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used to feel homebirth was best... but not anymore - Page 7

post #121 of 246
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThreeBeans View Post
Having been through severe PPD myself, I know just how illogical it can make a person.
Now now, would you be suggesting that she is illogical due to PPD if she were a homebirth supporter instead? ................just saying.........be nice people! :
post #122 of 246
Quote:
Originally Posted by pannacotta View Post
but my OP was to point out that please be *aware* by reading about a personal experience that there are some things you have a much greater chance of surviving in a hospital. ...

if you chose HB with a fully open brain, knowing why you chose this, knowing all the issues on the table, then it's a conscious choice.

choosing HB because of 'studies that "show" HB is safer" ... is another matter.
I think the problem is that you see those two things as contradictory. They're not. Homebirth can be as safe/safer than hospital birth overall AND there can be some things that you have a greater chance of surviving in a hospital. Yes, there are things that can happen without warning and result in death at home, where if you were in a hospital there would be at least a chance at life. When you planned your homebirth, was that not something you thought about?

My understanding of how hospitals work, and the available evidence and studies, leads me to believe that in the real world of real hospitals, the chance of a catastrophic event resulting in a homebirth death is not any higher than the chance of dying during childbirth in a hospital.

I can understand your perspective. If something happens to you, statistics don't mean anything. You were safer in the hospital. If you were still at home, you believe there's 100% chance that you would have died. But that doesn't mean that somehow hospital birth is always safer than homebirth, or that if all homebirthers choose to birth in the hospital instead that there would be fewer deaths. You can't generalize from one person's extremely rare experience, or we could all start making plans based on winning the lottery.
post #123 of 246
Quote:
Originally Posted by pannacotta View Post
i'm writing this - and it's been very difficult to write it, i'm still suffering from the effects of this birth and i hate to say what i feel i should say about homebirth but having been so close to death i am not the person i was and so aware of how such an event can happen to anyone. i suppose i'm trying to say look beyond the statistics of 'what is safe in 99% of cases' and think would you be comfortable with the consequences on you or your family if that 1% chance happens to you.
Here's the problem with this kind of thinking: yes, there is a 1% chance that something will happen that will be horribly dangerous at home. I could choose to go to a hospital, but then I will up my chance exponentially that something horrible will happen. I've had two hospital births - they were pretty uneventful comparatively. However, I have seen how quickly something minor can be blown out of proportion at a hospital. I've had to live with those consequences, and the guilt is horrible. I'd rather take my 99% that everything will turn out great at home.

I'm sure someone else has said something similar, but I don't have time to read everything! And no, I think you should be able to express your opinion even if others disagree with it. I'm sorry you had such a scary experience, and I'm glad you came through it okay. I'm very glad you listened to your intuition.
post #124 of 246
Quote:
Originally Posted by the_lissa View Post
No one has attacked you. Disagreement does not equal attacks.
Calling her view a "scare tactic" is a little agressive though? :
post #125 of 246
Oh also since someone, probably pannacotta, asked for sources ~ I highly recommend going to a library (preferably a University library) and browsing their section on childbirth in the 1800's through 1960's. Look for Michel Odent, look for Dr. Grantley Dick-Read. Look for Ina May Gaskin (also featured in this month's Mothering ). Look for Jeannine Parvati-Baker. Look for books about women's conditions of home and family / childbirth in the 1850's through 1950's. Read until your eyes are bloodshot.

There is so much evidence out there that hospital birth is just not as safe as delivering at home and on your own terms, at present and historically, and the reasons behind this.
post #126 of 246
I don't know. Scare tactic is neutral. It is not an attack. I think disregarding the safety of home births because of the off chance that something can happen when being at the hospital can be just as likely to cause a problem is a scare tactic.
post #127 of 246
Every woman has to decide for herself where and how she is most comfortable birthing. Insisting that everyone birth just like you, despite the preponderance of evidence to the contrary, is not logical. I think the OP is coming from a place of fear, depression, and grief and I hope she heals soon.
post #128 of 246
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThreeBeans View Post
Every woman has to decide for herself where and how she is most comfortable birthing. Insisting that everyone birth just like you, despite the preponderance of evidence to the contrary, is not logical. I think the OP is coming from a place of fear, depression, and grief and I hope she heals soon.
ITA.
post #129 of 246
Quote:
Originally Posted by aprilgurlie View Post
would you be suggesting that she is illogical due to PPD if she were a homebirth supporter instead?
It's not the homebirth vs hospital birth that is making the OP illogical. PPD can occur after birth, no matter where that birth takes place.

The op's idea that she would have died at home = everyone belongs in a hospital for birth -- AND the idea that hospitals will take birth plans and laboring mothers seriously, or that we need a complete system overhaul -- is what makes the op illogical.
post #130 of 246
sorry if any of this is a repeat as I don't have time to read all of the pages of responses right now but I really want to respond while I'm going off my first impression.

I'm not angry at you at all *BUT*

your
post
makes
absolutely
no
sense
to
me
at
all.
at.
all.

First of all, you are expressing realistic concerns about risks associated with homebirth in one hand and completely ignoring the risks associated with hospital birth in the other hand. For every one mother/baby that is saved because she chose hospital birth, another mother/baby will die because she chose hospital birth. Bottom line - some babies born at home would have been better off born at the hospital. Some babies born at the hospital would have been better off at home. And on to top of that, there are additional risks beyond mortality associated with hospital birth so even if a mother/baby does not die, the mother/baby have higher risk for experiencing some traumatic events at the hospital and that counts for something too. You can't just ignore that which you clearly have done in your OP.

