prevent the behaviour in the future, figure out what the problem is, how to solve it, etc.

I think if the 2 year old is hitting because the baby is in her way, help her thinks of strategies to cope with the situation.

I don't think time outs are abusive but they do not equip the child with the tools or strategies they need to navigate sticky situations.
post #29 of 54
what has worked for me is to re-connect with dd if she is acting out. there are times when she is worked up and needs to scream/run out her frustration first, but when she is done we cuddle and only then can we talk about it.

in the wonderful book "Hold on to Your Kids" it describes in detail how misbehavior is a sign that our kids need to connect with us. i find that to be spot on for us. when my dd acts out, it is often when i have been busy busy busy and not spent much time with her. i know we are all busy but just a couple of minutes of reconnecting before talking about what she did wrong has done wonders for our relationship.

it can be very hard to feel loving after dd has done something that annoys me, but i feel this is the only true way to deal with the misbehavior. i take a deep breath and then do what i least feel like doing: i give her a hug. i find that it helps to calm ME as well.
post #30 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by zulupetalz View Post
We recently had our second child and our almost 2 year old son has started acting out more (hitting, kicking, etc.) I've read that you aren't supposed to use their crib as a time out space. I tried the pack and play instead, but I put him in it yesterday and he had pulled the mattress out of the bottom and was chuckling to himself. What do most of you do?
Why did the person suggest that you aren't supposed to use a crib? I ask because I'm curious what difference a child sees in a crib and a pack and play.

I agree with others that your child is too young for time outs. It's hard with another little one, but a better approach (by far) is too be there, be present, and help your child work through his feelings that are leading him to do things that you disapprove of. He's two. He's so young. He's a baby still. It may not seem that way since you have a much younger baby in the house, but it's not fair to him that at two you expect him to behave in a way that is hard for much older children to behave. Work with him. Be creative in how you approach it. As the parent, be there - be with him.

When you put a two year old in time-out, he doesn't learn that he shouldn't hit or kick. He learns that his mother doesn't want to be around him (and he sees you being with the baby). One of the most important things to keep in mind in relationships, especially parenting, is that what you say (what you mean for them to hear) is not always what they hear. What you mean for them to "get" from your actions (like a time-out) is *rarely* what they "get". Real connection is key. Isolation is easy... for now. But you're teaching him things, and I believe breaking your connection with him, and this will hurt your relationship in ways that you may not see for years to come, and if it comes that late (say a decade from now), how are you going to heal it then?

Peace.
post #31 of 54
We don't do "time outs" with DS2 (3.5) either.

IMO, time "out" is a fairly advanced concept.... even my 10yo has a hard time with it sometimes, although he's getting to the point now where I can encourage him to go read a book or something when he seems to be getting overly-stressed. It's still something that has only become helpful for him in the last year.

With toddlers, I think it really has to be a time "in" to be effective at all. They need that sense of support from you to guide them through whatever is bothering them, which time-outs don't provide. Telling them to go sit in a chair and "think about it" is just setting yourself up for more stress, ime.

Ryleee's description is pretty much what I do, which can be done anywhere. I know it's hard with a baby (well, honestly, I don't... never had 2 under 2, but I can imagine), but I think it would be best to abandon the idea of a time "out" and figure out a time "in" that works for you guys.

ime, the eye-to-eye contact is crucial. I don't know why, but it's like a hypnotic code to toddlers..... "look into my eyes..... ...... seriously, now, stop trying to ride the dog........ "
post #32 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arwyn View Post
That's great! It sounds like a form of "time in" that works really well for you. You're interrupting the behavior, connecting with him, and teaching him strategies for calming HIMSELF when he starts getting upset.

"Time outs" don't really work like that. Ideally, they act like a cooling off period, but when they're imposed externally, in a punitive manner (and who isn't going to be inclined to speaking crossly to their kid who is hurting their baby or their dog?), without connection, that isn't what they do. The child, especially a toddler, is usually left alone and frustrated, without their underlying needs being met. Either they're going to get even more angry or upset, and learn only that their parent doesn't love them/want them (which will make them be inclined to act out even more - and not to say that using time-outs means you DON'T love your kids, just that that is a very common way kids interpret such an act), or they're just going to play in the new space, and learn nothing - which isn't all that bad! Redirection and removal are good strategies for dealing with unacceptable behavior in a two year old, who simply does not (cannot!) have good impulse control yet. But expecting them to seem "remorseful", to have "learned something from the punishment", or that removal will prevent the behavior in the future is just unrealistic.

