Intact care guidlines from the early 80's?

[s_kristina]

My mom will be coming down to help before this little boy is born and I want to cover all my bases. My brothers were intact, but I don't know what she was told about care for them as infants in the early 80's. I really don't want to be rude telling her what care is now and I don't know if she will even change diapers or care for the bigger boy while she is here. I'm hoping as recently as the 80's she was told to just leave it alone, but I'm just not sure. Any good links on why to leave it alone would be great too. I know I've read them all, but I have no clue where I found them at.

[Twinklefae]

Well, I know that here when they first started leaving boys intact (government health care stopped paying) they were telling parents to retract at every diaper change. I have several friends who were circ'd at 5 or so.

Honestly, I'd just pull the nervous mother card "I know you probably know this mom, but I'm just double checking because it's so important." Yk?

[trmpetplaya]

My dh was born in the early 80s (in CA) and he remembers retracting himself for the first time at age 5. I'm inferring that means that he wasn't retracted at all before then. I would ask, but his mother isn't around to ask anymore

If I were you, I would quickly go over intact care with her anyhow. I would start off by just asking her what she was told to do with your brothers. I'm sure she won't take offense. Standards of care do change and you have her grandson's best interests in mind, after all

love and peace.

[hakunangovi]

DS was born in '81. We were told to gently retract at each bath. Friends were told to leave it alone. I think the doctor's recommendations for penile care were all over the map, but I suspect most were still advising retraction.

I think the previous posters gave some very good advice - to just nicely mention to your Mom that his foreskin should not be manipulated in any way.

Congratulations on your most sensible decision to leave him intact !!

[UUMom]

My ds was born in '89, and we knew to leave it alone. I don't remember who told us that...maybe Mothering? Maybe my own mil (who had 5 intact boys). Maybe my dh? But we knew without a doubt, and so did our health care providers.

[glongley]

There was a study in Utah from the early 1980s (Osborn and Metcalf Pediatrics 1981;67(3): 365-7 ) which looked at in the information parents were given re: hygiene of the intact infant. This is from the abstract:

"Pediatricians' advice concerning hygiene varied greatly. Most counseled mothers to retract the foreskin and clean the child, but few (22%) knew when this could be readily accomplished. None of the mothers of uncircumcised children had been told when the foreskin could be expected to retract, and only half had been given any advice concerning hygiene."

This was almost 30 years ago.

I just heard from John Geisheker today (lawyer for Doctors Opposing Circumcision) of a survey done THIS YEAR (2008) at the American Academy of Family Physicians' annual meeting in Kansas City, including 13 FP docs, 45 FP residents, and 55 medical students. The results showed that out of the 113 surveyed only 3 (2%) knew the correct care of the intact boy.

Yikes!

Gillian

[MCatLvrMom2A&X]

With ds I just told mom that I wasnt sure if she knowed it or not but you should never push the skin back ever. My older brother was intact until 3yo and she said she never retracted but the dr did at visits.

When dh took ds to his parents the first time without me I made sure to drill it in his head before he left that when mil changed him to tell her to not other his penis other than wiping it off like a finger. Lucky enough when ds went poo it didnt get on his penis I think mil was thrilled

[Fellow Traveler]

Originally Posted by glongley

There was a study in Utah from the early 1980s (Osborn and Metcalf Pediatrics 1981;67(3): 365-7 ) which looked at in the information parents were given re: hygiene of the intact infant. This is from the abstract:

"Pediatricians' advice concerning hygiene varied greatly. Most counseled mothers to retract the foreskin and clean the child, but few (22%) knew when this could be readily accomplished. None of the mothers of uncircumcised children had been told when the foreskin could be expected to retract, and only half had been given any advice concerning hygiene."

This was almost 30 years ago.

I just heard from John Geisheker today (lawyer for Doctors Opposing Circumcision) of a survey done THIS YEAR (2008) at the American Academy of Family Physicians' annual meeting in Kansas City, including 13 FP docs, 45 FP residents, and 55 medical students. The results showed that out of the 113 surveyed only 3 (2%) knew the correct care of the intact boy.

Yikes!

Gillian

My god, what a crime. Gillian, how could it be that bad when even the AAP guide is by and large not too far off the mark?

[Frankly Speaking]

Originally Posted by jwhispers

My god, what a crime. Gillian, how could it be that bad when even the AAP guide is by and large not too far off the mark?

