Breech baby, help...

[Raven67]

I am getting a little freaked because my babe has been breech the last two midwife visits. I am now 30.5 weeks, first baby, very healthy pregnancy. At the 20 week u/s, and 25 week visit, she was vertex, so she must have flipped. If she is breech at 32 weeks, the midwife is recommending to start: homeopathic, then accupuncture, then chiropractic, and finally external version if all else fails. I am doing some pelvic tilts and visualization and swimming at this point. I am planning a homebirth, and can't do it (don't want to, and midwife will not) if she remains breech. I would attempt vaginal anyway in the hospital. I guess I am looking for some words of encouragement. Don't I still have a few weeks before I should start to worry about this??? Anyone have babies who turned after 30 weeks? The midwife keeps asking about any emotional reasons she may be remaining breech. I understand the point of this, but it feels a little like I am being blamed for her being breech, ykwim? As if I am not doing the right things, or don't have the right attitude. I am already feeling a little helpless.

[mamabutterfly]

Raven -

I've been wondering how you are doing b/c I remember your posts earlier in pregnancy & I'm also in Philly.

My dd was transverse until about that time, ended up vertex & birthed fine. In my birthing class, I remember 3 babies were breech, 2 flipped to head-down during the classes... which began at 32 weeks so they were all between 32-38 weeks then. That's totally unscientific & not actually helpful to you, lol, but I just wanted to offer some encouragement!!! She flipped in there, she can flip again!

I wondered from what you wrote whether you feel comfortable w/your midwife aside from the "emotional issues" comments? Maybe that is an interesting avenue to pursue, I don't know, but you should let her know how the questions make you feel. I think it would strike me the same way. Anyway, hopefully you like her approach in general?

BTW, what hospital would be the backup if it came to that?

I trust it will all work out! Hugs,

mamabutterfly

[Raven67]

Mamabutterfly.

thanks for the encouragement, that is what I am looking for, I am hoping lots of babies turn after 30 weeks. I really like the midwife, and actually think it is good that she is tuned in with psychological issues. But, in this particular instance, I just can't see how anything I am thinking/feeling is keeping her from turning. My birth partner has gotten on the bandwagon, too, and keeps asking me if I need to deal with some issue or something. So, I guess it is just annoying me, and need to tell them to knock it off. It kind of feels like it is up to her (the baby) to decide to turn, and all I can to is encourage it, I can't force it.

PS, I would go to Chestnut Hill Hospital

[pamamidwife]

So many babies are breech at 32 weeks! 34 weeks is when I start positioning, Pulsatilla, etc., to turn babies - but even then, only a rare few are still breech at term.

[Viola]

This might sound sad, but I can't figure out of my baby is breech or not. I've been worried about it since my daughter was breech somewhere around 34-36 weeks, but turned. At 35 weeks I asked two of my friends to feel my belly, and they said the head was up. When I got home and was leaning back against the couch, I definitely felt something round and grapefruit like right where they said the head was. When I went in for my 36 week appointment with my OB, I asked him to feel and tell me. He said it felt like the head was down and butt was up, but that could change. : Is that common at 36 weeks? For a baby to change from vertex to breech--it did happen to one of my friends He has not palpated me since, and only that one time at my request. I meant to ask him again at my 38 week appointment, but I forgot. Right now I don't feel like the baby is breech, but I just don't know.

In any event, I'm talking to a midwife about a homebirth and it is so late in the game, but I'm hoping it will work out. It just seems really odd that the doctor hasn't checked this at all, other than at my request. There are things I could do, ya know? My feeling is he will just say, "Oops, breech, c-section." This midwife does deliver breech births and did a footling breech of one of my friends, so I'm hoping it works out that if I am breech, I won't be at the hospital.

[pamamidwife]

Amy, I am so glad to hear that you are talking to a midwife! Perhaps she could feel your belly at some point. Some women notice a more "bruised rib" type feeling with a breech. When their babies get hiccups, the hiccups are noticed above the belly button, vs. down low with a head down baby. Lots of movement to the side - although a frank breech (butt firmly down in the pelvis, with feet up by baby's head) can feel like a head-down baby sometimes with the feet off to the side and up high.

Keep us posted - both of you!

[Viola]

I'm having a hard time figuring out what it is I'm feeling when I'm feeling it. I feel most of the movement above the belly button, but it feels like big movments. Apparently there are smaller movments low down, but I don't really feel them most of the time.

I don't have a bruised rib feeling, but I didn't with my first either. I never felt like the baby came anywhere near my ribs. I do feel the hiccups up top, however. Sometimes I feel them below and above simultaneously, but right now I am feeling hiccups at the top of my bulging tummy.

Last night I was feeling movement on the upper left hand side and the lower left and side at the same time.

[gardenmommy]

Just wanted to pop in and say that my dd was breech until 36 weeks. She finally turned head down one day while I was in the grocery store, of all places. The MW wasn't concerned; she has delivered many breech babies, but I was really glad when dd turned!

I did lots of hands and knees type of stuff, as I didn't want another posterior babe. I don't know if that made any difference in turning dd or not. It was not exactly comfortable when she did turn, I mean, there isn't a lot of room left for baby to move at 36 weeks, kwim?

Hang in there, hopefully your baby will turn!

