crunchy moms and Mainstream dads finding a balance???

[everettdaddy]

My DP and I are constantly arguing over this. It is rather complicated. I came into the relationship with her, while she had 2 boys and 1 girl. Then we had another little one together. We have been together for 3 years now, and the children are 8, 6, 3, and 18 months.

We homeschool ,she is a SAHM, and I was a WAHD until my contract went up, and now I am trying to find some work, either out of the home, in the house.

I am rather disciplinarian, not to the point of military standards. But I feel that if I say something it needs to be done w/out the arguing. She says that I am ignoring their feeling when i have to talk over them. I feel as though they just need to calm down, and listen.

So we get into the same set of arguments every so often. She wants me to change all of my philosophies, and yet it is only "I" that have the problems.

I am just looking ofr advice, before she logs on to say the same thing from her perspective and have all of the moms chase after me with toddlers in arms. LOL

[MayBaby2007]

If I met/married a man other than my daughter's father and he argued with me about how I discipine/raise MY daughter or if he disciplined my daughter any way other than what I find acceptable, he'd be out of my house. Period. I don't know what your situation is/don't know what kind of relationship you have with your partner--but if it were me, you would have been out a long time ago. As for the child you have WITH her, that's got to be compromised/agreed on. But for the 3 kids that are HERS--you have no right arguing with her, IMO.

That's just a personal opinion, of course. My eye just caught this post and couldn't refrain from responding. I don't know too many mothers (or fathers for that matter) who would allow a new partner to take over the discipline/raising of their kids. That's just one of those "don't go there" things. That's just not cool. I'd rebel like crazy if, when I was younger, my mom married some guy and he decided he was my new disciplinarian. That's just wrong. The 3 older kids should be completely up to HER. The ONE child you have together is different and you have to come to an agreement. Hope you come to an agreement soon.

[Greg B]

COMMUNICATE MORE.

There really is no way to evaluate or give you advice based upon what you have told us, IMHO. There are several issues to consider in this and they all are driven by context. Just as an example:

"I feel that if I say something it needs to be done w/out the arguing" sounds like you have a problem with feeling like you are always right, and not taking other feelings, opinions, and the full set of issues important to others into consideration. But, depedning on the context, it could well be the opposite and you are completely justified in the situations that you are refering to.

I am married to my opposite, in terms of Myers-Briggs personality inventory. I am married to someone who is so opposite of my style of dealing with the world I frequently am absolutely stunned that she would even consider the situation in that way. So I can understand a bit of what you may be feeling.

And I can tell you that communicating, discussion, taking the time to understand her perspective helps a great deal....in fact I would say is the only effective way to deal with it that I have found. And it helps in many ways, and things do get better the more you communicate. Seek to understand first, then ponder for a while. Sleep on it. Then discuss some more. Take the time to do it well.

As always, YMMV.

Regards

[everettdaddy]

Originally Posted by Greg B

COMMUNICATE MORE.

And I can tell you that communicating, discussion, taking the time to understand her perspective helps a great deal....in fact I would say is the only effective way to deal with it that I have found. And it helps in many ways, and things do get better the more you communicate. Seek to understand first, then ponder for a while. Sleep on it. Then discuss some more. Take the time to do it well.

As always, YMMV.

Regards

Thank you for your advice. It is appreciated. BTW, what does YMMV mean? I am still trying to figure out what all of these Acronyms mean.

[Greg B]

YMMV = your mileage may vary

smile

glad you are making progress. Working as a team is quite difficult compared to working as an individual, in my experience.

Regards

[everettdaddy]

Especially when we both are sagitarius's that think we are right.. LOL

[basilisa76]

I have some similar issues with my husband, however, we are exploring an idea that is working for us.

We sit down and talk about what kind of family we want to have, what kind of kids we want to raise, what values we want to give them and what experiences we want them to learn and remember.

Based on that, we decide, OK, we want a family that laughts often, shares activities, values honesty and sees learning opportunities in all things and people. We want them to remember fun times together, that some sacrificies go a long way and how important is nature.

Spanking.... Doesn't go with the picture, right? But maybe having them do some chores does because it shows them that they are part of a family and that we all have to contribute to make our home a clean and safe one, etc.

