oh! oh! i am hopping mad. and sad.

[sunbaby]

please tell me i (and my kid) will be ok. pls remind us we will find the right situation for him. i just had the most bummer conversation with a prospective preschool teacher. i am feeling so discouraged. heres the story:

she and i have been playing phone tag. i am interested in visiting her school for my 3yo son for the fall enrollment. she only has one spot left. the other three schools i want to send him are full for the fall with waiting lists already.
tonight we finall reach one another. early in the conversation, she tells me she doesnt enlist on a first come first serve basis, rather chooses the kids she will enroll, so even though there are three families scheduled to visit ahead of ours, we still might end up with priority. then she asks me about my kid and our family. and i am honest. he isnt easy breezy. he has spent a year at a montessori schoool, because that worked for him. but i dont want him there next year. i dont want the academics, or the tv happy peers. his older sister goes to a waldorf school and has all her life, and that works for us. we want him in a waldorf environment.

after i tell her this stuff, she says i can call her on thursday and see if she still has a spot. wth? i feel like after i honestly told her our situation, she screened us out, and it really hurts. it feels cliquish. and i think it reeks. i think my kid didnt sound easy enough. and i feel scared i will have to either keep him out of school or expose him to more of the junk hes had this year. (i am not calling MONTESSORI junk, just some of the stuff hes dealt with at this particular school)

heres all the stuff i d like to say to this darn screening teacher:
i dont even want your dumb aplication. you screen out the tough kids to make yourself look good and appear to do a good a job, but its a smokescreen. a good educator doesnt have to pick the easiest kids. you dont want my kid because hes been at a montessori school and so we must not be waldorf enough for you but heres all the stuff you dont know because i dint know i was auditioning- my husband is a biodynamic farmer. we havent had a tv for 5 years. we dont vaccinate and yes, we had the pertussis that went throught the waldorf schools here three years ago,and nope, we never treated it with antibiotics even though i and my dd coughed untill we barfed every night for few weeks. we (tryed to) homebirth our breech baby. our dds old preschool teacher, your good friend, regularly complimented us on our 'good' parenting, and told us we'd 'done a lovely job' with her. we have taken waldorf parenting classes from infancy on and we are currently looking to buy a few acres where we can garden and raise sheep to eat and goats to milk and our car is biodiesel, and um, what other truths can i drum up, but are we good enough for you yet?

darn. why do i even care. seriously i dont want any part of her cliquish "am i waldorf enough for thou?" school. but i DO want my son in a quality school and i dont know how to get that for him.

[Boot]

I don't really have any advice but I noticed that no-one's replied yet so I just wanted to offer support.

Hopefully you misread the situation and you will still get your chance at that last spot. When you phone on Thursday could you ask to visit and be kept on a waiting list even if that spot has gone? I highly doubt she thinks you are not Waldorf enough if your older child is in Waldorf. Good luck.

[heket]

Can I suggest a glance at this thread?
http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=683104

[Hannahsmummy]

Originally Posted by heket

Can I suggest a glance at this thread?
http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=683104

Wow, very helpful.

To the OP, I hear your frustration. We went through a lot to get my daughter into our school. I won't go into the long story here though.

I will say that it's possible that it's been a miscommunication. I don't know the school or the teacher but it doesn't sound like anything that you said was a red flag in any way.
I'm not sure how this particular school works but at ours, the teacher is not the final decision maker. He/She will have a lot of say but they still need to take it to the college to decide.
All I can suggest is that if this is something you really want, fight for it.
Your son is only 3 years old, does he NEED to be in school now? Do the schools that you are considering have parent and child groups that you could join? Quite often priority is given to kids who's parents are already involved in the school.
Is he on the waiting lists?
If it were me, which I realize it's not and only you know your situation, I'd get on all the lists, get into a parent and child group and if necessary not send him to school until he has a place. In our school the person who is involved and makes themselves very well known is the one who gets what they want.

