Why is my very bright 5 yo DS testing so poorly?

[TripMom]

Exasperation I guess is why I am posting here. DH tells me to ignore these tests - they are not accurate and DS is only 5. DS teacher does not believe there is a problem and we have good conferences . . but . . . . .

You can see my posts in this forum on struggles with reading, Dibels testing, etc. Well . . since then I have started to explore private schools for DS. I wanted to see what goes on in those classrooms v. what DS is getting in public schools. Not sure how serious I am about moving him but want to have as much info as possible to be sure we are making right decision for DS. As part of that process, DS was given some assessment tests yesterday . . . . after which I was told he "drown in 1st grade" and "have I considered repeating K?" and his skill level is "fine for a child entering K" . . . . ????????

WHAT IS GOING ON???

I know every mother believes their child is bright - and I don't mean to sound trite - but he really truly is? Other people always remark on this? This is the child that just yesterday recreated Easter Island on the floor of his room in legos and begged me to make sure his younger sibs did not mess it up while he was at K?

Not sure what I want here? Maybe some BTDT? DH is so "don't worry about it - its crap" kind of attitude . . . but here I am with 2 different schools/testing telling me there is a problem . . . how can I ignore that??

[joensally]

I would recommend paying privately for psycho-ed testing with an experienced psychologist. They'll be able to suss out what's going on - he may be bright with some sort of LD or processing issue, or some other variable that the teachers aren't attuned to picking up on.

[mommy68]

There are many children who repeat kindergarten. My DD is in kindergarten now and has 4 kids in her class that had the same teacher last year. Some parents actually "chose" to keep their kids behind another year. It's more common than you think. In fact, a boy in her class just celebrated his 7th birthday this month!! I thought that was a bit old but he repeated kindergarten this year and last year was starting late to begin with. Some kisd jsut take longer. That does not mean something is wrong.

And I don't think anything is "wrong" with your child. All children learn different things at different times in life. A few months from now he may be exceling in areas that he is lacking in right now. That's how fast a young child can change. I think schools are wrong to test them at the young age of 5 anyway, but thats JMHO. I am more favorable towards homeschooling anyway and I know lots of homeschooled kids that didn't read until they were over 8 years old. The problem with ps is that all the kids have to be at the same level all the time. That's how children get looked over a lot of times and it's sad.

[LauraLoo]

It seems as if the teacher thinks that repeating kindergarten will help your child test better. Does she think it's simply a maturity issue?

Another reason that bright children don't test well is because of learning disabilities which lower their performance on testing. Repeating a grade doesn't help this.

I agree that outside testing may be a good route to take to determine what the issue is - if there is an issue. I can think of other possibilities that are only pure speculation.

[ChristaN]

When is his bd/is he young for grade? I think that LauraLoo's ? about whether the teacher thinks it is simply a maturity issue is important. If he just needs more time, doing another year of K may work well. If it is b/c he has a learning disability or simply learns/thinks differently, another year probably won't.

Most achievement tests are designed to assess convergent thinking -- there is one right answer. From your short description of your son (lego Easter Island), I wonder if he is simply a more divergent thinker -- seeing multiple creative possibilities. That will probably make fitting the mold of school harder for him, if so.

If you are truly concerned, I'd follow joensally's recommendation and have him privately assessed for intelligence, achievement, learning disabililties, etc. You don't have to share the results with the school if you don't like.

[beatrixmum]

When I worked in a kindergarten (Waldorf) and observed the 1st grade readiness testing and results, I was really blown away. There were very verbal, very smart kids who I assumed were shoe-ins for 1st grade. Not so!

As the author David Elkind (Preschoolers At Risk is great on this topic) stresses, just because children are very verbal we may assume they have reached the 'age of reason' that is normally a prerequisite for academic learning, i.e. 1st grade. This is really a fascinating phase of development with lots of quirky physical as well as intellectual signs. I've read that Children who are ready for 1st grade go up the stairs with one foot on each step, have begun losing their baby teeth, etc. The thinking is a certain level of maturity much be reached before children can easily make the leap to using symbols, before that they are really hands on in their learning. Your ds sounds wonderfully hands on. I have read so much about this and its really been stressed to me that academic learning before someone is ready has no benefit, but can cause many problems like frustration, burn out, etc. Good luck!

[TripMom]

Originally Posted by beatrixmum

When I worked in a kindergarten (Waldorf) and observed the 1st grade readiness testing and results, I was really blown away. There were very verbal, very smart kids who I assumed were shoe-ins for 1st grade. Not so!

