Concerns about English at school

[reina28]

I didn't know how to word the title so it would capture what I am trying to say...I had kindergarten registration last night at my son's new school (public) and my son is one of three children in his new class whose primary language is English. Now I do believe that alot of the other students probably know some English but can someone just please thump me over the head if I am worrying too much?

Here are my concerns:
1) he will be ignored because the children that need to learn English will get more attention (he can also read pretty well too which makes me think this will be another thing against him)
2) he will be left out socially because the other children will speak in their native language during play? (is this even a valid concern?)

please, does anyone else have children that go to schools where most of the other kids do not speak the same language? was it hard for them or did they benefit from the cultural interaction? And I seriously hope I don't offend anyone, that is not my intention at all. TIA

[witchygrrl]

Originally Posted by reina28

I didn't know how to word the title so it would capture what I am trying to say...I had kindergarten registration last night at my son's new school (public) and my son is one of three children in his new class whose primary language is English. Now I do believe that alot of the other students probably know some English but can someone just please thump me over the head if I am worrying too much?

Here are my concerns:
1) he will be ignored because the children that need to learn English will get more attention (he can also read pretty well too which makes me think this will be another thing against him)
2) he will be left out socially because the other children will speak in their native language during play? (is this even a valid concern?)

please, does anyone else have children that go to schools where most of the other kids do not speak the same language? was it hard for them or did they benefit from the cultural interaction? And I seriously hope I don't offend anyone, that is not my intention at all. TIA

While not yet a mother of a child in school, I am a doctoral student in linguistics, and have some research-based knowledge of multi-lingual education. I also tutor college-level ESL (English as a second language) students. My husband is an art educator.

Anyway, in answer to your first question, I think it would depend on the skills of the teacher more than anything else. The best teachers should be able to work with children of all levels, whether those other children are ESL or special-needs. Perhaps you should see if you can sit in on a kindergarten class to see what these teachers do.

As to your second question, I wouldn't worry about this much unless your son is very shy or prefers to play alone. Kids that age will pick up other languages fast, and don't necessarily depend on language alone to play.

Your son will definitely benefit from the cultural interaction! Kids are usually very adaptable, and as I said, can pick up other languages very easily that age. A friend of mine has a nephew who started in a French kindergarten (in the US--the entire day was conducted in French to English-only students), and he did just fine. My husband spent time in a German (Waldorf-inspired) preschool, and was able to pick up quite a bit at the time.

Don't worry!

[savithny]

Do all the kids who are not English speakers speak the same other language?

My son's school has a very significant minority of ESL students. They come from all over the world because the school is in a neighborhood where a lot of international students and faculty live. My son was in the ESL Kindergarten section and is currently in the ESL 2nd grade (they concentrate the ESL kids in one or two sections for ease with pullouts and ESL aide work).

I'd say it was definitely not a drawback and was very probably a benefit to him. The ESL sections actually get a lot more aide help than the non-ESL, so the teacher-student ratio was generally better than in the non-ESL classes. And the way the teacher ran the class, he did not (to my mind, when I was visiting or volunteering) get less attention.

Socially, he did fine, and made friends from nearly every continent and learned words in several languages (unfortunately, most of the words were probably variations on the verb "to fart," but hey!)

Our situation was a bit different in that the ESL children made up about 1/2 of the class, rather than the majority of the class, but I know that for us the ESL thing was a positive thing. I was *glad* when I saw that DS was in an ESL section this year.

[reina28]

Originally Posted by savithny

Do all the kids who are not English speakers speak the same other language?

Yes, all the other kids are Hispanic - I am not sure if they all speak the same dialect but they all speak Spanish. I know Spanish and have been teaching my son bits at a time to help ease this transition as well and just because I think it is a very valuable asset in today's world.

Originally Posted by savithny

Socially, he did fine, and made friends from nearly every continent and learned words in several languages (unfortunately, most of the words were probably variations on the verb "to fart," but hey!)

