I have a feeling it's all going to amount to nothing...

[liliesandliars]

It's been a long time since I've posted here. My son was born two and a half years ago and ever since then I've had to deal with periodic opposition for my decision to leave him intact. Family, friends, etc. have all taken it upon themselves to give me their opinions on the health risks I'm imposing on Imriel, and not-so-rarely they will simply tell me how gross they think uncircumcised penises are.

I'm not an intactivist... if people want to mutilate their children's genitals, they are going to do so regardless of the multitude of reasons I can give them not to. I probably don't seem like a convincing source, I'm a 22 year old single mom. So, in short, I don't really try to convince them of anything, all I ask is that they leave me alone with my decision NOT to chop the tip of my child's penis off, TYVM. Despite that, I consider myself well informed about the complications, health risks, and losses that are suffered via circumcision. I also consider myself well informed on the benefits of leaving a boy intact. So really, I need no convincing on any of those aspects.

My issue here is, quite purely, the social aspect. I live in Houston, Texas, and around here I think the circumcision rate is still around 70%. Let me give you some examples of the brilliant little gems of information that my family/friends have volunteered in regards to this subject...

"I went with an uncircumcised man for awhile. He was German. I eventually broke up with him because of his penis. At least you'll never have to worry about your son getting a girl pregnant, he's never going to get laid." - Laurie Anne, coworker

"Lee and I broke up. The sex was so bad. He was (whispers) uncircumcised!" - Lauren, coworker

"You might make a stud into a dud." - Doug, a friend (genius, huh)

"He'll be a one-minute man." - Mhiko, my brother

"He's got a higher chance of getting AIDS and UTI's." - my mother, probably quoting her decades-old nursing textbooks

"A guy I know just got circumcised. He said it was the best thing he ever did. He's really mad that his parents didn't do it when he was a baby. If my son comes home crying because kids are making fun of his penis, I'm blaming you." - Stuart, Imriel's father

So, I've faced all of this, and I haven't wavered. In the end, Imriel is still going to keep his foreskin until he's old enough to choose for himself. My frustration is in knowing that ALL this antagonism I'm facing now on his account will be transferred to HIM as he grows up. I'm afraid that my son will be so tired of hearing that his penis is gross and weird, or that he will be so afraid that girls will reject him because of his foreskin, that he'll go and chop it off ANYWAY as soon as he can (but before he can reap the real benefits of it) just to relieve the social burden. All my effort gone to waste. Maybe it's just me being selfish? Maybe I just don't want to be proven wrong. There's some part of me that thinks, here I am proclaiming that parents don't have the right to choose whether or not a boy gets to keep his foreskin, but in reality, I'm choosing something for Imriel, too... I'm choosing to have him subjected to possible ridicule and embarrassment, a hundred times worse than what I have faced on his behalf, because it's HIS penis. There's a part of me that wonders if I really did him any favors. At the risk of sounding extremely childish... IT ISN'T FAIR.

Thanks for sitting through my rant.

[Benji'sMom]

Wow I haven't experienced any comments like that, people never bring it up to me especially if I'm not being an intactavist. If I don't bring it up first it never comes up. I'm so sorry you're going through this.

But you know, I have an online friend who lives in Houston TX and her first son was circumcised and don't you know, last year he was the only circumcised boy in his class (he discovered this because I think it was their first year changing for PE or something, or their first year showering after gym class, something like that). The mom sure wasn't expecting that! Point is, you never know. All these people you're talking to are your age, or older, you never know what will happen when your son goes to school and deals with people actually his age.

[SleeplessMommy]

Right now 55% of boys in the USA are circumcised ... and the number is dropping every year. When your son grows up, he will be around women who have had every chance to "comparison shop." [unlike today's adults, especially many older women who have only seen modified penises. Even their own sons were circed before they got a chance to see them] I have confidence in the "dating" success of any intact male, even in the circ-happy USA.

Have you seen the Fine-touch pressure threshold study?

http://www.cirp.org/library/anatomy/sorrells_2007/

The glans in the circumcised male is less sensitive to fine-touch pressure than the glans of the uncircumcised male. The most sensitive location on the circumcised penis is the circumcision scar on the ventral surface. Five locations on the uncircumcised penis that are routinely removed at circumcision were more sensitive than the most sensitive location on the circumcised penis.

Some people who have never seen any intact penis have suggested that the more sensitive intact penis results in shorter duration of sex. This is not true!

Stick to your guns on this one, you have made the right choice to protect your son, and others have no right to judge you for it.

[Ann-Marita]

Next time some person makes a rude comment, say something like:

"Why are you so interested in my son's penis? Are you planning on having sex with him? If not, it's none of your business."

[glongley]

Wow, what a lot of rude and unsupportive comments! You are absolutely right on in leaving your son intact, and don't let anyone make you second guess that. But I think you have to draw a VERY firm line on any of these so-called friends laying their CR@P on your son. Tell them to grow up, and that you will not tolerate any more of these kinds of comments, and if they so much as hint at any kind of negativity about their son's penis in his presence, that is the last you will have anything to do with them.