As the author David Elkind (Preschoolers At Risk is great on this topic) stresses, just because children are very verbal we may assume they have reached the 'age of reason' that is normally a prerequisite for academic learning, i.e. 1st grade. This is really a fascinating phase of development with lots of quirky physical as well as intellectual signs. I've read that Children who are ready for 1st grade go up the stairs with one foot on each step, have begun losing their baby teeth, etc. The thinking is a certain level of maturity much be reached before children can easily make the leap to using symbols, before that they are really hands on in their learning. Your ds sounds wonderfully hands on. I have read so much about this and its really been stressed to me that academic learning before someone is ready has no benefit, but can cause many problems like frustration, burn out, etc. Good luck!

Thank you so much for your post - and everybody who responded, really. I get such thoughtful and insightful info on this sight always. Yes - he is wonderfully hand on and if any good is coming out of this it is sending me looking for info about DS and exploring all the different options and places that might be best for him . . . . thanks again for your post

[CarrieMF]

I disagree with the losing baby teeth as a sign they're ready for grade 1. 2 of my kids are in or have been in Grade 1. in their classes maybe 1/4 of the kids have lost a tooth prior to Grade 1. My eldest didn't lose one until she was in Grade 2, a week before she turned 7. She didn't get teeth until she was 19months either. My middle dd currently in Grade 1 didn't lose teeth until after she started Grade 1. She was emotionally & educationally ready for Grade 1 when she was 5, she should have been placed in K a year early. She passed K after 16 days. She is doing alot of Grade 2 work currently.

[TripMom]

Originally Posted by ChristaN

When is his bd/is he young for grade? I think that LauraLoo's ? about whether the teacher thinks it is simply a maturity issue is important. If he just needs more time, doing another year of K may work well. If it is b/c he has a learning disability or simply learns/thinks differently, another year probably won't.

Most achievement tests are designed to assess convergent thinking -- there is one right answer. From your short description of your son (lego Easter Island), I wonder if he is simply a more divergent thinker -- seeing multiple creative possibilities. That will probably make fitting the mold of school harder for him, if so.

If you are truly concerned, I'd follow joensally's recommendation and have him privately assessed for intelligence, achievement, learning disabililties, etc. You don't have to share the results with the school if you don't like.

He is a July bday - so young. But neither his teacher nor DH and I think that is a factor. In fact, we think a hold back would be socially hard on him - he is very social, makes friends easy, seeks the company of older children in fact, and on top of that is among the tallest in his class.

But what you say about "divergent" thinking is along the lines of my suspicions about DS. The more I think about my convo with the lady that tested him earlier this week . . . the more I suspect that she really wasn't able to run her standard tests on him very easily? Our discussion was not a mechanical walk thru step by step of what she did - it was very disjointed - sounding like she stopped and started, and tried different things. Reading between the lines now I think part of the problem was that he was hard for her to test.

As I continue on my very scientific "google" researching for info . . . I continue to wonder if visual/spatial learning is a factor with DS? His profile of being very spacey, distracted and imaginative falls in line. As does his affinity for things like maps and mapping out football plays, etc. I have read that these types of learners do not progress linearly, but rather progress in a flat line and then spike and master the skill all at once . . . also arguing against any kind of repeating of kinder . . .

Its kind of a mystery. I have signed him up for speech/language pathology assessment (did I mention in PP?) . . .so hoping to begin to unravel this mystery and help give my DS the best opportunities . . .

[beatrixmum]

Originally Posted by CarrieMF

I disagree with the losing baby teeth as a sign they're ready for grade 1. 2 of my kids are in or have been in Grade 1. in their classes maybe 1/4 of the kids have lost a tooth prior to Grade 1. My eldest didn't lose one until she was in Grade 2, a week before she turned 7. She didn't get teeth until she was 19months either. My middle dd currently in Grade 1 didn't lose teeth until after she started Grade 1. She was emotionally & educationally ready for Grade 1 when she was 5, she should have been placed in K a year early. She passed K after 16 days. She is doing alot of Grade 2 work currently.

Like I said, its a quirky 'sign', one of many. Here's an article online that address 1st grade readiness and some of the more physical & emotional signs of readiness although they don't specifically mention loss of baby teeth, I think.

