Please weigh in with your opinion!

[Kidsndog]

Well, some serious decisions have to be made for my DH and I regarding to move or stay put. Currently, I stay at home with our four children (6, 4, 3, and 15 months). We live in a very nice home in a very nice neighbourhood of Toronto. The schools are good, the library is up the street, the community centre is around the corner and we are able to get by with one car because the subway is a walk away.

We just moved into this home last summer and spent quite a bit of money renovating our home. We were living in the suburbs in a nice home with a less than $75k mortgage, but made the decision to return to Toronto last spring since it was a better commute for DH who is now a 20 minute subway ride from work - much better than the two plus hours he spent in daily commute time for over three years.

Our mortgage is now $300k, but the rennos (more extensive than we had planed but the basement had to be waterproofed) extended our home equity line of credit to $75k. I work part-time which does help a bit, but when we sit down and try and figure out long term projections, things looks a bit grim.

I plan to enter full-time nursing school in Sept 2009 for two years. Since my oldest will be less than nine and my youngest less than five, we will have to get a full-time nanny. The cost of school and nanny will increase our debt by $63k approx, but as a nurse I will be able to work immediately.

The catch is that, in order to stay in our current home and neighbourhood, I will have to work full time for twenty years (I'll be 42 when I graduate from nursing). My four children will be relatively young (10 and under). Is it realistic to think I can work full time during their childhood, with no hiring of help for housekeeping, babysitting, etc? Or am I delerious? My husband's job keeps him working long hours at work or from home for good chunks of time, so he is not really able to do too much. I'm scared I will be taking on too much to juggle kids, cooking, laundry, errands, homework help, extracurricular activities AND a full-time job.

The option would be to sell our home now, while the market is still a seller's market and move to a suburb close to TOronto, like Mississauga. We could by a home that would cut our mortgage in 1/2 and allow for me to attend nursing school debt-free, but the downside would be DH would have to commute again, and we would lose our lovely neighbourhood. We would not move back to Toronto once we left because the goal would be to save for the kids' education and our retirement rather than take on a bigger mortgage in our 40's.

What would YOU do?

[xekomaya]

Is it possible for you to go to nursing school part time? Nights/weekends to avoid the cost of the nanny?

What makes up the 63k debt after nursing school? Is it the full cost of nanny+ school?

Do you have your heart set on being a nurse? Or are there any jobs you could take on that wouldn't cost so much?

You will probably need some kind of after school care for the kids depending on what shifts you'll be working and when your DH comes home from work.

It doesn't seem like the plan works too well as is. I'd be very hesitant to take on that much debt to change careers. Seems like it will take quite a few years just to make up the cost of going to school -- maybe 5 years? You have to look at your after tax pay minus the cost of full time work against the debt, vs your current part time pay for those years...

Since you just bought the house, and love the neighborhood, I might make keeping the house my priority over going to nursing school, but I'm not sure thats an option for you. If nursing school is a must, it may be time to look at selling the house....

[greeny]

I would move to the cheaper house with the much lower mortgage.

[Kidsndog]

Just to add a bit more info - nursing school is only available full-time, unfortunately. I do have my heart set on becomming a nurse. If I am going to be working for 25 years, I really want it to be in a career that I can feel passionate about and make a good salary. My end goal is to become a nurse practitioner, but one step at a time. If we stay where we are, I will have to work full-time for years to come and unless we came into some money, our home would probably not be paid off - we have four children to raise, put through post-secondary education as well as save for our own retirement. If we move, there would be more breathing room, I think I could work part-time while the kids were young, and we could save more. There would be money to give the kids music lessons, tutoring and braces if needed, etc, but we would not be living in Toronto, close to his family and the culture and activites that we really enjoy surrounding us. I can't project the future, but wonder what will make us more happy as a family in the long run?

[KBinSATX]

Wowser. Your debt would make me tremble! Maybe it's because we are older (36 and 41). I would probably get depressed knowing that I will be working full-time for 2 decades just to pay off the debt I accummulated so far!
We live in a neighborhood that has really appreciated. Our neighbors are selling their homes in the 300k range (we bought ours at 150k years ago) and we keep wondering who'd be able to afford that!
I think it's really tough to figure out how feasible this is to do without knowing how much money you have coming in.
It would be totally crazy for us. My husband's salary is *only* in the lower 100k range and I am a SAHM but if you guys make tons more then it might be smart to stay...?!