Second of all, you showed one of the prime examples of why homebirth is so safe. Women are much more easily able to follow their own instincts without interference and they are much more likely to realize when there is a problem. Which you did. Hospital transfer is a very realistic option in almost all homebirths but transfering from hospital to home once they have imposed unnecessary risks upon you and your baby is almost impossible.

Third...name one single thing that would have been different about your birth had you chosen planned hospital birth? This is the most baffling part of your entire post. Maybe what you really think is that planning a homebirth and staying at home even when a problem arises is less safe than choosing hospital birth from the get go. Did I get that right?
post #131 of 246
i am glad that you posted since it seems that you needed it. however your feelings seem to be based on your obviously traumatic experience and you are sort of blinded by it to the realities of childbirth.
i hope you find peace and are able to heal and one day see this without the blinders of fear.
post #132 of 246
Quote:
Oh also since someone, probably pannacotta, asked for sources ~ I highly recommend going to a library (preferably a University library) and browsing their section on childbirth in the 1800's through 1960's.
The following books were recommended to me and now I recommend them to others. I don't think it is possible to think the same way about hospital birth after reading them:

From Midwives to Medicine: The Birth of American Gynecology
by Deborah Kuhn McGregor, Rutgers University Press, 1998

Lying In: A History of Childbirth in America, by Dorothy Wertz and Robert Wertz, Yale University Press, 1977

Brought to Bed: Childbearing in America 1750-1950, by Judith Walzer Leavitt, Oxford University Press, 1998

Birth as an American Rite of Passage, by Robbie Floyd-Davis, Uni. of California Press, 2nd. ed. 2004
post #133 of 246
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThreeBeans View Post
Every woman has to decide for herself where and how she is most comfortable birthing. Insisting that everyone birth just like you, despite the preponderance of evidence to the contrary, is not logical. I think the OP is coming from a place of fear, depression, and grief and I hope she heals soon.
you said it much better than i.
post #134 of 246
Thanks to those who are trying to keep this discussion friendly

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post #135 of 246
Well, I doubt that she will be posting anymore, since when she did share her feelings on the topic, she got pounced on. Whether you were all just "disagreeing" or not, having so many people refute your feelings at once just deflates a person.

I think that when anyone's freedom to speak feels inhibited because of something like this, it is a tiny tragedy all in it's own. You all have good reasons for disagreeing. But can you understand that the way you say it can seem like an attack?

I have no beef with any of you here. I would just love to see MDC a little more open to differing opinions, as I said in an earlier post. Let us tread lightly with our words.

Peace out everyone, I am goin to bed!!
post #136 of 246
Quote:
Originally Posted by aprilgurlie View Post
I think that when anyone's freedom to speak feels inhibited because of something like this, it is a tiny tragedy all in it's own.
Isn't EVERYONE entitled to their own opinion? Or only the dissenting opinion?
post #137 of 246
I feel pretty lucky to live in a town where I can have a midwife-attended birth, complete with birthing ball, birthing chair, whirlpool, and whatever experience I want... and yet have it in a hospital.

I'm a first-time mother over 40, and there's no way I would want to do this at home, 15 minutes or so from a hospital. I have friends who have done home births and many women in my family have done home births (due to poverty, not preference). Only one ended up in the hospital, as she had seizures during the birth. So it isn't that I don't know about it, or that it can be safe. However, none of them were my age at a first birth, and the women in my family didn't actually have a choice.

I'm glad I can choose the type of birth I want, but with a SWAT team there, just in case.

To the OP, I hope your recovery goes smoothly. It sounds like you had quite a rough time.
post #138 of 246
This is the birth forum.

There are very few places in the world and on the net where a mother can speak positive things about homebirth.

I hope the OP rests and recovers from her traumatic birth. Having a baby is a joy but it can be traumatic also, and all mothers need to know that each birth is what it is and grow in life from the experience it is.
post #139 of 246
I should add that I have in fact had a hospital birth that saved my life and that of my child.

I have also had a hospital birth that needlessly endangered the life of another child.

And I have had a beautiful, peaceful homebirth.

So I have a broad range of experiences from which to draw my own conclusions
post #140 of 246
Quote:
Originally Posted by pannacotta View Post
but i'm also meeting a wall of silence, of 'we don't want to consider anything different from what we believe' which i frankly didn't expect from MC.
Well, no. It's not a matter of not considering anything we don't believe, it's that you haven't provided any facts to back up your "belief" of what is safer. The beliefs that "we" are unwilling to give up are based solidly in facts and research.


Quote:
i'm hearing that 'if i bleed i'll go to the hospital' , (what if no time)
I was in a situation where there was "no time." I was bleeding, but internally, and I didn't know it. We high-tailed it to the hospital, and my son was born dead but resuscitated. My being in the hospital beforehand is a moot issue, because I was only 32 weeks pregnant. I was at home. It was a dire, sudden, and unexpected emergency, yet transferring to the hospital from home (and not via ambulance, BTW) did not kill me. The number of emergencies that occur during prenancy and/or childbirth that require intervention within a few minutes are so small as to be statistically insignificant. I think that's why you're getting so much feedback about this.



Quote:
i'm going to stop now, this is getting upsetting as it's veered into attacks.
I'm sorry you're upset by this, but I haven't seen a single post attacking you. Sometimes when you're so emotionally invested in something, the discussion can seem a little personal.
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