[pixiewytch]

PP gives great advice. I don't think I would want to start paying tuition at 3 anyway, kwim? DS is six and goes to waldorf and I take my one year old to the parent child playgroup where there are quite a few three year olds. If he hasn't even been in waldorf yet that might be a better transition anyway. Don't fret, you still have time.

It makes me sad how competitive I hear some of these schools are. I know we don't have waiting lists and competition like that, probably because our school is still earlier in inception, not in a waldorf popular area, and in need of more enrollment anyway. I just thank my lucky stars I haven't had that sort of stress to get my kids involved. The cliqueish feel would be a huge frustration and turn off for me too if it were the case.

[sunbaby]

thanks for replys. i really appreciate that someone is willing to hear me and express caring. that is a gift. this gratitude is editied in because i just posted the stuff that follows and realized i am being a little hot headed as i am still hurting, but i now need to slow down and really take in the caring that was shared,
(even though that doesnt mean i am changing my mind a bout what i said below.)
. yes, he needs to go to school even though he is young. one, i work. two, i used to think 'oh, i am certainly not sending my kids to school before they are four', but honestly, both my kids are outgoing kids who have really benefitted from preschool, and a key component in my desicion to send them at the age of two was that they really seemed to need and crave it.

its not a big school i was trying to get into with classes and such, just a home prechool. my son is secured a spot at our local free charter waldorf school once he is in k, because his sister attends and siblings have priority.

and, i guess im not going to keep trying on this particular preschool, because honestly, just like any clique, it feels like everything is on the up and up to the people who are IN, but its those who are outsiders who see how bogus it really is. i dont want to be a part of that. i dont want to audition myself and my kid like its some modeling agency im trying to get him into. i know from all my experience with dd # one, that there are enough good waldorf preschools out there that i dont need to feed this one, i just really hoped for the best because its one of the last ones with a spot coming up.

i will check the personal growth thread. thanks for the link. i am sorta mixed about it, didnt read much yet, but was around when all the waldorf questioning and crticism was going around and (taking over) this forum. i definately am on to look critically at anything, and waldorf has not escaped my scrutiny, and yet, i am not really a 'life after waldorf'er, as dd is clearly doing well and benefitting from waldorf education. i think, like all things, there are positives and negatives here.
i also think that this ''selection process'' is not necessarily a waldorf thing per se, just some teachers way of keeping her job easier and making herself look good, because such nice kids come from her school, and its just because they were nice to begin with. i guess this could happen within any educational philosophy?

thankyou all agian for reading. you guys are sweet.

[pumpkinyum]

Originally Posted by sunbaby

please tell me i (and my kid) will be ok. pls remind us we will find the right situation for him. i just had the most bummer conversation with a prospective preschool teacher. i am feeling so discouraged. heres the story:

she and i have been playing phone tag. i am interested in visiting her school for my 3yo son for the fall enrollment. she only has one spot left. the other three schools i want to send him are full for the fall with waiting lists already.
tonight we finall reach one another. early in the conversation, she tells me she doesnt enlist on a first come first serve basis, rather chooses the kids she will enroll, so even though there are three families scheduled to visit ahead of ours, we still might end up with priority. then she asks me about my kid and our family. and i am honest. he isnt easy breezy. he has spent a year at a montessori schoool, because that worked for him. but i dont want him there next year. i dont want the academics, or the tv happy peers. his older sister goes to a waldorf school and has all her life, and that works for us. we want him in a waldorf environment.