The prevailing wisdom at the time and up until the late 1990's was that infants had to be helped along with retraction. Evidence of that is the large number of doctors that still advocate the practice. Until only recently, it was proposed that not retracting and cleaning amounted to poor hygiene and would contribute to infections and ultimately, penile cancer. Indeed, until just recently, smegma was said to be a carcinogen. (cancer causing agent)

In less than a decade, we have come so far!


Frank

[njeb]

Originally Posted by glongley

There was a study in Utah from the early 1980s (Osborn and Metcalf Pediatrics 1981;67(3): 365-7 ) which looked at in the information parents were given re: hygiene of the intact infant. This is from the abstract:

"Pediatricians' advice concerning hygiene varied greatly. Most counseled mothers to retract the foreskin and clean the child, but few (22%) knew when this could be readily accomplished. None of the mothers of uncircumcised children had been told when the foreskin could be expected to retract, and only half had been given any advice concerning hygiene."

This was almost 30 years ago.

I just heard from John Geisheker today (lawyer for Doctors Opposing Circumcision) of a survey done THIS YEAR (2008) at the American Academy of Family Physicians' annual meeting in Kansas City, including 13 FP docs, 45 FP residents, and 55 medical students. The results showed that out of the 113 surveyed only 3 (2%) knew the correct care of the intact boy.

Yikes!

Gillian

:
This corresponds perfectly with my experience. My two sons, born in 1979 and 1987, were left intact. I was given so many conflicting instructions from doctors, nurses, midwives, and relatives that I just scratched my head and did what I thought best, which was to leave them alone most of the time. Yes, I did retract them occasionally, : but there was NO information available to me. Fortunately, they survived my errors and are intact to this day.

[thixle]

I have intact brothers born in 1976 and 1983. For all of them, the parents were told to retract, and SCRUB with soap and water. Thank you Granny for setting them straight! She said that if the babies cried, then you were doing it wrong Ah, common sense... I love my Granny

[s_kristina]

Thanks for all the idea and info everyone. I've been disgustingly sick with a stomach bug since I posted this or I would have been back sooner. I'll see about pulling up some intact care pages and go with the "you probably know this already" approach. I'm really disgusted to see how few doctors even today know correct intact care information. Then again my dad was just circ'd not that long ago mainly due to bad information from a doctor that I wouldn't trust to tell me if I was running a fever. From what I found out after the fact my dad did have a problem and it probably started back as a baby in 1950 being retracted at diaper changes. However I doubt it would have led to circ in other countries

[thixle]

Originally Posted by s_kristina

.Then again my dad was just circ'd not that long ago mainly due to bad information from a doctor that I wouldn't trust to tell me if I was running a fever. From what I found out after the fact my dad did have a problem and it probably started back as a baby in 1950 being retracted at diaper changes. However I doubt it would have led to circ in other countries

Not to be too nosey, but do you know any more about why your dad was circ'ed and how he feels about it?

[s_kristina]

Originally Posted by thixle

Not to be too nosey, but do you know any more about why your dad was circ'ed and how he feels about it?

From what little he told me it sounds like he had a bad case of phimosis. Most likely from repeated yeast infections that he refused to get treated for. He said it was so tight he was having trouble getting urine out. I have not talked to him about how he feels about it since. Knowing that there are likely other things that could have been done makes me very leery of bringing up the subject, but I also want my brothers to know that even if something like that happens to them when they are older it won't mean they have to get circ'd.

[New_Natural_Mom]

Originally Posted by Frankly Speaking

, until just recently, smegma was said to be a carcinogen. (cancer causing agent)

Seriously??!!! These kinds of stories along with the CDC make me want to chuck it all and go live in a commune.

[Frankly Speaking]

Originally Posted by New_Natural_Mom

Seriously??!!! These kinds of stories along with the CDC make me want to chuck it all and go live in a commune.

Yeah, it was an idea someone came up with in 1920 or there abouts. There was no research or study and no evidence but it was the prevailing wisdom in the medical profession into the 1990's when someone finally figured out the cause was the HPV virus. The information has not gotten out to all yet and some still believe smegma is a carcinogen. Makes me very fearful of the medical profession and the chance that I will one day have to depend on them for my very life.



Frank