Gigi

[Septagram]

Greg_B is right. Communication is important. Education is too. Basilisa76 is on to something there too.. You need to think about what you want your kids to be like as *adults* and think about what kind of parenting will get you those results. Do you want them to be independent, free thinking people who know how to express themselves?

I also think that you should do some reading on the long term effects of punitive discipline and come to the table with information to share. Really have a full understanding of the choice that you're making. I find that the more you learn about child psychology and how their brains are wired, the more you want to work with them (i.e. understanding and compassion) instead of against them (i.e. discipline and power struggles). I mean, you wouldn't work on your car or computer without finding out what will fix it and what will break it, right?

As the daughter of an ex-drill Sargent and prison guard, I know a thing or two about disciplinarian fathers. I learned less from being punished and reprimanded and just got very very angry and resentful. When he stopped expecting me to follow orders and started talking to me like a human being and asking for my opinions and feelings he got a heck of a lot further.

Didn't mean to go off on that tangent.. Just felt like you should hear that from the child of an authoritarian father who ended up pushing his kids away because he always had to be right.

Also, a big reason that I'm not into the whole "Do what I say when I say and how I say" method is because I don't want my kids to listen to anyone who happens to be an adult. I was sexually abused for years because I wa told to listen to what other adults said. My trust of adults was taken advantage of. I don't want my kids to endure that, ever.

[superlori]

I don't have any advice, but I can say I know where you are coming from. My husband and I are very much like what you are talking about. I don't believe in blanketly saying one of us is right and one of us is wrong though - that is just arrogance. I, of course, believe what I believe because I THINK it is right, just like he does. But as people we are constantly evolving in our thoughts and beliefs and feelings, and part of being mature adults is being able to see the other person's side without becoming defensive, even if we totally disagree.

I understand my husband's feelings behind 'do what I say when I do it'. We want children who respect others, are well-behaved, and (because we're Christians) follow the Bible's directive to honour their father and mother. He feels the way to teach them this is to see that they obey him when he says something. I take a different approach as I think sometimes they (the kids) have valid arguments and I will listen to them. In the end, I may still insist on them obeying me, but I think listening to their feelings and arguments (at times) is very important to their well-being and growth into independent young adults. Does that make sense? Sometimes, there is no argument. I see nothing wrong with being strict in those cases. In fact, I think parents should be strict in some cases. So I understand my hubby's feelings.

I suppose I'm just saying there is nothing wrong with disagreeing, but trying to come to some solution is of utmost importance. Listening to each other and respecting each other is not only vital to a good marriage, but to all relationships in life!

[laohaire]

Maybe I can't really talk, since my DH is pretty laid-back and we don't clash much on discipline (though I am still the one who is coming from a crunchy point of view, when he's more mainstream).

But we allow each other to relate to our child the way each of us wants to. The child is forming relationships with two different parents, and I don't see any inherent issues in the child learning that dad expects kids to listen to him and mom expects a dialogue.

Obviously there absolutely are things where I would draw the line... abuse, etc... but otherwise, even if it takes effort on my part to just shut up, I will be trying my best to allow DH to discipline how he wishes. That's not to say that I might not later talk to him about it and offer my point of view. I would hope he would do the same for me, since neither of us are disciplining entirely consciously - a lot of it is just reactive, and based on our own experiences as children. And I'd want to improve that if possible. But still allow each of us to act according to our values.

[happyhippiemama]

Originally Posted by MayBaby2007

If I met/married a man other than my daughter's father and he argued with me about how I discipine/raise MY daughter or if he disciplined my daughter any way other than what I find acceptable, he'd be out of my house. Period. I don't know what your situation is/don't know what kind of relationship you have with your partner--but if it were me, you would have been out a long time ago. As for the child you have WITH her, that's got to be compromised/agreed on. But for the 3 kids that are HERS--you have no right arguing with her, IMO.

I totally disagree with this. Not that this isn't accurate some of the time, but I don't think it's wise to jump to this conclusion as the first response.

My DP isn't DD's biological father. But he IS daddy, and the only one that she knows. We are pregnant together for the first time now, and there is no way in hell I would insist that he discipline "MY" child differently than "OUR" child. We are a FAMILY, first and foremost.

When we were first dating, I was still a single mom, so of course I was the end-all when it came to making decisions about DD. Then our relationship became more serious, and I kinda considered myself a partnered single mom. We've been together for 3 years now (since DD was 1.5-2yo), and I'm no longer a single mom.