after i tell her this stuff, she says i can call her on thursday and see if she still has a spot. wth? i feel like after i honestly told her our situation, she screened us out, and it really hurts. it feels cliquish. and i think it reeks. i think my kid didnt sound easy enough. and i feel scared i will have to either keep him out of school or expose him to more of the junk hes had this year. (i am not calling MONTESSORI junk, just some of the stuff hes dealt with at this particular school)

heres all the stuff i d like to say to this darn screening teacher:
i dont even want your dumb aplication. you screen out the tough kids to make yourself look good and appear to do a good a job, but its a smokescreen. a good educator doesnt have to pick the easiest kids. you dont want my kid because hes been at a montessori school and so we must not be waldorf enough for you but heres all the stuff you dont know because i dint know i was auditioning- my husband is a biodynamic farmer. we havent had a tv for 5 years. we dont vaccinate and yes, we had the pertussis that went throught the waldorf schools here three years ago,and nope, we never treated it with antibiotics even though i and my dd coughed untill we barfed every night for few weeks. we (tryed to) homebirth our breech baby. our dds old preschool teacher, your good friend, regularly complimented us on our 'good' parenting, and told us we'd 'done a lovely job' with her. we have taken waldorf parenting classes from infancy on and we are currently looking to buy a few acres where we can garden and raise sheep to eat and goats to milk and our car is biodiesel, and um, what other truths can i drum up, but are we good enough for you yet?

darn. why do i even care. seriously i dont want any part of her cliquish "am i waldorf enough for thou?" school. but i DO want my son in a quality school and i dont know how to get that for him.

I'm sorry about the problems you are having, but she did tell you that she did not work on a first come, first serve basis, and that she would choose who she wanted--and you went into the interview after that knowing that.

And I'm curious...are you really so strongly against antibiotics that you wouldn't let your child take them even if she was puking for weeks???

[runes]

Originally Posted by pumpkinyum

And I'm curious...are you really so strongly against antibiotics that you wouldn't let your child take them even if she was puking for weeks???

antibiotics don't help with pertussis anyway so the question is moot.

sunbaby... and i hope that you are able to find an optimal school situation for your ds.

[Eben'sMama]

I'm sorry this happened to you guys, but I believe that everything happens for a reason, so it's probably a blessing in disguise that this happened--it just means that something better is on its way. I'd make sure he's on the wait lists at the other schools and sit back and wait to see how things unfold. I know it still hurts to feel rejected or excluded, though...

[pumpkinyum]

Originally Posted by kidspiration

antibiotics don't help with pertussis anyway so the question is moot.

sunbaby... and i hope that you are able to find an optimal school situation for your ds.

antibiotics do help with pertussis, not sure where you get your info.

Ok, so I guess my real question is how does all of the above make you more Waldorf-y? I was starting to consider a waldorf school for 5 yr old dd, but the more I read, the more confused I get.

[sunbaby]

yeah pumpkinyum, she did tellme that, and we did go straight into a conversation from there before i had time to really think about it and i sorta just fell into conversation getting to know you style, and i didnt really think it was all going to be considered an interview. i guess i am just naturally honest and open and trusting. in this situation, big oops. and knowing someone is a certain way doesnt necessarily mean that their choices wont hurt right? like if you happened to have curly hair, and you were attracted to someone who you knew didnt like curly hair, it still might hurt a bit when they reject you right?

but like pp said, this probably leaves me open for a better situation anyway. i totally agree with you ebens mama, everything happens for a reason. another way i like to put it is 'where i am is where im meant to be'.

regarding pertussis and antibiotics, they can only help if you get them within the first three weeks of exposure. by the time you are coughing so hard you're barfing, you are probably well past time to take antibiotics, but it usually has to come to that point before you even know you have pertussis. conventional md's usually want you take antibiotics anyway, because, well, it makes them feel less helpless, and MAY help prevent the ilness spreading to others (we stayed home for two months) but in my opinion, antibiotics open the already very sick individual up to more complications and problems by further compromising an already hurting system.

and yes, the way you approach illness is a waldorf issue. and of course, there is a spectrum, but at least in our area, waldorf schools are really supportive if you dont vaccinate, shy away from antibiotics unless needed for life saving, and let a fever run its course without tylenol and whatnot. not that they'll reject you if you take a more western med approach, just the view i have been exposed to again and again on this topic is that these conventional drugs are damaging to the child, and that the illness serves a purpose. i happen to agree. my dd, having had pertussis, was weakened and more susceptible to coughs for a full year. but since then, a miracle has occurred. her 'childhood asthma' has dissappeared, and i know having had pertussis, as well as riding out a major ear infection fever of 103 for 4 days, is the reason she is so healthy now. god bless waldorf. i was so thankful dd was at a school that was supportive of the choices i was making with the support of my naturopath, because everywhere else i got grief.