ETA: I was really happy with my career and am considering raising my kids my new career. I have a nice place but I'd rather live in a trailer in the sticks and be the one to raise my kids than be away from them and come home to a bigger house so our goals are also very different at this time.

[Ruthla]

It sounds like you can't afford to keep this house AND go back to school.

Is there anything available in the same general neighborhood that's smaller and less expensive?

I'd personally be hesitant to go to school with 4 little ones- what other job/career opportunities are available to you? Remember that you can always go back to school when the kids are bigger- it's not like going to school is a "now or never" kind of situation.

[Kidsndog]

Well, our income is about 100k. We have $300k equity built up in our home. If we sold, we could probably sell for 750 - 800k, and then buy out of the city for 450k, which would mean a $200 or 250k mortgage which will pay off the 75k on our home equity line of credit). DH makes good money and will continue to do so. Once I am nursing I will make between $26 - 28 an hour to start. When I do the distance program to be a nurse practitioner I will be making 85 - 95k full-time, or half that part-time. Hope this helps in getting some opinions!

[Blueena]

personally, I saw stay in your house and go to school. I am in school currently, its a great thing, I have a future career in mind and there is no shame in wanting that. But even full time, you are not in school 8 hours a day five days a week, usually its 3 mornings or afternoons or evenings. Full time in the US is 4 classes undergard, 3 grad school, so I think you would be able to work it with part time help if needed. How about finding a fellow student with children and doing a trade off? Does public school have after school care? I was an after school care kid and I had a great time.

Also, I think we have to lose our fear of being more in debt, I just increased my families debt by $30K in student loans over the last two years to go to school, we think its a "necessary" debt and once back in the work force, I can pay it off.

I wouldn't leave such a great neighborhood, your house is going to appreciate so much because of it, it will be easier to sell your house in the future and you obviously enjoy it.

Good luck in your decision making, but don't feel guilty for wanting to change your life a bit :-)

[KBinSATX]

Sorry. I am obviously not good with numbers so I won't be any help on this at all! The thought of buying a 450k house on an income similar to ours made me giggle.
I better not show DH this thread! He will probably blame our modest housing on me having to have horses...
Basically my advice would be: What would you feel comfortable with if your Plan A doesn't work out. Let's say you go to nursing school but hurt/damage your back and have to look for other employment (which might pay significantly less).
Stuff happens. I would feel pretty worried if everything would depend on everything working out just exactly as planned.
If nursing school was something I really wanted to do then I'd probably sell the house and get something smaller. I've really have come to appreciate living debt-free or debt reduced. Piling it on like that would really freak me out.
Plus look at the housing market here. If Canada encounters something similar you won't be able to count on all that equity.

[D_McG]

can you just downsize in your current neighborhood? How big is your house?

(that amount of money would buy a huge house where I live now.. but barely a 1br apartment in NYC where we moved from).

[D_McG]

Originally Posted by Kidsndog

Well, our income is about 100k. We have $300k equity built up in our home. If we sold, we could probably sell for 750 - 800k, and then buy out of the city for 450k, which would mean a $200 or 250k mortgage which will pay off the 75k on our home equity line of credit). DH makes good money and will continue to do so. Once I am nursing I will make between $26 - 28 an hour to start. When I do the distance program to be a nurse practitioner I will be making 85 - 95k full-time, or half that part-time. Hope this helps in getting some opinions!

A 300k mortgage on 100k income sounds very tight to me. Just comparing to my family income/mortgage.

[Kidsndog]

Yes, it is pretty tight right now, especially with two more to go through pre-school and diapers, etc. We're lucky that DH has the car and gas paid through work, but we have zero money allocated for entertainment, vacations, educational savings and retirement. We knew it was going to be tight moving back to Toronto and increasing our mortgage, but we did not bank on 75K worth of rennos - after took possession of the house and cleaned out the basement we discovered it needed waterproofing, which involved digging out the outside,e tc - ugh!. I like the idea of staying in the same neighbourhood - the trouble with Toronto is that the bidding wars are INSANE. A semi-detached home up the street that needed work and has electric baseboard heating (no furnance), listed for $499 and sold for $571K due to the multiple offers. Not enough houses to go around makes for inflated offers.