If we let DD feel like DP is "less of a parent" to her than I am, how is that a positive thing AT ALL?

The only time I can imagine the above sentiment being a positive, or even possibly necessary one, is when the kids are older and having a "new parent" come onto the scene too quickly and without transistion could be traumatic, or if they already have a bio-parent that they are involved with and the new parent could be seen or felt as a replacement.

That might be the case in the OP's scenario, but we don't know that. His DP's oldest was 5 when he became involved with the family. If there's no bio-father involved, then it's very possible that the OP IS daddy to all of the kiddos, his three "step-kids" AND the upcoming lil one.

I would throw my DP out on his ear if he claimed that DD WASN'T his daughter, unless in a technically-speaking kind of a conversation.

I have no advice for the OP's question, actually, the first response just got me going on a tangent. Sorry.

Oh, actually, I do have a bit of input. My DP is much more mainstream than I am. And like I said, when I was still a single ma and then a partnered single ma, I did make it pretty clear that he needed to parent in ways that I found appropriate, and that was that. But once we settled into our family, and committed to remaining there together, that all had to change.

I realized that I was being very disrespectful to DP. He is just as valid of a parent as I am, just not by genetics (until this pg, anyway). I am the one who wanted him here in this situation, it isn't fair at all to say "accept us all, but you can't actually become PART of the family", yk?

We found that the only way to deal with our parenting differences was to ignore the fact that he's not a bio completely. For example, OP, you could easily post this same scenario in PaP or Parenting Issues to get some great advice about how to meet in the middle on some specific between you and your DP. To avoid people telling you that it's not your right or your place, however, if you don't feel like that's truly the issue, then I would suggest not mentioning that you're not the bio-dad of the three olders.

Are you Daddy? If so, then welcome to the fricking family, already. Your thoughts on parenting are just as valid as your DPs.

Although as a sidenote, when you said

I am rather disciplinarian, not to the point of military standards. But I feel that if I say something it needs to be done w/out the arguing. She says that I am ignoring their feeling when i have to talk over them. I feel as though they just need to calm down, and listen.

, I knew exactly what you're talking about. That's my DP's stance, too.

My only thing for you to think about in regards to that, is "why?" Why do you need them to not argue? Why do you feel that you "have to talk over them?" Maybe they have something valid to say. Or maybe it isn't valid from your perspective, but it is really important from theirs.

Do you want to teach your children to argue well and speak up for themselves, or just to kow-tow to authority because the authority says "listen to me?"

Good luck!

[nichole]

Would you and your partner be willing to read some parenting books together and discuss them?

[faerierose]

I am the OP's other half He said I could come over here and clarify a bit. I think this post might be better suited for the Parents as Partners forum.
To explain the family situation a little better my dp is the only dad my kids have. We haven't had any contact with my ex husband since the day he left. This is best for everyone (it's a long story). DS1 took this very very badly. DD handled it differently, she was younger and I don't think she actually remembers him now. Ds2 was less then a year old when me and dp started dating. Ds3 is 18 months old now.
I appreciate all the differing opinions, it has given me some perspective. When I read the first response I agreed but I think that is really a reaction I feel when it concerns ds1. He's 8 years old now and he has been through so much the last 3+ years. One day his dad is just gone, then he started school and had a horrible year (we homeschool now) ds2 is sn and ds1 seems to feel really rejected (language delays so little bro doesn't really talk to him or play with him) then we moved halfway across the country. DS1 is angry/resentful, him and dp clash big time.
As for the discipline issue, it's not so much the expectations that are a problem between us, it's the basic lack of respectful behavior all around. I feel that the best way to show the kids how to treat people is to model it. I do NOT want the kids to act in any way simply because they are afraid not to! I do not want to parent by intimidation and I do not want them blindly trusting any adult.:
I do not want dp excluded from the family either, we need to work through this and I really think we need some outside help. I'm really glad he posted here
I know communication is the key here, things get really emotional sometimes
I have no problem with most of his expectations, it is simply the way those expectations are communicated to the children. Also the "arguing" thing because it seems to me that any response the kids give is an "argument". If it's time to get ready for bed for instance I could say to ds1 "it's time to get changed for bed in 5 minutes" he will say something like "I'm finishing my picture" then me "OK finish it up so you can change" and thats the end of it. If it were dp "I'm finishing my picture" would have been perceived as arguing.
I don't think it's to much to ask that he communicate with them in a kind/respectful/non shaming way.
I have read and offered books, articles, websites...we talk and seem to agree but then the whole cycle starts all over again. Help