[pixiewytch]

Originally Posted by pumpkinyum

antibiotics do help with pertussis, not sure where you get your info.

Ok, so I guess my real question is how does all of the above make you more Waldorf-y? I was starting to consider a waldorf school for 5 yr old dd, but the more I read, the more confused I get.

To answer your question about being "waldorfy enough", the problem lies with these schools that have very limited spaces and lots of competition. I think parents do start to feel the need to be a certain way and the teachers are probably more scrutinous with family lifestyles when they can only take so many kids.

However, not all schools are like this. Our school is not so exclusive with limited spaces that parents are competing to get in. Yes, all schools require home visits and questions about your lifestyle, especially in regards to media, but some are less swayed by that than others. We have plenty of families in our school with tvs and not so waldorfy lifestyles.

[Kindermama]

Originally Posted by pixiewytch

However, not all schools are like this. Our school is not so exclusive with limited spaces that parents are competing to get in. Yes, all schools require home visits and questions about your lifestyle, especially in regards to media, but some are less swayed by that than others. We have plenty of families in our school with tvs and not so waldorfy lifestyles.

Ditto! I keep reading about all these horror stories about Waldorf School esp. from the thread above. We have been through the whole enrollment process and our kids are set to start in the fall. We initially had some concerns but they all were calmed as we visited many many times during the process & got to know the teachers & faculty. Our local school does not discriminate families for not being "waldorfy" enough. There wasn't even a hint of that. I never felt I had to prove my holistic-ness to anyone at the school and it was never brought up outside of the application I filled out. We are certainly not a 100% "waldorfy" and my son is currently in a Montessori school. Our application reflected that too. Our school is definitely not "all or nothing"


To the OP, I'm sorry you feel slighted. Perhaps you can call her and communicate your feelings to her directly. Maybe there was a misunderstanding and if not, then your voice counts in defense of other parents.

[pinecone]

Originally Posted by pixiewytch

Yes, all schools require home visits and questions about your lifestyle, especially in regards to media, but some are less swayed by that than others.

Not so. We did not have a home interview. Nor did we discuss our lifestyle issues. Our (mid-year) enrollment discussion was more the enrollment coordinator telling us what their philosophy was. It just so happened that these things mirrored our values (natural foods, no media, lots of exposure to nature/outdoors, etc.) And the only reason we even considered Waldorf is because DD was unhappy at our Montessori school. (No 4yo should hate
school.) And we did not get any of our top 3 public school enrollment choices. At first I was terribly disappointed about this, but in the course of finding and enrolling in our Waldorf school I ultimately decided we were led here by some greater force. It has absolutely been the best thing for our family.

[JoyAnne]

Originally Posted by sunbaby

i also think that this ''selection process'' is not necessarily a waldorf thing per se, just some teachers way of keeping her job easier and making herself look good, because such nice kids come from her school, and its just because they were nice to begin with. i guess this could happen within any educational philosophy?

Hi sunbaby- I was just reading your post and thinking about our early childhood program. I am on the board and thus I am learning about this process from both sides- volunteer board member and parent. I thus know that our teacher is selecting the children who will make up her class next fall with great care and concern for the "whole" of the class- based on age, gender, previous experiences, and really her belief about what is best for this group. I am in the midst of that process right now. I am relieved that she is taking that time and concern and surely hope my son will be part of it. Our school is one of the few in our town that doesn't simply admit on a first come first serve first check that clears basis!