[JesseMomme]

I guess my personal (rare) feeling is that if a baby is breech, there is a good reason for it, and if it will turn, then there was reason to. It's not because your thinking bad thoughts or had a fight with your SO or ate that bagel with too much cream cheese or didn't swim enough and not do enough headstands. I think breech is a variation of normal and baby should be left as such - and it's too bad your midwife is so skittish

As well, you are only 30 weeks, if baby is going to turn she has plenty of time. In the meantime, check out this website I just love about breech babies and births. It might ease up any fears you may have (that are needlessly being projected at you)

[Raven67]

ThankS! Jessemom,

I have been feeling that same thing. I kind of feel uncomfortable exhorting her to turn because, maybe she knows something I don't know? Maybe breech IS best for her. So, instead, I send messages saying, "assume the most favorable position for your birth, I trust you/us." BTW, she is still breech at 31 weeks. I agree, she will either turn or not turn. The issue is really that my midwife will not do a homebirth if she is breech. So, I would have to go to the hospital and deal with all that BS.

[JesseMomme]

ahh finally a chance to type with out nak'ing
You're welcome Raven - I just get to feeling so fustrated for women like yourself who find themselves between a rock and a hard place because of other's conceptions or misconceptions of what is risky or potentially dangerous. The irony I think being is that when something like, a breech, makes some attendants go all afluster in managing the birth that it actually causes the problems. I'm sure now is not the time you want to be dealing with this, you want to be reveling in the joy of being preg!

One reason I think is that if babies are breech for some reason or another (even if only for a while and they go head down at the end anyways) is that when they are manipulated to turn and it is successful the babies often wind up turning backside up! Hmmmm One lovely if less medically minded reason I once heard and it stuck wtih me is that baby can hear mommy's heartbeat better and it's reassuring

Maybe it's a dumb question, but if it is turn or nothing to your midwife, are there other, less medically minded midwives in your area? If you've already paid the first midwife in full, could you get some of your money back? I doubt you really want the hospital as another option, especially if you know they will be nothing but 'all that BS' you'll spend much of your labor argueing against c/s instead of laboring peacefully which would be silly at best, detrimental at worst, and none of it enjoyable. The hospital should only be an option in the instance of a true emergency (and even then one goes in hoping they dont' have to deal with BS), not an option because a midwife is bound to certain rules or else she lose her license. (if she is licensed that is) I think any lay midwife worth her salt would be comfortable with breech...

Best of wishes to you,

eta- I forgot to add I think your attitude is great trust in your baby and yourself is such an essiential thing.

[stafl]

Are you having lower back pain? I'd go the chiropractic route first, before trying anything else.
Do a search for Webster Technique. It works something like 80-90% of the time! Much better odds than most other options!
Worked for me... But I knew it would, as my first was always vertex, and I was seeing my chiropractor much more regularly that pregnancy than this one. So now I'm much more aggressive when it comes to getting an adjustment before the pain gets unbearable!

The general idea is that often it is a misalignment of the lowest vertebra (sacral joint, I think it is called) that causes a misalignment of the pelvis, which causes unnatural stress on the ligaments and muscles holding the uterus, which makes it harder for baby to assume vertex position.

[kaje62]

check out

www.spinningbabies.com

i had a breech and did not know until 39.3 weeks and we tried many things and ended with a c section

we tried for a vbac with number two but we were two weeks over due and was induced then and no avail so another c. turned out this little miss was sunnyside

i am happy but wish i would have had a vaginal birth with one

and bs to emotional reasons they are breech
that is such a bunch of crap!

people of all backgrounds and abuse histories and chemical use etc..have normal births. give it up

[kama'aina mama]

Jesse, you are right of course that some babes belong head up. I think 31 weeks is pretty early to say though. The problem, of course, is that fewer and fewer birth attendants of all kinds are able to handle a breech birth... hence the hand wringing. I had an exteral version.. because as intrusive as it was I felt it was better than a section, which I could find no way around if she stayed breech.

[JesseMomme]

External version Kama - Ouch! That or a c/s, what a wonderful position (no pun intended) to be put in. After all of that I'm glad it seemed she stayed head down for you.

Kaje62 ITA about the mommas who are chemically dependant, or physically and/or emotionally abused and wind up having completely ordinary births. Course, I'm sure those babies have a whole host of new problems awaiting them.

And this is why I would continue to UP/UC for any more babies I have, if I have anymore... Keep the EV's and extensive episiotomies and scalpels far away from me.

That reminds me, I was meandering about a uc list and someone there I've know for a few years now was talking about how she was talking to an old OB and she asked "how did you handle breech babies?" And, paraphrasing he pretty much says "I delivered them!". He went on to say he doesn't know why new Dr's aren't taught anything about breech and if he had to do a c/s for every breech baby he's attended he'd "never get out of the OR".

I also read the news yesturday of a momma who had UC twins, second one breech, absolutely no problems with anything. Then whaddya know her story is on the breech birth website I posted earlier. I need to get around more often LOL it was over a month ago. Ok it's actually a link outside of the breech website -http://pages.ivillage.com/birthteacher00/id25.html

[JesseMomme]

WAAYY T - kama'aina mama what does your name mean in Hawai'i? My kids have watched "Stitch: The Movie" a gazzillion times and in the beginning there's a sign that says "kama'aina luau" which always makes me think of kama at mdc I know what a luau is...so I was just curious - ok back to your regularly scheduled thread.

[kama'aina mama]

Ouch is right! Hurt WAY worse than childbirth. I was perfectly willing to go breech but couldn't find anyone who would catch her. On the subject of causes, I suspect that the long trip I took when I was about 7-7 1/2 months along had a lot to do with her not turning. Lots of flying, sleeping in a bunch of different beds... all kinds of changes. I think that was when she wanted to turn and then all the action distracted her.

kama'aina means local person, person of this land (aina = land) So it's a party for locals, not tourists.