[faerierose]

I wanted to add that I know there are things I over react about, blending a family is so complicated. There are many things that are simply reactions from our own childhoods. My dad had a head injury before I was born that affected how well he could control his anger/impulses so he was not involved in any sort of discipline and tended to avoid me and my sisters until we were older. My mom was always on the defensive, waiting to intervene if my dad was getting to upset.
Dp's family was very strict, dp hated his childhood so much that he has practically blocked it from memory We both want to work together, we both want better for our family.

[utopia760]

My husband and i figuht about this daily - its hard to explain it (what goes on) but i struggle with being like your wife. The problem is i am too laidback and honestly my husband is right many times NOT ALL we have decided it is best to sit donw and talk about what we need to do when a or b happens what the dicipline will be so we are working as a team and not watching what achother is doing

[Breeder]

Originally Posted by faerierose

.
Dp's family was very strict, dp hated his childhood so much that he has practically blocked it from memory We both want to work together, we both want better for our family.

I think the key is right there.

It's easy as a new parent (and unlike Faerierose who is an experienced mama, having had prior children, everettdaddy didn't have children till they were married), it's easy to just fall into repeating the actions of your parents.

This can happen even if you HATED the way your parents disciplined you.

The key is to step back, exam that childhood that is practically blocked from memory and CONFRONT those feelings.

You can still have well behaved children who understand boundaries and respect their parents without "talking over them" or expecting them to say "how high?" when you say "Jump." My DS has never dealt with that kind of discipline and still is able to do as I say without arguing (unless he has a good reason to do so).

Good luck, btw I love that you are both on this site trying to work through this together. It shows just how committed you guys are to making it work and working together.

[anitaj71]

This isn't just about crunchy moms and mainstream dads . . . the blended family dynamics have to be 'dealt' with. Expecially with your older one. I would suggest looking into some blended family books. Check out the blended family forum too there's some really great step parents there that can offer advice.
Step parents do tend to be harder/have less patience with their step children. We have to be really careful how we treat our dsk(s). ( dear step kids) On one hand we may have all the resposibility of the parent however the actual 'parenting' part is left up to bio parent. It's so frustrating. I know the bio dad is not in the picture however you really have to be patient to allow your relationship with those children to evolve. Especially with the older one.
Btw, I know as moms we can be huge softies and way too mushy . . which is why dads are so great they bring balance to our mushiness. Hey, if it was up to me I would do my best to protect my babies from everything until they're 30. ( slight exaggeration, I know, just go with me here ) My dh is harder on the kids. He's a man it's his job to kick them in the butt and send them out into the world. ( then they come home and I kiss the owies ) I know that is over simplifying but just to bring on the other side a bit. Mamas, sometimes we have to allow dads to do their job . . .

[anitaj71]

double post

[woobysma]

Originally Posted by happyhippiemama

<snip>

I realized that I was being very disrespectful to DP. He is just as valid of a parent as I am, just not by genetics (until this pg, anyway). I am the one who wanted him here in this situation, it isn't fair at all to say "accept us all, but you can't actually become PART of the family", yk?

We found that the only way to deal with our parenting differences was to ignore the fact that he's not a bio completely. For example, OP, you could easily post this same scenario in PaP or Parenting Issues to get some great advice about how to meet in the middle on some specific between you and your DP. To avoid people telling you that it's not your right or your place, however, if you don't feel like that's truly the issue, then I would suggest not mentioning that you're not the bio-dad of the three olders.

Are you Daddy? If so, then welcome to the fricking family, already. Your thoughts on parenting are just as valid as your DPs.

<snip>

Do you want to teach your children to argue well and speak up for themselves, or just to kow-tow to authority because the authority says "listen to me?"

I totally agree with all of this post, but I snipped out the best parts, for me, especially the bolded part.
DP and I have had our struggles in this department, but no more than any two parents who have slightly differing attitudes towards parenting. When we met, we both had kids and a lot of our philosophy gelled (otherwise I would have been GONE)..... but there was some fine tuning that had to be done and we talked and talked and still talk about it. It's a work in progress, like most parenting with a partner.