Maybe the teacher in your town is also thinking of these things? Or maybe it is as you think- she is trying to make her job easier at the expense of your family. If so, I would guess you wouldn't want your son there anyway. I don't really understand how all the business about cliques is relevant to this one interaction with the teacher- obviously this is a more complex issue for you than one interview, but I just wanted to share my perspective on how things work in my community.

[runes]

Originally Posted by pumpkinyum

antibiotics do help with pertussis, not sure where you get your info.

ummm...scientific research. and you?

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15674946

the conclusion:

Antibiotics are effective in eliminating B. pertussis from patients with the disease, rendering them non-infectious, but do not alter the subsequent clinical course of the illness.

bolding mine

sunbaby...despite being disappointed (and rightfully so), i really admire your attitude about the entire situation and your ability to maintain a positive outlook.

[majick1]

Originally Posted by kidspiration

ummm...scientific research. and you?

I'm with you! It wouldn't have been antibiotics here!

[treefolk]

I'm sorry you are having a rough time sunbaby!!

Maybe I read the original post wrong, but was the response of the teacher just to say that she will get back to? Maybe she had other interviews and would decide on that date. Did she say she was not accepting your child because he was not easy enough? Or you were not Waldorf-y enough (whatever that means)? Or because he went to Montessori? I know I can get very worked up about things and let them cloud the actual reality. It is not fair to the teacher or yourself to make an assumptions without making sure that was her intention. I was not there for the conversation, though.....

I think in life you have to act the way you would like others to. Making laundry lists of how Waldorfy one's family is only perpetuates that there is a "us" and "them" and someone out there is judging. I believe this is projecting our own insecurites or need for approval onto someone else that is an easy target. The fact that Waldorf education is considered an alternative method, naturally brings together families who are strong willed and opinated (this is not a negative quality imho) and that is bound to push buttons. We must remeber to take steps back every once in awhile.

There are problems in EVERY school. I find Waldorf gts a bad rap because when ther is an issue it always seems to turn so angry and then drags other stuff in. If you don't lke the way things are - do something. Get in there and learn why they have chosen this method of admissions into the school. If this is still upsets you, go through the levels of that school and if you get nowhere - then absolutly the school is not for you. But realize, others may have a terrific experience there and leave it at that.

[emmaegbert]

Oh I totally sympathize. I am a full-time student, who needs some childcare, but really wants my kid in a loving, child-centered place that will reflect our own values, and nurture our son and honor his nature: not-so-easy-going, but smart, creative and vibrant. We are applying to 2 Waldorf schools and at least 2 Montessori (and on the waitlist for a third), for my 3yo son. The whole process make me very cynical, as you will easily be able to tell from this long post.

I am pretty sure we got "rejected" from the ONE Montessori school we could walk/bike to because I asked about financial aid. We have one vehicle for our family, and for practical as well as financial and ethical reasons, I would prefer not to be using it all the time. Anyhow, my hopes are dashed for biking to school as we do now (too bad the school he is at has never really been quite right for him).

Now, though I think my family is probably "waldorfy" enough to pass muster (and "montessori" enough too, he does all his practical life stuff at home), we are NOT rich enough for these schools. We can't really afford them. And I feel sure that they look at us as bad prospects, b/c its quite obvious that we are not going to be donating money-- as it is we will barely able to scrape up the tuition (using my student loans as a major source to pay it). So, I am not all that hopeful that we'll get a spot. I do think my son would love it, which is why I bother, despite being obviously embittered just from the ADMISSIONS process!

This whole situation drives me completely nuts. The way you have to beg and plead for admission to places, all the while thinking, why would I send my kid somewhere if they don't want us?? If our family is not up to snuff (for whatever reason)?? But then, the other options are just so crappy. (like, "movie friday" at the university-run daycare facility...)

Why should having a loving, creative, and gentle daily life for our children outside the home be a luxury for the wealthy (or otherwise worthy), not, say, something we would assume is available to all children! \