I know that is actually kind of an extreme response to what you described and probably not doable in real life, but good grief, these people are just so unsupportive and negative. It's time you pull the plug on it for your son's sake.

Also you are going to need to raise your son to appreciate and be knowledgeable about his marvelous body, so as to make him resistant to idiotic adults such as these. Sorry, don't mean to diss these people as some of them are important relationships in your life. But this really ticked me off. They are adults! And they need to start acting like it in regard to being appropriately supportive and protective of children.

If your son has problems with his feelings about his penis, it won't be because you let him grow up with his whole body, it'll be because this kind of immature attitude and comments on the part of the adults around him.

Gillian

[~Megan~]

I'd be inclined to tell people something like, "Stop talking about my child's genitals! That is unless you want to whip it out and have a conversation about yours."

[bluetoes]

Just so you know, you're not alone. I live in Houston, well in the burbs, and my son is intact. My husband is as well and there is nothing gross about it. I just don't get that. Some people are such idiots. But I know how you feel. With the exception of my European friends I am feel pretty alone as well in my beliefs. People are so brainwashed by the culture they don't even realise it. It's as if I am asking them to put motor oil on their toast instead of butter when I tell them that circumcision is wrong. I am glad to have some European friends and a supportive mother. Hopefully you can also find some like minded people. I know it can be hard, believe me!

In the meantime, all you can do is try to educate them. I am shocked they bring it up so much.

[Fellow Traveler]

Originally Posted by liliesandliars

It's been a long time since I've posted here. My son was born two and a half years ago and ever since then I've had to deal with periodic opposition for my decision to leave him intact. Family, friends, etc. have all taken it upon themselves to give me their opinions on the health risks I'm imposing on Imriel, and not-so-rarely they will simply tell me how gross they think uncircumcised penises are.

I'm not an intactivist... if people want to mutilate their children's genitals, they are going to do so regardless of the multitude of reasons I can give them not to. I probably don't seem like a convincing source, I'm a 22 year old single mom. So, in short, I don't really try to convince them of anything, all I ask is that they leave me alone with my decision NOT to chop the tip of my child's penis off, TYVM. Despite that, I consider myself well informed about the complications, health risks, and losses that are suffered via circumcision. I also consider myself well informed on the benefits of leaving a boy intact. So really, I need no convincing on any of those aspects.

My issue here is, quite purely, the social aspect. I live in Houston, Texas, and around here I think the circumcision rate is still around 70%. Let me give you some examples of the brilliant little gems of information that my family/friends have volunteered in regards to this subject...


So, I've faced all of this, and I haven't wavered. In the end, Imriel is still going to keep his foreskin until he's old enough to choose for himself. My frustration is in knowing that ALL this antagonism I'm facing now on his account will be transferred to HIM as he grows up. I'm afraid that my son will be so tired of hearing that his penis is gross and weird, or that he will be so afraid that girls will reject him because of his foreskin, that he'll go and chop it off ANYWAY as soon as he can (but before he can reap the real benefits of it) just to relieve the social burden. All my effort gone to waste. Maybe it's just me being selfish? Maybe I just don't want to be proven wrong. There's some part of me that thinks, here I am proclaiming that parents don't have the right to choose whether or not a boy gets to keep his foreskin, but in reality, I'm choosing something for Imriel, too... I'm choosing to have him subjected to possible ridicule and embarrassment, a hundred times worse than what I have faced on his behalf, because it's HIS penis. There's a part of me that wonders if I really did him any favors. At the risk of sounding extremely childish... IT ISN'T FAIR.

Thanks for sitting through my rant.

Wow, I don't know what to add. I think Benji'sMom's story sums it up pretty well. You can just never be sure how theses things will shake out. There are a couple of things that you can count on with respect to what your son's experiance might be. The first is that the world he will grow up in will clearly be different from the one that you and I grew up in. That is to say that there will be clearly be other many more intact boys then there would have been even 10 years ago. So he won't be alone. Second, my personal observation has been that there has been a substantial (perhaps exponential) increase in the discourse surrounding this subject. It seems that blogs are popping up everyday and those chiming in to support are different from one to another. That tells me things are improving. Third, your son will have as much information as you do and get it pretty much in the same way. We have at least one new member here who posts on a teen board and he says that the conversation is mostly anticirc. Again a good sign that things are in fact changing. Finally, you of course did your son a great service and the right thing. Funny thing is that doing the right thing is often involves taking the hardest path. I think that as long as you are honest and open with your son, in an age appropriate manner, he will be prepared for whatever comes.

As for your friends, family, and co-workers. Its hard to know what to say or do; it is ultimately up to you and how much you really want to go to the mat so to speak. I think I would start with straighting out your mother and brother first, immediate family. Those are the ones who will have the most interaction with your son so it is important that they respect both you and him. As a nurse, I would suspect that your mother can be presented with the medical facts it might take time for her to unlearn the propaganda it would be an important step though, I would work on her and then perhaps your brother. Perhaps start with "If it is so necessary, why is the US the only industrialized country to practice non-religious circumcision?" See how she handles that. I suspect you've been down this road before so perhaps this is nothing new but I just thought I would mention it.