But, happyhippiemama's right, IMO. For us to get past the issues, we had to agree that this was not a "blended family", but just a "family". We have ups and downs, but I don't see DP as less than a full-on DADDY. He's my partner and sometimes he's right and sometimes I'm right and sometimes we both have to compromise and meet in the middle, just like everybody else. In our case, this fit because DP was the only father figure in the picture, so it really was just about us and the kids.
I hardly ever mention that DP is not my kids' bio-dad (unless it's pertinent to the topic), because for us and the boys, it really doesn't matter.

As for the parenting styles.... the bolded part comes into play a lot, for me and DP. I've said exactly that same thing a LOT. I value free-thinking and I hold that as one of my highest goals for the boys, because I think it's an important attribute of character. Does it make parenting harder sometimes? Heck yeah... because I actually have to think about WHY I'm asking a certain thing of the kids. And my kids can form a cogent argument like nobody's business Sometimes it drives me nuts, but that's the type of people I want to be raising, in the end. I want them to challenge ideas and question things, but do it intelligently and respectfully.

Sometimes, DP just wants quiet, though, and he deserves to have his viewpoint heard, too. We try to strike a balance. It's all about keeping the communication open and flowing and making sure everyone has their needs met as much as possible, kids and parents included.

[boredgamer31]

Hi all I am new here and this is my first post. My wife has turned me onto this site as she is most definetely a crunchy mom, while I looked at myself as a mainstream dad.
Everettdaddy I am with you on this, well I was. As a dad I want my children to listen to me when I tell them to do something. I find it to be very frustrating when I tell my 4 year old to do something and suddenly I am in the midst of hostile negotiations. There is screaming and crying and temper tantrums gallore, ususally from me, becasue I am not being listened to.
Seriously though I came from a family where the children listened to the parents, especially as little ones and there would be spankings or serious alone time in a bedrooms if our "acts" were not gotten together.
I grew up that way and it worked for my folks. So as a parent I simply wanted to do what I knew had worked on me as a kid and this is where a lot of our problems started to occur. My son is not me, he is his own individual and the punishments that worked on me seemed to only esculate the issues with him. My wife and I tried everything with some things working some of the time and others not working at all.
Ultimately it was my wife who uncovered the gentle discipline techniques that we use now. I have to say what a difference it makes. You see there is a parental perception on how things should go and then there is reality. My perception was, I am the father and I should be listened to and I became all the more upset when my son would not do as I "perceived" he should do. The reality is he is four years old. He knows what he wants and as his parents we have spent his entire life giving him what he wants and needs. Now he is at an age where we say no to him for any number of reasons and it goes against what he has learned through repetitious behavior. He has no emotional capability of calmly explaining to me that my saying no to him goes against years of catering to his needs. He simply thinks I am being mean and gets frustrated and upset by it.
The reality is I have given up on the "father knows best" line of thinking. I don't. Instead I work very hard at staying calm and making sure that he can feel like an individual and a critical member within our house. I give him the chance to argue his case, I listen to what he says and I stand by my decisions, but I no longer do it as a hard case. Instead I steer him into understanding why I have said no to something.
Needless to say, respecting my son as a person and fellow human being has in turn allowed my son to give me the respect I feel that I should get from him. Again I am not a push over to his will. If there is a bed time rule, or dinner rule or a sharing rule then I will enforce the rule but instead of the, "do it because I said so" routine I now will say this what we are doing, here are some options, tell me what you think.
I also no longer just anounce at any old time when my son has to do something. I now give him some warning so he isn't taken by surprise. The idea is to let him know when something is going to happen as it will lessen the emotional out bursts.
I don't know if this post will give you any insight as to what you should or should not do when dealing with your children. You are put in an even harder situation as several of those children came from another father. You now have to deal with the "you're not my daddy" line of thinking as well. Just remember that they are children. They do not come pre loaded with the ability to rationalize and think they way we do as adults. Their brains are still developing and changing. Their neurons are still creating electrical pathways for their emotional, creative and even logical learnings. You won't be able to see eye to eye with them unless you get to their level of thought. Show them respect, treat them like human beings and not as people that have to listen to you because you are the man. It will take more than love for them and their mother to get you all through this and I wish you the best of luck.