It is crazy hard to be dealing with a child who is hitting, not listening, behaving unsocially, etc, but there are no magic bullets. Redirection, removal, distraction, positive phrasings - these things are not quick fixes. They're about getting through the day (stopping your child's hand before they can hit), and long term pay-off (having a deep, respectful connection with your child that lasts for years, so you have a prayer of them still talking to you as teenagers!). But just because you can't "fix" the behavior right now doesn't mean you're a failure. Far from it. All you can do is the best you can in the moment, keeping in your sights the higher goal of creating a respectful, gentle relationship with your child. We need to do what we can to survive the day, of course, but we also need to evaluate how much doing "what works" (or just "doing something", whether it helps or not, which is the category I would usually put "time outs" into) is worth potentially losing something more important.

THIS! Thanks Arwyn that's a beautiful post!
post #33 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by zulupetalz View Post
Pretty much everything I have done seems futile, really. I know it is sort of expected given his stage and new sibling, etc. I just feel like, omg, it is getting worse and worse and maybe it is because I am not doing something I should be. YKWIM? When I tell him "no hitting" and "be gentle" and things like that and he continues to hit me, it just feels like I am failing, you know?
I Know, but the time out will only worsen the situation. I had my third LO when my second was 16 months and it was HECTIC. Just give your LO ALOT of love and attention, he's going through a very difficult time.
post #34 of 54
From someone that used to do punitive time-outs....they don't work. They are a form of punishment and do nothing to teach. Timeouts had a major negative effect on my son and did absolutely nothing to stop the hitting.

Once we stopped doing timeouts (around 3) and found more gentle, respectful ways of dealing with misbehavior, things got so much better.
post #35 of 54
Further alienating a child who obviously needs attention is not going to fix the problem. The only time-outs we use around here are for me! lol
post #36 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by Niamh View Post
Why did the person suggest that you aren't supposed to use a crib? I ask because I'm curious what difference a child sees in a crib and a pack and play.
When I've read that in the past it has to do with not making the sleep space a punishment space.

-Angela
post #37 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by alegna View Post
When I've read that in the past it has to do with not making the sleep space a punishment space.

-Angela
Ah. So the pack and play is the punishment space. Gotcha.
post #38 of 54
If by time out, you mean "Go chill a while".. anywhere is good. The couch, his bedroom, your bed..

But, if you mean "Sit in that corner and think about what you have done" That kind of time out doesn't work very well.

ALL kids need time out though. Even very little kids need some time to gather themselves, and just hang out alone. Especially when they are frustrated. Some kids just want to lay in their bed and listen to music. Whatever he needs to regroup. But, just don't make it a punishment.
post #39 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by wendyjoe View Post
Further alienating a child who obviously needs attention is not going to fix the problem. The only time-outs we use around here are for me! lol
I agree with you. And I love *my* time-outs, btw
post #40 of 54
Someone else already mentioned that two years have no impulse control or empathy because their frontal lobes are still developing. How we treat our LOs influences their mental development. Pain, rage, and fear are lower brain functions. So when your toddlers hits his younger sibling he is probably afraid and hurt over having to share you. Then when you isolate him by using a timeout, he feels pain and fear again. So your only engaging his lower brain functions. When you empathize with him and help him deal with his jealous fear and pain you are helping him to develop emotionally so he'll be able to empathize eventually.
There's a book, Science of Parenting by Margot Sunderland that's about brain development in babies and children. She tells about how we treat our children effects their brain development, including the ability to be an emotionally mature adult. The paperback version is called What Every Parent Needs to Know. Here's a link to more info on the book http://style.uk.msn.com/family/askth...mentid=5745727 .
We of course don't do timeouts. I do occasionally do a form of time in. I just pick up my two year old and hold her while I talk to her be about being gentle or whatever the situation calls for.
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