Originally Posted by Benji'sMom

Wow I haven't experienced any comments like that, people never bring it up to me especially if I'm not being an intactavist. If I don't bring it up first it never comes up. I'm so sorry you're going through this.

But you know, I have an online friend who lives in Houston TX and her first son was circumcised and don't you know, last year he was the only circumcised boy in his class (he discovered this because I think it was their first year changing for PE or something, or their first year showering after gym class, something like that). The mom sure wasn't expecting that! Point is, you never know. All these people you're talking to are your age, or older, you never know what will happen when your son goes to school and deals with people actually his age.

[A&A]

Just tell all of those people where to shove it.

[transylvania_mom]

I would probably prepare a very rude comeback next time someone is saying such a thing to you. They aren't worth your time. Be strong for your son and he'll learn that from you and will know how to protect himself from ignorant people.

[MCatLvrMom2A&X]

If anyone said anything to my ds about his penis in a negative sense be it close family or not that would be the last time they saw my ds : I would never tolerate that kind of talk and I am going to do everying in my power to tell him the facts and make him proud of the fact he has all his parts and to help him understand why some people might say something negative because they are just plain stupid or they just dont know what they are missing.

I am so sorry you have had to deal with that kind of crap. I like some of the responces to give to them that some pp's mentioned I would definatly use them.

[kldliam]

pcg100

"It has come to a sorry state, when our boys think that they are unusual, different and embarrassed due to the fact that their penises have not been mutilated at birth. What on earth are we doing to our children?"

[bugmenot]

From the first post:

"He'll be a one-minute man." - Mhiko, my brother"


Of course he'll be a one-minute man! No need for lube, and the foreskin DOES provide extra sensitivity, right?

One minute might be a good thing, if you look at it from a pro-intact point of view.

[copslass]

Talk about timing!

My older boys, now 22 and 18 were home for Easter today, with their longtime girlfriends, and I mentioned that when they were born and I didn't allow part of their penises to be cut off, much of the family (other side) warned me, along with other fears, that "they'd never have girlfriends!" (Circ rate STILL upper 90% here).

They laughed and talked bout how girls seem to prefer intact!

Hope this encourages you.

Just realized I need to update my siggy! LOL

[laoxinat]

Oh, mama! They suck. You don't. Your DS WILL thank you one day. Mine called me from planned parenthood where he and his GF were getting checked out . I told him, "Don't let anyone tell you you should get circumcised" I HEARD him smile. "Oh. Hell no..."

[Frankly Speaking]

Lillieandliars, sometimes perception just doesn't match reality. We tend to think of the current circumcision rate as the same as it was for our group of peers. That is certainly not the case.

The current circumcision rate in the southern region (including Texas) is the second lowest in the country only behind the west coast region but many southerners think the circumcision rate in the south is almost 100%. In the west coast, many think the current circumcision rate is near 100% but in reality, it is less than 30%. Many Californians think most California boys are circumcised but reality is only about 22% are circumcised. Many Canadians think most boys are circumcised but reality is that only about 6% are circumcised today. The same can be said about any region or state in the Union. The perception is much higher than the reality everywhere.

Your son will have no problems getting girlfriends. The circumcision issue is becoming common knowledge among teens. They are picking up the message probably much better than adults and they are believing the message. Women are actually seeking out intact men because they want to confirm for themselves that intact men provide a superior sexual experience. All this has come about in just the last 10 years. Imagine what it will be in another 15 to 20 years! Circumcised men could be at a distinct disadvantage in attracting and keeping lovers.



Frank

[mntnmom]

Well, if it makes you feel any better, my INTACT DH and I have 3 kids, 2 intact boys. He never had a girl say anything negative about his foreskin. These people in your life are just reacting out of their own ignorance and proconceived notions.
THREE CHEERS for you for standing up for your son's right to his OWN choice. He can get cut later, but he can never really replace his foreskin!!

[Papai]

I'd be inclined to respond quite rudely to people who made such comments. You're a better person than me.

[Claire and Boys]

Originally Posted by mntnmom

Well, if it makes you feel any better, my INTACT DH and I have 3 kids, 2 intact boys. He never had a girl say anything negative about his foreskin. These people in your life are just reacting out of their own ignorance and proconceived notions.

And also I think defensiveness, if they circed their own kids. They don't like to imagine that they did anything wrong and therefore they lash out at you and try to attack your decision. It's all insecurity.

And yes you did a great thing for your son

[KBecks]

Thankfully your co-workers shouldn't have access to your son.

Penises are private. It's socially really awkward to talk to a man about his penis, and I think most of these people who are so brazen with you (because it's easy to blame and criticize a mom) will be too scared and embarrassed to say jack to your son to his face.