The kindergarten class as a whole is split into three. there is an all day kindergarten for those that need the most help learning English and learning their alphabet. That teacher is bilingual. The other two are half day classes and only one of those teachers does not speak Spanish so I believe (due to the majority of Spanish speaking students) my son will automatically be placed with the non-Spanish speaking teacher. But I definitely want to make sure that this does not place my son in a class with only the other white, non-ESL students because of the teacher's inability. I don't want him to be separated that way...I believe that would be more harmful to him than being in a class with only ESL students.

[Flor]

I teach middle school ESL, but in addition, my stepson was at a school that was majority English learner. I taught at a different school that was about 1/3 English learner. I actually thought he had better reading instruction at his school because there was such a need. My class was the usual reading groups, his school had different curriculums for different levels, computer-based enrichment programs, tutors, small groups, etc. Socially he was fine when he was younger. It did get more difficult as he got older (9 and 10) as the kids started to divide themselves up more by ethnicity and language. (Our family is 1/2 Mexican and 1/2 white American, but dss doesn't speak Spanish).

My concern would be that at my school (now a different school about 1/2 English Learner) we really do focus mostly on reading and math because those are the areas where are studens are tested and where they are failing. I imagine that a school with higher test scores would focus on a more well-rounded education. For example, (it's middle schools so the example doesn't quite fit) my students have no electives because our school is so focused on English and math. At dss's school new school (1/4 EL) they have two electives each day. Money and time in my school goes to math and English, while social studies, art, music, and science are seen as less important.

[mammastar2]

When you say English is not their primary language, do you know that they are actually ESL students, who are learning English?

I know that in our system the way it is measured leaves many kids who are quite fluent in English being counted as "primary language other than English." In fact, my daughter was in kindergarten, simply because her dad speaks to her at home in a language other than English, but she's totally fluent. Lots of her friends at school probably are counted as non-English as a primary language, but it's really only the parents who have some difficulty communicating.

[reina28]

mammastar2 I actually do not know that of course. But I do know that all the students will be tested before they start school and those tests are what will determine which class they will be placed in. I am pleased with that because it will avoid exactly what you are speaking of - just assuming a child can't speak English because their families are not native speakers.

[mommy68]

One of my children was in a class that had a hispanic child in it that year and the child came in speaking no English whatsoever (2nd gr) and by December of that year he was speaking pretty good English. I think it would all even out. You said your child is one of three kids that already speak English right? The younger the child is the faster they learn.

[Flor]

Originally Posted by mammastar2

When you say English is not their primary language, do you know that they are actually ESL students, who are learning English?

I know that in our system the way it is measured leaves many kids who are quite fluent in English being counted as "primary language other than English." In fact, my daughter was in kindergarten, simply because her dad speaks to her at home in a language other than English, but she's totally fluent. Lots of her friends at school probably are counted as non-English as a primary language, but it's really only the parents who have some difficulty communicating.

That's a good point. In California there is a "home language" survey as part of school registration that asks "What was the child's first langague? What language does the child use most frequently in the home? What language do the adults in the house use with each other?" If any of those answers are anything other than English the child takes an English test (CELDT). If they pass, they are "English Proficient" if they don't, they are "English Learners." The test can be difficult so that even a child who speaks English perfectly can still be called an English learner if they aren't reading/writing at grade level (therefore it is easiest to get redesignated in kindy and first grade since "grade level" is easier to achieve).

Though the children haven't been tested yet, the school should know roughly what percentage of English Learners they have. In our schools that is part of the public "report card" of testing information. Have you sat in on any classes? It may be perfectly fine, but you may also find that if the percentage of English Learners is really high, that most of the school day is spent on English and math. Personally, I prefer a curriculum with social studies, etc. There are some schools around here that literally have dropped social studies and science (and art and music) in the early grades because they need to get their English/math scores up.

[`guest`]

My sisters and I grew up in predominantly Spanish speaking schools. It was never an issue in our future learning. My little sisters became fluent in Spanish, unfortunately as they grew older they forgot most of it. I never felt like there was a problem with the language difference, in fact it was an enriching factor for us.