[beatrixmum]

Originally Posted by TripMom

Thank you so much for your post - and everybody who responded, really. I get such thoughtful and insightful info on this sight always. Yes - he is wonderfully hand on and if any good is coming out of this it is sending me looking for info about DS and exploring all the different options and places that might be best for him . . . . thanks again for your post

You're so welcome! I'm usually a thread killer. Thank YOU!

[BCFD]

Have you considered a Montessori school where he would be able to work at his own pace with older and younger children? Come over to the Montessori board if you have any questions. There are some wonderful teachers there that will be able to give GREAT advice. I think your child would excel in that type of environment.

[Justmee]

I'm running out at the moment but I wanted to respond. As an adult with learning disabilites, and as a special ed. teacher I second (third) getting him tested by someone who knows what they are doing. It sounds to me like he might have some type of auditory processing thing going on. If I am remembering right, the last concern was phonemic awareness type stuff? I was very much like your ds from what you are describing (complex lego structures, etc, but very low in reading, can't spell, and still mix up P, B, and other simmilar sounds a lot, even when typing). If insurance won't cover it and you really can't afford it, try a local university. I was finally diagnosed in collage. The masters students did the testing, but they go over it with their professors. It is free or much cheaper or sliding scale. An SLP might be a good start, but I would really try to getr him a full eval (WISC, etc) to find out what is going on with his learning style.

[TripMom]

Originally Posted by RachelEve14

I'm running out at the moment but I wanted to respond. As an adult with learning disabilites, and as a special ed. teacher I second (third) getting him tested by someone who knows what they are doing. It sounds to me like he might have some type of auditory processing thing going on. If I am remembering right, the last concern was phonemic awareness type stuff? I was very much like your ds from what you are describing (complex lego structures, etc, but very low in reading, can't spell, and still mix up P, B, and other simmilar sounds a lot, even when typing). If insurance won't cover it and you really can't afford it, try a local university. I was finally diagnosed in collage. The masters students did the testing, but they go over it with their professors. It is free or much cheaper or sliding scale. An SLP might be a good start, but I would really try to getr him a full eval (WISC, etc) to find out what is going on with his learning style.

Thanks for the email. At the suggestion of the lady who tested him at this private school - she referred us to a speech and language pathologist. I have set up hist first 3 appointments for a full eval there.

What other tests would constitute a "full eval"?

[TripMom]

Originally Posted by BCFD

Have you considered a Montessori school where he would be able to work at his own pace with older and younger children? Come over to the Montessori board if you have any questions. There are some wonderful teachers there that will be able to give GREAT advice. I think your child would excel in that type of environment.

Yes - DS was in a very pure Montessori school for 2 years for preschool . . .and don't think I'm not kicking myself for pulling him out for K! I so wish I would have left him there for K before making any decisions on moving school. I am going back to tour the Junior 1 classrooms as part of my review of private schools right now - that very well may be the answer?

[ChristaN]

Originally Posted by TripMom

What other tests would constitute a "full eval"?

We had an evaluation of dd#1 done when she was 7. What constitutes a full evaluation probably depends on the concerns. For dd, we had an IQ test done (WISC-IV), achievement testing, self esteem inventory, and an introversion/extraversion scale -- this was with a psychologist. We then had an occupational therapist assess her for sensory integration issues and motor planning.

[oceanbaby]

I don't know if this is at all applicable, but when my dh and I were in college together, he would get a C on a test and I would get an A, even though he knew so much more than I did. The difference? He is dyslexic, and written tests are very difficult for him.

Also, my older son (who will be 7 soon) often says he doesn't know things that he really does. For instance, he knows how to read, but if asked to read something, he will say he doesn't know how. If you ask him what 5+3 is, half the time he will say he doesn't know, even though just five minutes before he was adding numbers up to 100.

[Flor]

Originally Posted by CarrieMF

I disagree with the losing baby teeth as a sign they're ready for grade 1. 2 of my kids are in or have been in Grade 1. in their classes maybe 1/4 of the kids have lost a tooth prior to Grade 1. My eldest didn't lose one until she was in Grade 2, a week before she turned 7. She didn't get teeth until she was 19months either. My middle dd currently in Grade 1 didn't lose teeth until after she started Grade 1. She was emotionally & educationally ready for Grade 1 when she was 5, she should have been placed in K a year early. She passed K after 16 days. She is doing alot of Grade 2 work currently.

Dss lost his first tooth when he was 8 in the 3rd grade.

But, back to the Op, I'm a public school teacher with a kid in private Montessori. I think public schools do a poor job with different types of learners. I think my (very bright, amazing) kiddo is one of those who would drown in a public school classroom.