[newcastlemama]

Originally Posted by KBinSATX

Let's say you go to nursing school but hurt/damage your back and have to look for other employment (which might pay significantly less).
Stuff happens. I would feel pretty worried if everything would depend on everything working out just exactly as planned.

Plus look at the housing market here. If Canada encounters something similar you won't be able to count on all that equity.

: I would personally hold off on the nursing school/career. Then you can have adequate time and money to commit to that when your children are older.

[Kidsndog]

Originally Posted by newcastlemama

: I would personally hold off on the nursing school/career. Then you can have adequate time and money to commit to that when your children are older.

Sigh, that's the downside of having children in your thirties. I'm 39 now and will be 42 when I obtain my nursing degree, 46 when I obtain my masters in primary care nursing. That only leaves 15 years to work and save for retirement, four kids's college funds, and pay the mortgage. The longer I hold off of school, the more prime years of my working diminish. If I was in my early 30's I'd have no problem waiting. But I do need to work to help make ends meet and the sooner I'm earning $26 an hour working part-time, instead of the $16 I make now, the better!

[annethcz]

I agree, I think I would hold off on going back to school if I were you. If you can make your current home situation work until your youngest child goes to school, I think that's a better solution.

From the sounds of it, we're in a similar situation. I have been thinking about going back to school for a nursing degree, like you it'd be a 2 year full-time program. But I'm not going to even consider it until my youngest child is school full time. It just doesn't make sense to borrow money to pay for full-time childcare when I could wait a couple of years and eliminate the childcare expense.

Are there other ways to cut back on expenses for the moment to make life more comfortable right now? For example, if you are home full time, is it necessary to pay for preschool for the little ones?

[Kidsndog]

Originally Posted by annethcz

I agree, I think I would hold off on going back to school if I were you. If you can make your current home situation work until your youngest child goes to school, I think that's a better solution.

From the sounds of it, we're in a similar situation. I have been thinking about going back to school for a nursing degree, like you it'd be a 2 year full-time program. But I'm not going to even consider it until my youngest child is school full time. It just doesn't make sense to borrow money to pay for full-time childcare when I could wait a couple of years and eliminate the childcare expense.

Are there other ways to cut back on expenses for the moment to make life more comfortable right now? For example, if you are home full time, is it necessary to pay for preschool for the little ones?

I really like preschool for two reasons - it gives me a bit of a break two afternoons a week to get some errands/chores done without dragging little ones with me, and it gives my preschoolers a chance to to have some stimulus and fun without older siblings overshadowing them. My three year old is very much in the shadow of his two older siblings, which is the nature of the beast when you have four children so close in age. If they were both in school full time then I would have more time to spend with him, but none are in school full time yet so it makes for a hectic, crazy busy household.

[mtm]

Can you get a much cheaper place in the burbs? We have friens=ds in georgetown and other burbs and the amount they spend on go or a second car is much higher than they expected as are property taxes. I'm biased though, I'd shrivel up in the burbs.

any chance there are grants for nursing school?

[mtm]

re preschool city of TO parks and rec has a decent and ridiculously cheap program called creative learning, my oldest did it before jk, my youngest will do it in the fall.

[Kidsndog]

Originally Posted by mtm

Can you get a much cheaper place in the burbs? We have friens=ds in georgetown and other burbs and the amount they spend on go or a second car is much higher than they expected as are property taxes. I'm biased though, I'd shrivel up in the burbs.

any chance there are grants for nursing school?

"So true about the prices in the suburbs! The catalyst for our move to Toronto was that we were going to replace our second car and realized that if we moved to the city and got down to one car, we could use the money we would have spent on car payments, towards a bigger mortgage. Regarding grants, the education part of school will come from borrowing from our RRSP for an educational take out, it's the child care that will cause the debt.

[polyhymnia]

if you will have some children in school part of the time and can work it out, have you thought about having an au pair versus a nanny? They are generally quite a bit less expensive but the quality of care can be just as good, and there are several good exchange programs in canada to allow au pairs from a variety of countries. www.greataupair.com is a good website to have a look to see what is available. You provide room/board and pay a small stipend for up to 40 hours of work.